You HAVE to believe, Part II
SouthStar started a thread on this topic, but in this one, I would like to lead the discussion in another direction.
One is likely to get this kind of instruction from a believer:
This is arguing from an ex-post position.
From the position of someone who already has faith.
Someone who does not have faith yet will not gain it following such instructions.
Such instructions make a non-believer feel even more powerless and stupid than they already feel.
We cannot demand from a person to do something that cannot be done deliberately.
We cannot demand from someone to admire, love, hate, fall in love, fall asleep. We cannot demand from someone to doubt, trust, believe. We cannot demand from someone to have courage or show character.
Saying, "You have to have faith" is demanding from a person to do something that cannot be done deliberately.
However, it seems possible to have faith, even if one has not been raised in a religious family or has not had certain experiences that could be termed as "life-changing".
So the question here is: How does this happen, how does this take place that one builds faith?
One can often hear that "all it takes is a little faith to start with, a mustard seed of faith". But someone who is without faith cannot will oneself not even into that mustard seed of faith!
What about those people?
I am intutively sure that there is a way even for a person without faith to come to build a faith of one's own.
I am hereby calling upon all those who have faith to carefully ponder how they came to their faith, and tell us about those beginnings.
I am emphasizing though that you must keep in mind that now, you are speaking about the past with the benefit of hindsight.
Very likely, you may answer with something like, "I first had a little faith, I didn't believe, but I prayed anyway, and so it happened."
No. This is the benefit of hindsight speaking.
I want you to think more thoroughly, more carefully.
Those that are non-believers *now* do not have that benefit of hindsight. And instructions given by some who has the benefit of hindsight do not help a non-believer to build faith, or help them only incidentally.
When you say, "You have to believe" -- what is that you are really saying?
SouthStar started a thread on this topic, but in this one, I would like to lead the discussion in another direction.
One is likely to get this kind of instruction from a believer:
Brutus1964 said:Simply believing is just the first part of faith. To have faith means you put your trust in God even though you don't have absolute proof of His existence. God put us down here for a very great purpose. We are his children and heirs to all he has. We must prove ourselves worthy of his gift. If you do not meet his standard you will still have your glorious reward. Those that follow him and keep his commandments, repent and strive to the end will be with God forever and receive the fullness of his blessings. So this life is a test to see if we will follow him even though we are out of his presence. What we do in this life will determine the rest of our eternity. God wants us to succeed but he will not force anyone. Every person must find thier own way and decide for themselves. God has given us the tools to do this. He will help us if we just ask.
This is arguing from an ex-post position.
From the position of someone who already has faith.
Someone who does not have faith yet will not gain it following such instructions.
Such instructions make a non-believer feel even more powerless and stupid than they already feel.
We cannot demand from a person to do something that cannot be done deliberately.
We cannot demand from someone to admire, love, hate, fall in love, fall asleep. We cannot demand from someone to doubt, trust, believe. We cannot demand from someone to have courage or show character.
Saying, "You have to have faith" is demanding from a person to do something that cannot be done deliberately.
However, it seems possible to have faith, even if one has not been raised in a religious family or has not had certain experiences that could be termed as "life-changing".
So the question here is: How does this happen, how does this take place that one builds faith?
One can often hear that "all it takes is a little faith to start with, a mustard seed of faith". But someone who is without faith cannot will oneself not even into that mustard seed of faith!
What about those people?
I am intutively sure that there is a way even for a person without faith to come to build a faith of one's own.
I am hereby calling upon all those who have faith to carefully ponder how they came to their faith, and tell us about those beginnings.
I am emphasizing though that you must keep in mind that now, you are speaking about the past with the benefit of hindsight.
Very likely, you may answer with something like, "I first had a little faith, I didn't believe, but I prayed anyway, and so it happened."
No. This is the benefit of hindsight speaking.
I want you to think more thoroughly, more carefully.
Those that are non-believers *now* do not have that benefit of hindsight. And instructions given by some who has the benefit of hindsight do not help a non-believer to build faith, or help them only incidentally.
When you say, "You have to believe" -- what is that you are really saying?