Why were Jesus and Lucifer both called "The Morningstar?" Doesn't "Lucifer" mean "light bearer?" Didn't Jesus say, "I am the light of the world?" What gives?
Will the real Morningstar please stand up?
- Thread starter Medicine*Woman
- Start date
Medicine Woman said:
Hi Medicine woman you are quoting from the NIV translation of the bible it is a false translation.
KJV
Isaiah 14:12
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
KJV
Revelation 22:16
16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
NKJV
Isaiah 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
NKJV
Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star
So Jesus is The Bright and Morning Star
Lucifer who is satan is son of the morning
The NIV states
NIV
Isaiah 14:12
How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
NIV
Revelation 22:16
16"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[1] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
A curse on the NIV for calling satan Jesus and vice versa.
All Praise The Ancient of Days
*************Adstar said:
M*W: I didn't reference any specific Bible. I had this committed to memory. Somewhere in the NT, Jesus refers to himself as the Morningstar. With that in mind, when Jesus said to Peter, "Get the behind me, Satan," isn't Jesus calling himself "Satan?"
I've read that the "Morningstar" refers to the Planet Venus. Elsewhere in the NT, there is a reference to Jesus being "the light of the world." Why is Lucifer also said to be the "light?"
Medicine Woman,
Good question!
I often wonder about this:
It is said that angels have no free will and that they have no choice but to serve God.
It is said that Lucifer was an angel.
Question: How could he have rebelled then, if he has no free will?
Also, Jesus had no choice but to serve his father -- basically, he was "merely doing his job". He did not choose to do what he was doing.
That puts the whole idea of "sacrifice" and "rebellion" in a new light!
Good question!
I often wonder about this:
It is said that angels have no free will and that they have no choice but to serve God.
It is said that Lucifer was an angel.
Question: How could he have rebelled then, if he has no free will?
Also, Jesus had no choice but to serve his father -- basically, he was "merely doing his job". He did not choose to do what he was doing.
That puts the whole idea of "sacrifice" and "rebellion" in a new light!
Hello Medicine woman 
The term "get the behind me" is like today’s term "get out of my face" or "get lost" and there are other less polite terms that we have in the English language to tell others "where to go".
Jesus used the same expression when satan tried to get Jesus to worship him.
Luke 4:8
And Jesus answered and said to him, "Get behind Me, Satan! For it is written, "You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve."'
I can not find any reference to lucifer in the bible as being the light? Maybe you cold clarify where you got that info? But i did find these for you.
Luke 10:18
And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.(quote Jesus)
2 Corinthians 11
13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
All Praise The Ancient of Days
The term "get the behind me" is like today’s term "get out of my face" or "get lost" and there are other less polite terms that we have in the English language to tell others "where to go".
Jesus used the same expression when satan tried to get Jesus to worship him.
Luke 4:8
And Jesus answered and said to him, "Get behind Me, Satan! For it is written, "You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve."'
I can not find any reference to lucifer in the bible as being the light? Maybe you cold clarify where you got that info? But i did find these for you.
Luke 10:18
And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.(quote Jesus)
2 Corinthians 11
13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
All Praise The Ancient of Days
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Maybe this will help:
"Lucifer" is the Greek translation of the Hebrew "Helel ben Shadar" (="the brilliant one," "son of the morning"), and bears no relation to Satan in the text itself. But it has been attributed to him because he is a poser of the real thing, as 2 Cor. describes.
And angels do have free will - they are created creatures like ourselves - but we understand just as little about their wills as we do about the angels themselves. They obey God, but we don't know what they're commanded. The angels who rebelled are the ones who decided not to obey God exclusively, so He stopped using them. That's my take on it.
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
Angels are frequently compared to the stars (the "heavenly host"), but nobody thinks they are stars. There's another way of looking at it: stars are also suns, but they're not the sun, or our sun. When angels pose to be anything more to us than what they are, they are trespassing on God's territory, so to speak. Just look at what "Lucifer" says Isaiah: "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God".And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
"Lucifer" is the Greek translation of the Hebrew "Helel ben Shadar" (="the brilliant one," "son of the morning"), and bears no relation to Satan in the text itself. But it has been attributed to him because he is a poser of the real thing, as 2 Cor. describes.
... it represents a Babylonian or Hebrew star-myth similar to the Greek legend of Phaethon. The brilliancy of the morning star, which eclipses all other stars, but is not seen during the night, may easily have given rise to a myth such as was told of Ethana and Zu: he was led by his pride to strive for the highest seat among the star-gods on the northern mountain of the gods (comp. Ezek. xxviii. 14; Ps. xlviii. 3 [A.V. 2]), but was hurled down by the supreme ruler of the Babylonian Olympus. Stars were regarded throughout antiquity as living celestial beings (Job xxxviii. 7). - JewishEncyclopedia: morning star
And angels do have free will - they are created creatures like ourselves - but we understand just as little about their wills as we do about the angels themselves. They obey God, but we don't know what they're commanded. The angels who rebelled are the ones who decided not to obey God exclusively, so He stopped using them. That's my take on it.
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Doing His father's will was an assertion of his own will.RosaMagika said:
Matt.26:53
Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"
Jesus freely chose to let himself be taken - He chose to let God's will be done. We have the same choice, but it doesn't take away our freedom, it just asks us to assert it.Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"
[QUOTE=Jenyar
"Lucifer" is the Greek translation of the Hebrew "Helel ben Shadar" (="the brilliant one," "son of the morning"), and bears no relation to Satan in the text itself.
And angels do have free will - they are created creatures like ourselves - but we understand just as little about their wills as we do about the angels themselves. They obey God, but we don't know what they're commanded. The angels who rebelled are the ones who decided not to obey God exclusively, so He stopped using them. That's my take on it.
*************
M*W: Jenyar, my research has led me to the following information. Angels are NOT "creatures like ourselves." They have no sex, no gender. They are neither male nor female. They do not reproduce. They ARE creatures--we are not creatures. We are an evolved creation, but we were not created instantaneously as angels were created. Angels are a one-time creation, and do not evolve like the human species. Angels DO NOT have free will. They only work with energy-related matters. They are energy. They could be positive or negative energies. They were already highly evolved when they were "created." Unlike humans, we are still in the process of creation. I believe we're in the "last day" of creation. How long this last day of creation will take, I don't know. I can't even guess. I believe them to be "light beings" which I call "energy entities." Angels are NOT commanded to do anything by our Creator. Angels are simply a higher vibrating energy field that are an extension of the Creator. Perhaps when our evolution has reached a maximum realization, we may become like angels. They have no physical body. They are depicted in art to be male, but I think that is because it's how we perceive an angel to look like. This isn't necessarily so. However, they CAN take on the appearance of a human being in order to complete their "mission" for mankind. Somewhere in the Bible it speaks of "angels unaware." I believe this is true. This positive or even negative energy can inspire anyone, any human being to do right OR wrong. When their mission has been completed, they go about their way until they are called again. I believe they are in another dimension, but they are so advanced that they can crossover the dimensions. Maybe someday we'll be able to do the same thing. There are levels of heaven. We are on the lowest level, because we're not dead yet. We're evolving toward the next highest level of heaven. The second level of heaven is the "peacekeeper." They have specific energy fields to attend to. I'm really not all that familiar with the higher levels of ascendance.
As I said before, angels have specific missions. They have no free will. They are "light beings." How bright they shine depends on their energy field. Then there are the dark angels. These are the ones you need to avoid. Humans are more powerful than angels. We can accept or reject the work of angels. One needs to be more enlightened in order to "sense" the presence of angels. Those living in darkness will never see an angel unless, perhaps, it's a dark angel, and that would cause fear I would imagine.
Lucifer is just a moniker for an entity that was created as the most brilliant of all the light beings. It's name means "one who brings light." Since angels have no free will, there was no rebellion. Lucifer is also a reference to stars. (i.e. Lucy in the sky with diamonds wasn't just about the Beatles on LSD). Who we think of as Lucifer was bound to vibrate on a lower level, and that would be Earth.
Again, humanity was created in the "image of God." What we call the "image of God" is just the pure force of positive energy which we call "God." Lower Earth angels draw us (and bind us) to the Earthly plane. Higher powers and principalities draw us toward the higher levels of heaven. It's a constant struggle for humanity to be pulled between Earth and the higher levels of Heaven, and there's a fine line between the two.
"Lucifer" is the Greek translation of the Hebrew "Helel ben Shadar" (="the brilliant one," "son of the morning"), and bears no relation to Satan in the text itself.
And angels do have free will - they are created creatures like ourselves - but we understand just as little about their wills as we do about the angels themselves. They obey God, but we don't know what they're commanded. The angels who rebelled are the ones who decided not to obey God exclusively, so He stopped using them. That's my take on it.
*************
M*W: Jenyar, my research has led me to the following information. Angels are NOT "creatures like ourselves." They have no sex, no gender. They are neither male nor female. They do not reproduce. They ARE creatures--we are not creatures. We are an evolved creation, but we were not created instantaneously as angels were created. Angels are a one-time creation, and do not evolve like the human species. Angels DO NOT have free will. They only work with energy-related matters. They are energy. They could be positive or negative energies. They were already highly evolved when they were "created." Unlike humans, we are still in the process of creation. I believe we're in the "last day" of creation. How long this last day of creation will take, I don't know. I can't even guess. I believe them to be "light beings" which I call "energy entities." Angels are NOT commanded to do anything by our Creator. Angels are simply a higher vibrating energy field that are an extension of the Creator. Perhaps when our evolution has reached a maximum realization, we may become like angels. They have no physical body. They are depicted in art to be male, but I think that is because it's how we perceive an angel to look like. This isn't necessarily so. However, they CAN take on the appearance of a human being in order to complete their "mission" for mankind. Somewhere in the Bible it speaks of "angels unaware." I believe this is true. This positive or even negative energy can inspire anyone, any human being to do right OR wrong. When their mission has been completed, they go about their way until they are called again. I believe they are in another dimension, but they are so advanced that they can crossover the dimensions. Maybe someday we'll be able to do the same thing. There are levels of heaven. We are on the lowest level, because we're not dead yet. We're evolving toward the next highest level of heaven. The second level of heaven is the "peacekeeper." They have specific energy fields to attend to. I'm really not all that familiar with the higher levels of ascendance.
As I said before, angels have specific missions. They have no free will. They are "light beings." How bright they shine depends on their energy field. Then there are the dark angels. These are the ones you need to avoid. Humans are more powerful than angels. We can accept or reject the work of angels. One needs to be more enlightened in order to "sense" the presence of angels. Those living in darkness will never see an angel unless, perhaps, it's a dark angel, and that would cause fear I would imagine.
Lucifer is just a moniker for an entity that was created as the most brilliant of all the light beings. It's name means "one who brings light." Since angels have no free will, there was no rebellion. Lucifer is also a reference to stars. (i.e. Lucy in the sky with diamonds wasn't just about the Beatles on LSD). Who we think of as Lucifer was bound to vibrate on a lower level, and that would be Earth.
Again, humanity was created in the "image of God." What we call the "image of God" is just the pure force of positive energy which we call "God." Lower Earth angels draw us (and bind us) to the Earthly plane. Higher powers and principalities draw us toward the higher levels of heaven. It's a constant struggle for humanity to be pulled between Earth and the higher levels of Heaven, and there's a fine line between the two.
Jenyar said: