Working definition of religion?

[one_raven]

Give it a shot.
Please don't just quote the inadequate dictionary at me.

Does it have to be canonized?
Does it have to profess a belief in God(s)?
(what about Buddhism?)
Does it have to profess a belief in the "supernatural" (if so, you must define "supernatural", of course).
Does it have to be looking for "why" instead of "how" - isn't that just philosphy?
Can it be personal, or does it have to be codified by some religious body?
Is it confined to the canon, or does it include the dogma, does it include the clergy and the rest of the congregation?

Let's try and pin down a thorough, concise and accurate definition of "religion" that theists, atheists and others will agree on.

 

[S.A.M.]

Organised belief in God

 

[one_raven]

Organised belief in God

Organized, as in codified and canonized?
Hinduism, wouldn't quite qualify then, would it?

God, as in the big guy, creator of all and overlord of the universe?
I think that would also disqualify at least some forms of Hinduism, Daoism, Buddhism - much of Eastern beliefs, really.


I think that statement needs to be modfied a bit.

 

[S.A.M.]

Organized, as in codified and canonized?
Hinduism, wouldn't quite qualify then, would it?

God, as in the big guy, creator of all and overlord of the universe?
I think that would also disqualify at least some forms of Hinduism, Daoism, Buddhism - much of Eastern beliefs, really.


I think that statement needs to be modfied a bit.

Hinduism is also organised, as different philosophies, e.g. Dvaita and Advaita.

Buddhism is not really a religion, just a belief system.

 

[one_raven]

But isn't Advaita the only codified school that recognizes on all-powerful creator God in Brahaman?
Most of the rest recognize Deva's and such, but have no "God".
Buddhism also recognizes Deva's (Buddha himslf wrestled with Mara).
What makes Samkhya a religion?

 

[S.A.M.]

But isn't Advaita the only codified school that recognizes on all-powerful creator God in Brahaman?
Most of the rest recognize Deva's and such, but have no "God".
Buddhism also recognizes Deva's (Buddha himslf wrestled with Mara).
What makes Samkhya a religion?

Brahman is undefined, different philosophies approach it differently. Hence the reason why Hinduism embraces both agnosticism and atheism. Brahman in that case, would be the nature of Truth in a non-deistic sense, as a universal consciousness.

 

[one_raven]

Brahman is undefined, different philosophies approach it differently.

Hence the reason why Hinduism embraces both agnosticism and atheism.

Brahman in that case, would be the nature of Truth in a non-deistic sense, as a universal consciousness.

Al three of these statments seem to say that Hinduism is NOT a religion according to your definition...

"Organised belief in God"

Do you see what I'm saying?

 

[(Q)]

Religion IS the belief in supernatural powers that control human destiny. Supernatural is that believed to be what is not found in nature.

 

[one_raven]

Religion IS the belief in supernatural powers that control human destiny. Supernatural is that believed to be what is not found in nature.

Well, that's a convenient built-in paradox - which, of course, makes religion self-contradictory by nature.

 

[(Q)]

Well, that's a convenient built-in paradox - which, of course, makes religion self-contradictory by nature.

Amazing, isn't it?

 

[S.A.M.]

Al three of these statments seem to say that Hinduism is NOT a religion according to your definition...

"Organised belief in God"

Do you see what I'm saying?

Its a limitation of language. Brahman is undefined in Hinduism, but it does not make the Hindus less stringent in their beliefs, regardless of whether it is monism, dualism or a belief in a universal consciousness. They are all perspectives on Truth. Hinduism would also embrace science as one more perspective, since the inferences of science owe as much to an assumption of correctness as the practice of belief.

 

[VitalOne]

Religion IS the belief in supernatural powers that control human destiny. Supernatural is that believed to be what is not found in nature.

So if all things in religion were found to be true scientifically....then religion would no longer be religion since it would no longer be supernatural??

 

[one_raven]

Amazing, isn't it?

Gaint squid were considered to be "supernatural" until fairly recently.
Suoernatural simply means somethign for which we do not yet have an explanation, then - no?

Brahman is undefined in Hinduism, but it does not make the Hindus less stringent in their beliefs

I didn't say it does, and that's actually, my point.
Hindus can slo be Atheists, can they not?
That doesn't mean they are not religious, does it?

 

[(Q)]

So if all things in religion were found to be true scientifically....then religion would no longer be religion since it would no longer be supernatural??

Brilliant!

 

[S.A.M.]

I didn't say it does, and that's actually, my point.
Hindus can slo be Atheists, can they not?
That doesn't mean they are not religious, does it?

Atheism is also a belief, is it not?

 

[(Q)]

Gaint squid were considered to be "supernatural" until fairly recently.

That would have been incorrect since squids, giant or otherwise, can be explained IN nature.

Supernatural simply means something for which we do not yet have an explanation, then - no?

Nope, it means not existing in nature.

 

[glaucon]

An ideological belief system centered upon the notion of life beyond physical death.

 

[one_raven]

Atheism is also a belief, is it not?

No, actually, but I really don't want to get into that in this thread.

Are you implying Atheism is a religion?
If you are, then your definition is severly flawed.
It should then read simply...

"Organised belief"

In which case pretty much everything can be a religion, and it makes the word pretty much meaningless.
No?

 

[(Q)]

Atheism is also a belief, is it not?

Atheism is only considered a belief with theists, who don't believe in any other gods but their own.

 

[S.A.M.]

Nope, it means not existing in nature.

Not really. The super part indicates that its more than natural, i.e. something more than what we are naturally accustomed to consider as commonplace.