Why police detectives and the FBI consult psychics

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Nope.

Let's say you walk up to a streetcorner. You see ten men all claiming they are Jesus Christ. So you ask the first one a bunch of questions. He turns out to be insane. You ask the second one; he doesn't know anything about the Bible and is drunk. He's doing this on a bet. You ask the third one. He's an actor playing Jesus for a class.

Etc etc. You get through the first nine and all are fakes. What about the tenth one? Might he be the real thing? Sure, maybe. But the smart money is that he's not really Jesus Christ. It's a safe bet even if you're not psychic.

You're claiming that each of these investigations consulted up to 100 psychics before finally finding one that guessed it right. You have no evidence of this. You're simply speculating.

Apparently some can. (Indeed, statistically it is a certainty that if you make enough predictions you will get all the above right.)

No..there's nothing statistically certain that you will ever guess these things. The cases speak for themselves.
 
It's not guessing if they have relevant information.


Where would they get his "relevant information" about the location of the body and the identity of the murderer? Especially since nobody knew any of this at the time, except the murderer.
 
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You're claiming that each of these investigations consulted up to 100 psychics before finally finding one that guessed it right.

?? No. I am claiming that, independently, 100 investigations consulted 100 psychics - and the one where the psychic was right got all the news coverage. No one will ever read "psychic was wrong and police still baffled." (Well, other than very high profile cases like MH370 where everything is reportable. And in those cases the psychics are always wrong.)

No..there's nothing statistically certain that you will ever guess these things.

Yes, it is a statistical certainty - if you guess for long enough you will eventually be right. Buy enough Lotto tickets and you are guaranteed to win eventually.
 
It's telling that you don't understand why this argument is made. No worries, you'll understand as you get older and experience more of life. But, in the meantime, the reason TV programs like this can't be trusted is because they have no responsibility to provide accurate details, and their sole purpose for producing the show is to make money. You can see why shows like that can't be trusted,

Actually TV documentaries like these provide factual information all the time. There would be definite legal repercussions from the families and the police departments involved if they just made up details that never happened. You can't just make up shit and air it on tv claiming it really happened. The real world doesn't operate like that. Particularly on a subject as sensitive as a murder.

And some advice: pretending that this is the only argument against the existence of genuine psychic ability is intellectual dishonest, even for someone your age. We have a mod who is suddenly championing this as as a rules violation, and another who is pretending that It has been all along, so be careful.

That's only one of the three "arguments" offered against this so far: the psychic is lying about what really happened. The psychic just got lucky and guessed it right. Or it's just a story made up by a TV show. None of these claims are based on any evidence. So perhaps it is you skeptics who need to beware not to offer arguments without presenting evidence for them.
 
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?? No. I am claiming that, independently, 100 investigations consulted 100 psychics - and the one where the psychic was right got all the news coverage. No one will ever read "psychic was wrong and police still baffled." (Well, other than very high profile cases like MH370 where everything is reportable. And in those cases the psychics are always wrong.)

Yes. That goes without saying. We report the successes not the failures in a field of research. Noone talks about how many times doctors got it wrong and gave the wrong diagnosis. Noone talks about how many times scientists present crackpot theories that don't pan out. We concentrate on the times they got it right. Does this mean we are misrepresenting medicine and science too?

Yes, it is a statistical certainty - if you guess for long enough you will eventually be right. Buy enough Lotto tickets and you are guaranteed to win eventually.

No..guessing is never a statistical certainty. Besides, so far I presented cases where the same psychic was right in numerous cases. More to come. That's like saying the same person won the lottery 4 times. Doesn't happen.
 
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The allegation of cold reading simply does not apply to crime cases. There's no one sitting there with the psychic with more information than they have. There's no possibility of manipulating someone to reveal secrets they were trying to hide. The police simply lack the information that can lead them to the body or the killer. And the psychic sees this information in the form of a vision.
 
Here's a few of the many cases Phil Jordan has helped solve:
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Case 16
Place: Spencer Police, New York
Case: Lost 5 year old child Tommy Kennedy
Psychic: Phil Jordan

Evidence produced: Although psychic Phil Jordan had never been in the woods where the lost boy was believed to be missing, this gifted psychic draws a most vital map. This map showed among other things: near a lake; three boats beside the lake; a building across from the boats; a waterfall; a field; a young boy under a tree. The child was found

Police response:The chief of the local volunteers Richard Clark said he was stunned at the accuracy of the map and the leads.

Detective Dave Redsicker said it was his first case working with a psychic. The leaders of the search, the police and the Tigoa County Search & Rescue gave unqualified credit to Phil Jordan for finding the missing boy. So much so that the Tioga County Sheriff had him sworn in as a Deputy to assist in other cases.

Source: The case has been documented in three books - Phil Jordan I Knew This Day Would Come: A Personal Journey to Psychic Awareness (Jordan 1999, 58 64). Jenny Randles and Peter Hough Psychic Detectives (2001, 86-88) - see Phil Jordan’s webpage http://www.philjordan.com/

NOTE: When a Skeptic wrote a book claiming that this case of Tommy Kennedy was a myth, Mary S Kennedy wrote on Amazon.com:

" [The Skeptic] should take his own advice: do the hard detective work. [He] never did his detective work on this story, that is to contact the principles involved in the incident.

I know because I am the child's mother, and I was never contacted. And I also know for certain that scores of volunteer firemen and policemen were searching for my son unsuccessfully, in the wrong area for hours. The next morning, Phil Jordan arrived, asked me for a personal article of Tommy's, and with Tommy's little sneaker, as well as hand drawn map of the area (an area which Phil Jordan had never seen before), Phil walked directly to my son.

Would Tom be alive today if it were not for Phil Jordan's God given ability? Probably not.

Believe in Psychic ability or don't believe, it makes no difference, but please don't deprecate a miracle. Because of Phil Jordan, I held my son in my arms again. There is no way that I can ever thank Phil Jordan enough. That's no myth, it's a plain and simple reality. "

Source: Mary S Kennedy on Amazon.com.
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47. Place: Boca, Palm Beach Sheriff’s Office
Case: ‘Sweethearts.’
Psychic: Phil Jordan

Cold case: Police had no more clues left, so they contacted the psychic Phil Jordan.
Some of the evidence produced: victims dead … bodies are less than a mile from here … they were here (actual place) having a good time picnicking … they were approached by two men … had had a shotgun the other a rifle … I’m sure (the victims) are dead … cause of death gunshot wounds to the head … bodies near a white house … seems to be a ramshackled house … I also see railway tracks … a depot … beyond that a sandy mold … (about the suspects): a Latino … dark hair, dark eyes … dark mustache …see a guard dog … during investigation … (helps with composite sketch of one of the suspect)… yes that’s him … (With this information the police were able to pick up the suspects) …

Police Comments: Captain Lou Sessa, Palm Beach Sherrif’s Office,
a) In looking back at the investigation and the use of psychic giving us key points that he (Phil Jordan, the psychic) came up with those hits … makes you think and wonder how they come up with this (psychic) information …
b) Detective J.P. Rerndell, Palm Beach Sheriff’s Office: Phil Jordan – the psychic had the investigation ability which was of great help to us … he just had it in a different (psychic) way.
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79. Case: PSYCHIC DETECTIVES (147) episode Lost in the Past.
Place: Vermont
Case: 'Lost in the Past'
Psychic: Phil Jordan

Police officer in charge. Detective Dave Schmall,
Sgt. Leo Blais Vermont State Police

Evidence produced – by gifted psychic Phil Jordon, very briefly, “I feel … a tug of war … a difficult decision … to stay with the present … She (the victim) was trying to make a decision as to whether to go with some man from the past or to stay with some man from the present … I see the initial R … relevant to this case …I see horses … split rail fence … maybe a riding ranch … I feel there would be a ranch near where there will be some important evidence … I feel chaos … trauma to the head … previous relationship … Judy is saying I have to get out of here … and suddenly she sees a gun … I feel there is a trauma to the head (was shot in the head) … (to the detective) … you are working with a homicide case … a crime of passion … I can see him burying her …” (This was the first time the police were informed that it is no longer a missing person case but a homicide case. All of the psychic’s information was confirmed to be correct by the police).

Police Comments: Detective Dave Schmall: “Phil’s (the psychic) impressions which he gave to me involved the education system … involved the indecision of the victim … involved the letter ‘R’ … involved the ranch type area … the blue gown vest .. all of this was used as corroborative … It is like a good piece of evidence it was something you could use as a tool … Under circumstances where it was necessary, I would use Phil (the psychic) again in a heart beat …”

Sgt. Leo Blais Vermont State Police, “ It takes a special type of person to be a psychic. I think some of them can be used for homicide or anything else.”
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72.PSYCHIC DETECTIVES episode: ‘Driven to Danger’.
Place: Lamar, Colarado
Case: Murder of male
Psychic: Phil Jordan
Police officers in charge: Detective Rick Black, Det. Rick Hollar

Evidence produced – briefly, by gifted psychic-medium Phil Jordan, “I see things as they actually occur as if I’m right there … I see he had an acquaintance … business deal … has to do with a transaction of a car … He has not skipped town …I definitely feel it’s foul play …I feel sharp pain to the head … like penetrating wound to the right side … he has died from a gunshot wound to the head … I see (suspect) with dark scruffy hair ... beard …dishovelled look …I’m getting water … still water like a canal. I feel the body will be found within ten miles from the last time where he was seen … I feel something will be found near the river but not in the river …somehow I can see a face but I cannot see a body with it …orange … the orange color is very important …the color jackets used by hunters … (some time later some five hunters together, wearing orange jacket find a skull … with a gunshot wound to the right of the skull …).
Police find the person the psychic Phil Jordan was talking about regarding a business deal of a car. Police successfully convict the suspect – got life imprisonment.

Police Comments: Detective Rick Black: “Mr Jordan was giving me an impression of the suspect that was accurate … at times it was eerie. Psychic Phil Jordan was strikingly accurate … the psychic always insisted that orange was critical …The psychic removed my skepticism … Where I involved in a similar case to this, I would most certainly use a psychic again.”

DETECTIVE Rick Hollar: “Having the psychic telling you what to look for is one thing … then when you actually find those things it certainly gives more credence to the validity of using a psychic …”
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69. PSYCHIC DETECTIVES episode, ‘Lone Wolf’.
Place: Schuyler County Police Department, New York
Case: Murder -
Psychic: Phil Jordan
Police Officer in charge: Sheriff Michael Maloney.
Police Forensic Expert: Herbert MacDonell

EVIDENCE PRODUCED: by gifted psychic Phil Jordan (very briefly): “I start perceiving images through this object (psychometry – through the victim’s hat) …I see this person who is a loner …he hears noises in front of the house …senses danger … I see this man in a bar … doesn’t look wealthy but he has a large roll of bills …there’s this man following him … (perceived through the killer): “I know this man lives alone …I know he goes to the Post Office … he goes to the store … that would be an easy hit to get money …” Phil Jordan says that burglary went wrong … (continues …). As I started to walk across the crime scene I started to receive impressions… I suddenly feel the impressions of the victim … I hear noises in the house … a man standing … I can’t figure out why he in my house … he started hitting me … knocks me to the ground … fell over … kicking … beating un-mercilessly …(Phil Jordan again) I don’t feel there is a gun or a knife … I feel they beat him with something … with a blunt instrument … killers took him to the cellar …even though the victim was found in the cellar, the murder took place upstairs …killers trying to get money … they didn’t find much money …but they found guns under the bed …and took the guns outside … but threw them (in the plant growth) at the back of the house …(immediately the police called for assistance to try to find the guns … and the police found the guns where the psychic told them where they would be …) … (Phil Jordan continues) … one of the perpetrators fled the State …had a history of crime …It’s a man in his 20’s …and has long hair, beard ,,, mustache …and not a really well kept person … Somehow the initial “J” is significant in this case … Someone will come forward with the information … an informant with the letter “J” … (Police soon afterwards receive information from an informant about the case from someone called John McCarthy who was told about the crime by the killers …. (Police eventually catch three of the murderers …and were convicted of murdering the victim) … ‘This case is like so many other cases where the police exhausted all leads and all their investigation … they have no new leads …no leads at all …that’s often when they contact me …’


POLICE COMMENTS: Police Forensic Expert: Herbert MacDonell “I have no way of scientifically explaining how he’s (the gifted psychic Phil Jordan) so accurate. Many things in this world we don’t understand … psychic phenomena is one of them …”

Sheriff Michael Maloney: It was just an extreme investigation and I think this was a testimony to Phil’s (the psychic’s) work.
 
Where would they get his "relevant information" about the location of the body and the identity of the murderer? Especially since nobody knew any of this at the time, except the murderer.

Oh, it's another of MR's "Shit I just made up so I feel better about my argument" moments! Lol!

Are you saying the psychic had no information about the murder prior to the "reading?"
 
Oh, it's another of MR's "Shit I just made up so I feel better about my argument" moments! Lol!

Are you saying the psychic had no information about the murder prior to the "reading?"

Information about the location of the body, how the murder was committed, or the name and description of the killer? Absolutely not! Are you saying someone knew these things and the psychic cold read that information from them? No..it doesn't happen like that.
 
Yes. That goes without saying. We report the successes not the failures in a field of research. Noone talks about how many time doctors got it wrong and gave the wrong diagnosis.

Actually they do; you read about big lawsuits all the time against doctors who gave the wrong diagnosis. Again, that's because it is very rare; modern medicine is pretty accurate. It got that way because we switched to evidence-based medicine and constantly review what works and what doesn't.

No..guessing is never a statistical certainty.

If you guess long enough it does indeed become a certainty. Basic statistics.

That's like saying the same person won the lottery 4 times. Doesn't happen.

Buy enough tickets and the same person WOULD win 4 times (as many times as they wanted actually.) No one wants to do that.

Psychics are like anyone else. They want respect and they want to make a living. Making as many predictions as possible, based on the best information they can glean from examination of the question poser, Internet searches, perusal of the local papers, using their local network etc is the best way to make that happen - so that's what they do. There's no magic to it.

Harry Houdini spent a good part of his life debunking psychics. He got very good at BEING a psychic to prove them wrong. He would accurately "read" people and "foretell" events and then tell people how it was done. He was so good at it that several people (including Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, the author) actually believed he was a psychic - even though he told them explicitly he was not, and told them how he performed his tricks.

But some people really want to believe.
 
Actually TV documentaries like these provide factual information all the time. There would be definite legal repercussions from the families and the police departments involved if they just made up details that never happened. You can't just make up shit and air it on tv claiming it really happened. The real world doesn't operate like that. Particularly on a subject as sensitive as a murder.

Except that it's an entertainment show, not a documentary. They make no attempt to verify the claims being made. The whole point is to provide fodder for suckers who believe in this nonsense.

That's only one of the three "arguments" offered against this so far: the psychic is lying about what really happened. The psychic just got lucky and guess it right. Or it's just a story made up by a TV show. None of these claims are based on any evidence. So perhaps it is you skeptics who need to beware not to offer arguments without presenting evidence for them.

All of those scenarios are far more likely than the idea that someone has psychic abilities. And you know this, otherwise you wouldn't lie to cover your own skepticism.
 
Except that it's an entertainment show, not a documentary. They make no attempt to verify the claims being made. The whole point is to provide fodder for suckers who believe in this nonsense.

LOL! They have the real police officers, the detectives, and the family members involved in the case. Everything is verified. Like I said, you can't just make up stories that never happened and present them as factual on TV.

All of those scenarios are far more likely than the idea that someone has psychic abilities. And you know this, otherwise you wouldn't lie to cover your own skepticism.

Not if psychics are real. If there is really such a thing as psychically-accessed information, then no, guessing or fakery is NOT more likely an explanation.
 
LOL! They have the real police officers, the detectives, and the family members involved in the case. Everything is verified. Like I said, you can't just make up stories that never happened and present them as factual on TV.

Lol! More lies. Or do you simply not understand the meaning of the word "verify?" Your youth is no excuse for that, I'm afraid.

Not if psychics are real. If there is really such a thing as psychically-accessed information, then no, guessing or fakery is NOT more likely an explanation.

Unfortunately, since there is no evidence of any genuine psychic phenomena, that's not a plausible explanation.
 
Lol! More lies. Or do you simply not understand the meaning of the word "verify?" Your youth is no excuse for that, I'm afraid.

So you're claiming psychic detective TV shows are all made up? Do you have some evidence to back this up? Or are we just supposed to take your word for it?


Unfortunately, since there is no evidence of any genuine psychic phenomena, that's not a plausible explanation.

Lying like this doesn't help your credibility....81 crime and missing person cases solved by psychics proves you wrong. See OP.
 
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LOL! They have the real police officers, the detectives, and the family members involved in the case. Everything is verified. Like I said, you can't just make up stories that never happened and present them as factual on TV.

I hope that's a joke . . . from War of the Worlds to 9/11 conspiracy shows to Bigfoot specials to modern day FOX News, there have been a lot of made-up stories that are presented in the media as factual.
 
I hope that's a joke . . . from War of the Worlds to 9/11 conspiracy shows to Bigfoot specials to modern day FOX News, there have been a lot of made-up stories that are presented in the media as factual.

No..you can't just make up a crime story and present it as factual on national television. Especially when it's backed up by the real police investigators and eyewitnesses involved in the case. What a strange little world you must live in. News stories and documentaries all just fictional lies. Wow..This takes the cake for bald denialism. How far will the skeptic actually go in denying the evidence? All the way evidently.
 
Originally Posted by cluelusshusbund View Post
Do you know of any psychic... who wit-in the last 5 years... has been sought after by police to find missin children.???


Ok... in both cases it was the psychic who sought out the police thru the tip line... but anyhow... why do you thank police departments dont have at least 1 psychic on staff.???
 
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