SAM your in a world of your own now, like moon hoax conspiracy theorist, the evidence is huge and all you got left is nitpicking on irrelevant points like if it has audio or not.
Zionist piracy
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SAM your in a world of your own now, like moon hoax conspiracy theorist, the evidence is huge and all you got left is nitpicking on irrelevant points like if it has audio or not.
And that question is?
SAM,
This issue is the raid, not the blockade, stay on topic. If you want to start a thread about ending the blockade I would love to argue on it.
What evidence? Israel shut off live feed and provided their own "videos" after the fact, with people walking through iron. If they are not afraid let them release the activists media equipment. Until the Israelis release all the activist media and equipment, the "evidence" is all fake. In any court of law, the chain of evidence is tainted if the accused has the opportunity to manipulate it.
They attacked civilians in international waters. Thats illegal. If its hard to see Israel in that light, just think of Iranian revolutionary guards boarding US ships in the Persian Gulf in international waters. What was your opinion of that incident?
Frankly, I can't say that I can distinguish the sounds of those shots from paintball guns. The latter should certainly be relatively quieter, but how much quieter isn't certain. I will say that - yes - they actually do sound a lot like paintball guns. I can almost hear that bloody sloppy clak as the bolt comes back. There's also no richochets. Of course, there's no way to say that the shots are actually even being generated by the IDF. And at 0:29 the one guy claims they "attacked with knives"! Really? When in the course of the attack is he speaking? I hear the one fellow mentioning tear gas and stun grenades, but not gunshots. I do hear lots and lots of firing about 6:00 - paintguns. You can hear them quite clearly over the ship and wave sounds, which seems to fit with the impression of paintball guns being used in the first part of the vid.
Starting about 2:22, the overlay for the vids goes off about what kind of Zodiacs were used - I rebutted above, which Sam has not commented back on. Most of the commentary amounts to unethical and deliberate misinterpretation of events; sort of fortuitous gabble. "A was happening here, but not in this part of the vid, therefore B" and so forth.
Mystery solved.
I've already fisked that one extensively above.
It's more that the evidence cited so far supports the IDF version of events; yet, it is called 'shocking' and 'astounding'. If that's an example of good support for your stance, then your stance has no real support. Sorry.
Israel's existence depends on an unsupported assertion - that modern-day Israel is the "homeland" of European Jews.
There is little historical evidence for the continuous occupation of Palestine by Europeans, hence all the mythology, lies and "holy crap" we keep hearing.
Jews may deny it, but Israel is now mostly disliked or "hated" by everyone else in the world, so how well is the Jewish myth playing out? Is the country going to ignore international opinion (oh, wait...) and carry on with its mistaken ideology, as if everyone else's opinion doesn't matter? You would think Israelis don't give a fuck, or something.
There is little historical evidence for the continuous occupation of Palestine by Europeans, hence all the mythology, lies and "holy crap" we keep hearing.
Jews may deny it, but Israel is now mostly disliked or "hated" by everyone else in the world, so how well is the Jewish myth playing out? Is the country going to ignore international opinion (oh, wait...) and carry on with its mistaken ideology, as if everyone else's opinion doesn't matter? You would think Israelis don't give a fuck, or something.
So you stipulate to my points above? Fair enough.
As to why and what - I don't know. I don't even know that there are videos showing the nine people killed. (The part about the six bodies is an assumption of yours.) But you already know my points above. Why ask this now?
What I'd like to see is an Israeli video in which I can see the faces of the IDF, since the Turks published the pictures, we can see how authentic the video is if we can recognise the same faces there. For some strange reason, the faces of the Israelis are not visible in their videos. Think you can find one?
The activist group has put up their video on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwsMJmvS0AY
The activist group has put up their video on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwsMJmvS0AY
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So, NASA was the only ones controlling the feed from the moon landings to, what your point?
Again this is an optical illusion caused by the pants and the "iron" being the same color and it being a digital recording. It makes no sense that a fake video would be made via a green screen with a ship pasted on background when they could have much more easily and more realistically made the video ON THE SHIP post capturing it, shit they could have made it on any ship for way cheaper and better realism.
That does not prove Israeli videos are fake, it merely suggest the israel is only showing the videos that are most flattering to them.
This is called a Division fallacy, in which the whole is equated to its parts and vis versa. In such the whole of the evidence may be in question because israel is only releasing what they want, but that does not mean each part (each video) is also manipulated, that pushes the bounds of plausibility several times now with you going into kooks vill and concocting elaborate scenarios where the videos are green-screened, explosions were CGI, and actions are questioned out of ignorance.
This is not a court of law and the evidence is not manipulate rather only selected evidence is being presented and others supposedly withheld, courts do that all the time.
Again its not. Maritime law clearly gives Israel the right to enforce a blockade and that includes boarding ships in international water intending to run the blockade. Now you and others may find the blockade reprehensible but that does not mean the actions taken in this flotilla raid were illegal, shit it does not even mean the blockade is illegal.
From accounts its disputed if the ships were in international water or not in that case, more so that was not an enforcing blockade scenario which apparently does allow the attacking of any ship intending to run the blockade even in international waters.
I posted videos with the audio of paintball guns several links ago, they can be quite loud, fired semi-auto or automatically.
I trying to get you to state your question clearly so that I may answer it as you desire.
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Maybe because they were wearing masks?
I thought you said their media was confiscated?
Heck from my analysis of the FIR video it looks like at least one thug was killed.
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Why did they wear masks? In the Turkish photos some of them were unmasked
I also posted that Iara Lee had smuggled out an hours footage
Here she is at the UN, you can see her in the flotilla footage as well
http://www.youtube.com/user/CulturesofResistance#p/a/u/0/E0-6Uii6gWo
I also posted that Iara Lee had smuggled out an hours footage
Here she is at the UN, you can see her in the flotilla footage as well
http://www.youtube.com/user/CulturesofResistance#p/a/u/0/E0-6Uii6gWo
Probably because they were striped down by the Turks? They came down in with helmets, masks and body armor.
I thought it was only 15 minutes, the first one I saw from her was only 15 minutes, maybe this is the unedited extremely boring version. In short her video shows nothing that does proves the flotilla was acting peacefully, in fact we see in her videos protesters firing slingshots at the helicopters.
Masks are usually removed to facilitate the tending of wounds and injuries. Several reasons for this.
They wear masks because it isn't very common for special operations teams like that to go without them. It's usually a measure to protect the identity of the operator.
Yes its the boring long unedited version, one hour long, which looks nothing like the "behind the scenes" of the Titanic, as the Israeli videos do. You can see all the faces, hear what they are saying and see what they are doing. No one is walking through iron bars on the ship. They have nothing to hide.
The only undisputed part of the flotilla raid is that nine activists are dead [we don't know what happened to the missing people yet]
Its a failed flotilla that succeeded. Israelis killed Turks on the ship alienating their only ally in the ME. You should see the broadcast of the funeral procession in Istanbul.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rvUZp6VWwM&NR=1
And Egypt opened the border at Rafah. Iara Lee and the other activists are putting together a bigger flotilla with more secular/religious, multinational, multireligious, multiethnic group bound for the Gaza blockade.
What will Israel do?
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Bells
Staff member
Is this evidence of some more hysterical hand wringing from you?
*Snort*
Your evidence does not pass the mustard.
You are a hypocrite because you feel no qualms about personally attacking others while complaining about attacks upon yourself.
Actually, no it does not.
So you admit that the journalists who were on that ship, impartial journalists only there to cover a story, may have captured the IDF in an unsavoury light because of the way the IDF acted and stormed those ships?
So where are those videos and audio tapes that they have confiscated? I know the Australian journalists lost thousands of dollars worth of equipment because it was confiscated by the IDF who have thus far refused to return any of it.
Guilt and premeditation?
Okay. You keep harping on and on about this.
The facts, as they are, had the IDF shadowing that flotilla for hours prior to their storming it. The ships were in international waters. I would imagine that if the activists were intent on causing harm, and it was premeditated, they would have gone down to the kitchens to arm themselves better than with poles that hold up the railing from the deck. Premeditation would be evident in their actually planning their supposed "attack" on the armed forces that stormed their ships illegally in international waters. What part of that don't you quite understand yet? The people on that boat were well within their rights to defend it against armed invaders in international waters. Is it that hard for you to grasp?
Really?
Now, you want to talk about anti-Israeli singing and show premeditation? The evidence, as is plainly evident in their having to resort to using support poles for the deck railing and plastic chairs, shows that they grabbed what they could when the IDF initially attacked their boats with smoke and stun grenades while they were in their morning prayers on the deck. The premeditation is on the part of the IDF who had planned the storming and attacking of those ships in international waters for weeks prior.
So where you go paintballing, the paintballs themselves have shards of glass embedded in them? You paintball with the IDF for fun?
Oh really? So tell me, what "care and intent" and their premeditation (since you know, they admitted to planning their actions in storming that flotilla for weeks) do you see when they have pieces of glass embedded in the paintballs they use? Having claimed to have gone to paintball before, you would know of the type of protective clothing you need to wear and it still stings like a bitch. Now imagine no protective clothing and pieces of glass in the paintballs?
Also, on that note, why don't we have a single image of the activists with any paint on them? What we have are dozens of people injured having been shot. Now, either their paintballs had very little paint and more glass to cause damage or they fired very few and switched to live rounds straight away, which is what the passengers on those ships have claimed.
What we have is 9 people confirmed dead, 5 with bullet wounds to the back of the head and the back, along with other bullet wounds to the rest of the body. We also have several people missing. So tell me, are you going to use the "care and intent" line with me about the IDF?
And you do yourself a disservice in finding what was sung at a hate rally more important than what actually happened on that boat. You do yourself a disservice when you attempt to justify shooting people in the head and executing them while harping on and on about the "rally". What you cannot seem to grasp is that no amount of singing or its contents can excuse or explain the execution of at least 5 people. Nor does it explain how it is acceptable to execute someone because the passengers decided to defend their ships against armed invaders in international waters.
Really? So when you question my abilities as a lawyer, when you question my intelligence by calling me stupid, dumb and not to mention my ability to read and comprehend, you're doing what exactly? How about when you kept making fun of my attempted rape? What disservice does that do to me or others? Or when you tried to say that I would attack your family, when I have never once even mentioned them in our debates, as if trying to goad me into doing something you know I would never stoop to, while you have with me and others? Do not project yourself onto me, Geoff. I am not you. I don't attack your family, nor do I make fun of things that may be painful for you to remember. I also do not go onto other websites and stab you in the back. That is you. Not me. So when you accuse me of resorting to personal attacks, be careful to remember what your actions have been.
/Sneer
You are pathetic.
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