World may back [Israel in] Iran op as part of deal [with palestinians]

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S.A.M. said:
Exactly. Its a hypothetical.

However, based on their track record alone, ....
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But they have no "track record" in dealing with nukes!!

It's an interesting argument, SAM, but would you argue the same way in the case of kid obtaining handguns and AK-47s and killing hundreds of his classmates? He never had a "track record" either, did he???? So based on his "track record", you'd have allowed him to obtain all those guns and ammo??

Baron Max
 
In the same vein Baron, if a kid was killing other kids, would you let him run free with his weapons?
 
will said:
Nukes are not weapons of defense, SAM
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Nukes are almost entirely weapons of defense, unless you are the only one possessing them.

Since Iran is not in that happy position, its nukes would be good for nothing but defense - the "mutually assured destruction" that has so far worked, precariously, to keep a general sort of "peace" among all the nations possessing them.

And Iran has more visible need of such defensive nukes than any other country on earth. If nukes were being handed out by some deity on the basis of need, Iran would be the first to get them.
 
WillNever said:
Strawdog, you keep giving these reasons why Iran is not undeserving of nuclear weapons... but you continually fail to put forth a compelling reason as to WHY they should have nuclear weapons. The USA and Israel having them are not valid reasons, because Iran is not under iminent threat of being nuked by them or anyone else. Indeed, no one would even think about nuking Iran unless Iran decided that THEY wanted to destroy another country first.

What possible good could come out of Iran obtaining nukes? Nukes only destroy, they don't protect. And death and destruction are not noble concepts, regardless of who is doing it.
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Essentially, whats good for the goose, is good for the gander. No reason, compelling, or other is necessary. Iran is a peaceful sovereign nation, and thus CAN pursue whatever technology it chooses. Just because the US is deluded in thinking it is the global sheriff, does not change this simple FACT.

Regarding this:
The USA and Israel having them are not valid reasons, because Iran is not under iminent threat of being nuked by them or anyone else.
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Wake up. Israel, (with complicit US backing) is a known warmonger, and right now, is gearing up for a strike on Iran, under the illegal pretext of striking its nuclear facilities. This could well be a small scale nuclear strike.
Israeli navy in Suez Canal prepares for potential attack on Iran
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Two Israeli missile class warships have sailed through the Suez Canal ten days after a submarine capable of launching a nuclear missile strike, in preparation for a possible attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities.
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More indication.
(http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jul/07/israel-fears-us-would-foil-iran-strike/ - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6115903.ece - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article1290331.ece - http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1098211.html - etc.)
 
Baron Max said:
But they have no "track record" in dealing with nukes!!

It's an interesting argument, SAM, but would you argue the same way in the case of kid obtaining handguns and AK-47s and killing hundreds of his classmates? He never had a "track record" either, did he???? So based on his "track record", you'd have allowed him to obtain all those guns and ammo??

Baron Max
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On that topic. Given the regular carnage guns create in the US, they should be banned outright. The "track record" should be obvious in determining that.
 
Israel taking over lands in wars that neighboring Arab states started with them (and probably now regret) doesn't make Israelis the warmongers Strawdog. It makes the Arab states the warmongers.
 
Thats rather ridiculous. If a bunch of Arabs moved into your house and kicked you out and you responded to their takeover by attacking them, who is the warmongerer? European Jews hearing Gods voice giving them an extended lease in the Middle East is the stuff of jokes, not reality. I am flabbergasted how apparently educated people see some sort of religious fantasy as justification for occupying lands and evicting natives.
 
No matter what the issues here that you want to raise, I think the one over-riding issue that's at the heart of the Pal-Israeli situation is ....... the Pal terrorist attacks and rocker/mortar attacks SPECIFICALLY targeting Israeli citizens.

With that as a continuing policy of the Pals, you'll never find support in the world ...other than from other radical Muslims!

Baron Max
 
S.A.M. said:
Thats rather ridiculous. If a bunch of Arabs moved into your house and kicked you out and you responded to their takeover by attacking them, who is the warmongerer? European Jews hearing Gods voice giving them an extended lease in the Middle East is the stuff of jokes, not reality. I am flabbergasted how apparently educated people see some sort of religious fantasy as justification for occupying lands and evicting natives.
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The Syrians, Jordanians, Iraqis, Egyptians, Lebanese, and Saudis weren't the ones who were "kicked out" though. The muslim palestinians were. The countries who fronted the six arab armies even refused to accept the self-imposed refugees from integrating into their countries. This is a case of neighboring countries trying to police an external conflict... which is something you hate the USA doing.
 
Baron Max said:
No matter what the issues here that you want to raise, I think the one over-riding issue that's at the heart of the Pal-Israeli situation is ....... the Pal terrorist attacks and rocker/mortar attacks SPECIFICALLY targeting Israeli citizens.

With that as a continuing policy of the Pals, you'll never find support in the world ...other than from other radical Muslims!

Baron Max
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Or liberal Jews?

http://mondoweiss.net/

http://josephdana.com/

http://maxblumenthal.com/

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/
 
There will be no war on Iran. hc-zionazi-Aipac alliance has been trying to push it for a couple of years now without any success. Considering the current economic situation in the States, the completely failed operation in Iraq and the fact that they just put their neck deeper in the Pakistan/Afganistan region theres no sign that US will participate on yet another neverending war which would most likely distabilize (for what its left) the whole region. Europe is not too enthusiastic participating either, having enough problems getting proper Halal meet on their plates ---> Israel by itself simply wont be able to handle it.

Using the US missile program in eastern europe as a barganing chip against Iran pretty much lays it wide open:

"Barack Obama yesterday opened the prospect of a deal with Russia on the contentious US missile defence system in Europe in return for Moscow's help in resolving the Iranian nuclear crisis."

guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/04/us-russia-relations

" "What I said in the letter was that, obviously, to the extent that we are lessening Iran's commitment to nuclear weapons, then that reduces the pressure for -- or the need for -- a missile defense system," Obama said.

"It was simply a statement of fact that I've made previously, which is that the missile defense program, to the extent that it is deployed, is designed to deal with not a Russian threat, but an Iranian threat."

edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/03/russia.letter.nuclear.iran/index.html

The missile program in eastern europe was for the threat of Iran and not Russia.. You gotta love it.
 
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baron said:
No matter what the issues here that you want to raise, I think the one over-riding issue that's at the heart of the Pal-Israeli situation is ....... the Pal terrorist attacks and rocker/mortar attacks SPECIFICALLY targeting Israeli citizens.
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No such thing.

Those rockets weren't targeted at all - unlike the Israeli artillery and aerial bombardment, the Israeli sniper fire, etc.
 
iceaura said:
No such thing.

Those rockets weren't targeted at all - unlike the Israeli artillery and aerial bombardment, the Israeli sniper fire, etc.
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So, ....what? Everything would be okay with you if Israel just started randomly lobbing mortars, rockets and artillery shells over the border into Gaza? ...LOL!!

Does give it a nice sense of fair play, don't it?? ...LOL!

Baron Max
 
Baron Max said:
So, ....what? Everything would be okay with you if Israel just started randomly lobbing mortars, rockets and artillery shells over the border into Gaza? ...LOL!!

Does give it a nice sense of fair play, don't it?? ...LOL!

Baron Max
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That is what Israel does. On an industrial scale. As we recently saw in Gaza.. 1300 deaths, 6000 injured. Is that fair play?
 
StrawDog said:
That is what Israel does. On an industrial scale. As we recently saw in Gaza.. 1300 deaths, 6000 injured. Is that fair play?
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No, that was only during the offensive. I'm talking about if Israel started doing what Hamas does ....just lob shells randomly into Gaza - just exactly waht Hamas does to Israel. Fair? Of course it is ...how could it be otherwise?!

Baron Max
 
Baron Max said:
No, that was only during the offensive. I'm talking about if Israel started doing what Hamas does ....just lob shells randomly into Gaza - just exactly waht Hamas does to Israel. Fair? Of course it is ...how could it be otherwise?!

Baron Max
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I know this is sounding stale, but Israel can stop this type of resistance if it chooses a path of peace and talks regarding an independent Palestine. Its a simple choice.
 
baron said:
So, ....what? Everything would be okay with you if Israel just started randomly lobbing mortars, rockets and artillery shells over the border into Gaza? ...LOL!!
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If they matched what the Palestinians did, untargetable rocket for rocket in the general direction of the enemy with similar odds of hitting the innocent, I would call it evenly evil.

As it is, Israel's tactics are far worse and more blameworthy - they are killing many times more civilians, and doing it by aiming at them.
 
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