Why police detectives and the FBI consult psychics

[Magical Realist]

Just for kicks, I looked into some more. I tried just starting from the first one, but the first two are so vague that I can't even find the crime. But here's a debunking of the third one:
http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/psychic_sleuthing_the_myth-making_process

I didn't see anything about the psychic's information not being accurate. Even your own article quotes Greenaway: "As to Detective Greenaway, now retired: “I never believed in that stuff before. I don’t know if I still do, but what she did—her assistance in that case—was really something” (Newhouse 2005).

Seems that the quoted cop was much less impressed than the show claimed and came to recognize after the hype faded that most of what was provided was uselessly vague.

He said it was "really something." What do you think that means?

Case 5, a body is found randomly by a hiker, after a year of failure by a psychic to find it. Psychic claims victory anyway, having gotten a few details right and others wrong (method of murder: wrong). Again, it's the "shotgun" (I prefer "crap-flinging") technique.
http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/psychic_sleuthing_the_myth-making_process

Same link as the case above...

The story of Case 6: Body found by a man walking a dog, everyone suspected the mother, nothing for a psychic to do:
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20106446,00.html

Confirmation of Valerie Morrison's involvement in the case:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n..._s0AAAAIBAJ&sjid=Ak8KAAAAIBAJ&pg=1339,1941675

 

[Balerion]

You guys need to realize you're dealing with a True Believer. No amount of logic will convince him he's wrong, because this is his security blanket.

Go have a look at his recent threads about the existence of faries. If past is prologue, it's only a matter of time before he starts shit-slinging and gets himself banned again.

 

[Russ_Watters]

Same link as the case above...

Apologies: corrected now. I also had the case number wrong. Here it is, fixed:

Case 4, a body is found randomly by a hiker, after a year of failure by a psychic to find it. Psychic claims victory anyway, having gotten a few details right and others wrong (method of murder: wrong). Again, it's the "shotgun" (I prefer "crap-flinging") technique.
http://www.azcentral.com/business/a...ri-bowersock-search-for-mom-loretta-ends.html

 

[Magical Realist]

You guys need to realize you're dealing with a True Believer. No amount of logic will convince him he's wrong, because this is his security blanket.

Go have a look at his recent threads about the existence of faries. If past is prologue, it's only a matter of time before he starts shit-slinging and gets himself banned again.

You mean like insulting someone for being young or childish or gullible or stupid? The standard hostile flaming I get here every time I post evidence in this forum?

 

[Russ_Watters]

Confirmation of Valerie Morrison's involvement in the case:

And confirmation that according to police, she didn't crack it! She didn't help find the body and the mom was already a suspect. At best, she may have helped interrogate the mom, which isn't something that you need to be a psychic to do.

 

[Russ_Watters]

You mean like insulting someone for being young or childish or gullible or stupid? The standard hostile flaming I get here every time I post evidence in this forum?

Those are observations of your attitude and aren't insults even though they are negatives (though I wouldn't call you stupid). You can't sugar-coat realities; they just are what they are.

 

[Balerion]

You mean like insulting someone for being young or childish or gullible or stupid? The standard hostile flaming I get here every time I post evidence in this forum?

Saying you're young and childish and gullible are observations based on your behavior. This is how you portray yourself on this forum. If you don't like it, perhaps instead of pretending everyone's out to get you, try to improve yourself.

 

[Magical Realist]

Apologies: corrected now. I also had the case number wrong. Here it is, fixed:

Case 4, a body is found randomly by a hiker, after a year of failure by a psychic to find it. Psychic claims victory anyway, having gotten a few details right and others wrong (method of murder: wrong). Again, it's the "shotgun" (I prefer "crap-flinging") technique.
http://www.azcentral.com/business/a...ri-bowersock-search-for-mom-loretta-ends.html

Confirmation of Mary Ann Morgan's accuracy in helping solve this case:

http://books.google.com/books?id=gO...e&q=mary ann morgan loretta bowersock&f=false

 

[Magical Realist]

Those are observations of your attitude and aren't insults even though they are negatives (though I wouldn't call you stupid). You can't sugar-coat realities; they just are what they are.

No, they're real insults and attacks on my character. Clear violations of Sci Forums rules, but rarely enforced now by any mod.

 

[Magical Realist]

Saying you're young and childish and gullible are observations based on your behavior. This is how you portray yourself on this forum. If you don't like it, perhaps instead of pretending everyone's out to get you, try to improve yourself.

No they're insults and attacks on my character. Attempts to undermine my position by maligning me. The responsibility for your attacks rests solely on you. Not me.

 

[Magical Realist]

And confirmation that according to police, she didn't crack it! She didn't help find the body and the mom was already a suspect. At best, she may have helped interrogate the mom, which isn't something that you need to be a psychic to do.

She confirmed what the police may only have suspected at that point. And she was dead on accurate. Are you denying she wasn't?

BTW, this is like the 5th case so far we have confirmed as real and factual. Are you still sticking to the claim that Psychic Investigators made up these cases for entertainment purposes?

 

[Russ_Watters]

The story of Case 6: Body found by a man walking a dog, everyone suspected the mother, nothing for a psychic to do:
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20106446,00.html

Actually, this one hints at a potentially valuable service a psychic can provide: lying.

See, often times, police think they know who the guilty person is, but don't have enough evidence to prove it. So they have to extract it from the suspect through interrogation. One way they do that is to lie (or bluff) to the suspect about what is known in order to get them to admit to things they think the police already know, but don't. Since lying about what they know in order to extract information is the entire job description of psychics, they are uniquely skilled at it. And that appears to be what happened in this case.

Note that this tactic will only work on someone who is gullible enough to believe in psychics.

 

[Magical Realist]

Actually, this one hints at a potentially valuable service a psychic can provide: lying.

See, often times, police think they know who the guilty person is, but don't have enough evidence to prove it. So they have to extract it from the suspect through interrogation. One way they do that is to lie (or bluff) to the suspect about what is known in order to get them to admit to things they think the police already know, but don't. Since lying about what they know in order to extract information is the entire job description of psychics, they are uniquely skilled at it. And that appears to be what happened in this case.

Note that this tactic will only work on someone who is gullible enough to believe in psychics.

I see. So she was lying that the mother did it even though she was correct that the mother did it. Wow..It's gett'n deep up in here! lol!

 

[Russ_Watters]

Confirmation of Mary Ann Morgan's accuracy in helping solve this case:

http://books.google.com/books?id=gO...e&q=mary ann morgan loretta bowersock&f=false

Also included: confirmation of the shotgun technique's use and total lack of value of the psychics in solving the crime/finding the body. Lots of psychics provided lots of advice and none of it helped solve the case. Notable in your link:

The willing exploitation of a fearful family by psychics, who have no insight at all in this situation, is deplorable.

I agree.

 

[Russ_Watters]

I see. So she was lying that the mother did it even though she was correct that the mother did it. Wow..It's gett'n deep up in here! lol!

MR, an observation that isn't intended as an insult: it is sometimes difficult to tell if you are saying such things because you are gullible or are totally lacking in any analytical skill (logic) or are trolling and are really smarter than what you display here (at times, you display flashes of insight and some of the things you say imply purposeful manipulation, not lack of intelligence). Whichever is the case here, what you said misses the point: everyone believed the mother did it. They didn't need the psychic to tell them. What they needed was for the mother to admit it because they didn't have enough evidence to prove it. That is what the "psychic" did. She convinced the mom she could prove she was guilty, which triggered her confession.

She confirmed what the police may only have suspected at that point. And she was dead on accurate. Are you denying she wasn't?

Hairsplitting. Everyone believed the same thing: that the mother was guilty. You could just as easily claim the opposite: the police knew and the psychic only suspected. but ultimately, everyone believed the same thing and the psychic didn't provide it.

Statements like this are what make you seem more intelligent than other posts would imply. It takes some skill to twist a line of logic. That's why I'm not convinced you are actually gullible and may instead actually be trolling.

BTW, this is like the 5th case so far we have confirmed as real and factual. Are you still sticking to the claim that Psychic Investigators made up these cases for entertainment purposes?

I've never made any such claim. Again, statements like this imply trolling instead of lack of intelligence/gullibility. Some of what you say is really, really dumb, but in order to successfully twist a line of logic, you have to be able to understand it. You of course know quite well that the existence of the cases is not in doubt here, just the contribution of the "psychics".

 

[Balerion]

No they're insults and attacks on my character. Attempts to undermine my position by maligning me. The responsibility for your attacks rest solely on you. Not me.

Plugging your ears and stamping your feet doesn't make it so. People have gone above and beyond to refute your claims, and you've demonstrated no ability to comprehend, and no willingness to learn. In other words, they've already undermined your position through arugment, and you malign yourself by acting like an idiot in response. Pointing this out is not an insult.

 

[Magical Realist]

Also included: confirmation of the shotgun technique's use and total lack of value of the psychics in solving the crime/finding the body. Lots of psychics provided lots of advice and none of it helped solve the case. Notable in your link:

I agree.

KVOA Tucson
http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=4368953&nav=menu216_18_1_11

Lupita Murillo Reports

Psychics described murder victim's whereabouts days after disappearance

Jan 19, 2006


"In a TV interview, Mary Ann Morgan predicted a year ago that Loretta Bowersock would be found by two hikers.

A "gathering for Loretta Bowersock" will be held this coming Thursday in Tempe.

It's not being called a memorial, but instead a "gathering".

Bowersock was the 69-year-old Tempe woman who disappeared over a year ago.

Her skeletal remains were found a week ago, buried in a remote desert area near Casa Grande. Eyewitness News 4 was the first to bring you the story.

Bowersock's daughter, Terri, brought in psychics to help find her mother.

In a TV interview, Mary Ann Morgan predicted a year ago that Loretta Bowersock would be found by two hikers. She spoke with sister station KTVK on Friday.

"I saw that it wasn't Terri's responsibility to find the body of her mother. It wasn't the police; it was actually the responsibility and karma of some hikers that would be out looking for rocks. They would come across the shallow grave."

Last Tuesday, hikers searching for rocks in the desert found the shallow grave. They made the gruesome discovery of a human skull.

Morgan had also predicted, "I got a lot of other information that Loretta was asphyxiated or smothered. I got that one of the other things is that she was wrapped in a tarp and I described the color of the tarp."

That information was confirmed by police when Bowersock's remains were found.

On Dec. 17, 2004, a call came in to Tucson Police from another psychic who had a vision about Mrs. Bowersock. The psychic said Bowersock's body was wrapped in a tarp, lying near a body of water, possibly near Casa Grande.

Meteorologist Jimmy Stewart checked the weather report for that date, which recorded that there had been reports of rain the week before.

Another psychic called in her vision: Bowersock was in four-foot hole on a work construction site.

The skeletal remains were found in wash, next to a gravel pit. The shallow grave was about four feet long and 18 inches deep.

Fabian Pacheco, who was a Tucson homicide detective working the case, says it's hard to tell if psychics helped in this case.

Pacheco says, "It's not something we use in the police department, however, we're not going to overlook it either."

 

[Balerion]

KVOA Tucson
http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=4368953&nav=menu216_18_1_11

Lupita Murillo Reports

Psychics described murder victim's whereabouts days after disappearance

Jan 19, 2006


"In a TV interview, Mary Ann Morgan predicted a year ago that Loretta Bowersock would be found by two hikers.

A "gathering for Loretta Bowersock" will be held this coming Thursday in Tempe.

It's not being called a memorial, but instead a "gathering".

Bowersock was the 69-year-old Tempe woman who disappeared over a year ago.

Her skeletal remains were found a week ago, buried in a remote desert area near Casa Grande. Eyewitness News 4 was the first to bring you the story.

Bowersock's daughter, Terri, brought in psychics to help find her mother.

In a TV interview, Mary Ann Morgan predicted a year ago that Loretta Bowersock would be found by two hikers. She spoke with sister station KTVK on Friday.

"I saw that it wasn't Terri's responsibility to find the body of her mother. It wasn't the police; it was actually the responsibility and karma of some hikers that would be out looking for rocks. They would come across the shallow grave."

Last Tuesday, hikers searching for rocks in the desert found the shallow grave. They made the gruesome discovery of a human skull.

Morgan had also predicted, "I got a lot of other information that Loretta was asphyxiated or smothered. I got that one of the other things is that she was wrapped in a tarp and I described the color of the tarp."

That information was confirmed by police when Bowersock's remains were found.

On Dec. 17, 2004, a call came in to Tucson Police from another psychic who had a vision about Mrs. Bowersock. The psychic said Bowersock's body was wrapped in a tarp, lying near a body of water, possibly near Casa Grande.

Meteorologist Jimmy Stewart checked the weather report for that date, which recorded that there had been reports of rain the week before.

Another psychic called in her vision: Bowersock was in four-foot hole on a work construction site.

The skeletal remains were found in wash, next to a gravel pit. The shallow grave was about four feet long and 18 inches deep.

Fabian Pacheco, who was a Tucson homicide detective working the case, says it's hard to tell if psychics helped in this case.

Pacheco says, "It's not something we use in the police department, however, we're not going to overlook it either."

LOL! Wrapped in a tarp, near a body of water, in a shallow grave. That only describes 85% of dead body locations.

 

[Magical Realist]

MR, an observation that isn't intended as an insult: it is sometimes difficult to tell if you are saying such things because you are gullible or are totally lacking in any analytical skill (logic) or are trolling and are really smarter than what you display here (at times, you display flashes of insight and some of the things you say imply purposeful manipulation, not lack of intelligence). Whichever is the case here, what you said misses the point: everyone believed the mother did it. They didn't need the psychic to tell them. What they needed was for the mother to admit it because they didn't have enough evidence to prove it. That is what the "psychic" did. She convinced the mom she could prove she was guilty, which triggered her confession.

Keep your comments about how I am to yourself. I'm not interested in any ad hoc psychoanalysis from you or anyone else in this thread. You claimed the psychic was lying that she knew the mother did it. You have ZERO evidence for that claim. For someone who initially claimed the psychic was not even involved in the case, you sure aren't doin very well. Any other spurious speculations you want to present as evidence?

I've never made any such claim. Again, statements like this imply trolling instead of lack of intelligence/gullibility. You of course know quite well that the existence of the cases is not in doubt here, just the contribution of the "psychics".

Wow..so all that ridiculous mentioning of the Kardashians and the Amish Mafia being fictional was for what? Seemed to me you were saying this proves Psychic Detectives was fictional as well.

And once again, can the comments on my intelligence or dumbness. They're not helping you make your case. In fact one might think they are desperate resorts in lieu of presenting any valid arguments. People only have to insult or character assassinate when they have nothing left to argue for.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Because it suggests the police are too incompetent to solve the case on their own.

What will it take to brang psychics out of the shadows... to be considered respectable enuff that police woud not be embrrassed to publically work wit them to solve crime.???