Why is Mary not the Mother Superior of the Church?

one_raven

God is a Chinese Whisper
Valued Senior Member
If the Virgin Mary was the product of the Immaculate Conception in order for Jesus to have a pure vessel, and God allowed her to be born with a soul that was free of Original Sin, and Original Sin is why we are mortal...
Why did she eventually die?
:confused: :bugeye:
 
one_raven said:
If the Virgin Mary was the product of the Immaculate Conception in order for Jesus to have a pure vessel, and God allowed her to be born with a soul that was free of Original Sin, and Original Sin is why we are mortal...
Why did she eventually die?
*************
M*W: This was an invention by the early church to hide the fact that the "mariams" ['rebellious women'] were temple prostitutes involved in what was called the "sacred marriage." "We must consider the possibility that each of the women [named 'Mary'] in the genealogy [of Jesus], including [Jesus' mother] Mary, was a sacred prostitute, a "qdesha," the holy woman who became the high priestess of the Sacred Marriage."

"There is a work called the "Assumption of the Virgin , openly condemned through the Decretum Gelasianum. Its description of her death and burial strips away another layer of the facade, the high regard in which Mary is presumed to have been held."

"The Assumption of the Virgin seems to be the first known attempt to explain the transitus,, Mary's alteration at death from an earthly to a celestial state. In spite of hostility towards it, the work had a massive effect on Christian belief and practice from about the fourth century onwards. Some biblical scholars have attributed the standard Greek text to St. John the Evangelist but its provenance is largely unknown. It was copied extensively in both Greek and Latin. The story covers the death of Mary in Jerusalem surrounded by the virgins who seem to have attended her throughout her life. It reveals an unusual incident that took place as the funeral party was making its way to the burial ground."

[Mary: The unauthorised Biography, by Michael Jordan, Weidenfeld and Nicolas, London, 2001]
 
one_raven said:
If the Virgin Mary was the product of the Immaculate Conception in order for Jesus to have a pure vessel, and God allowed her to be born with a soul that was free of Original Sin, and Original Sin is why we are mortal...
Why did she eventually die?
Because she was a homo sapien and as far as I know, no human has ever not died. That and the fact that God forgot to give her the recipe for the fountain of youth.
 
Mary was simply an instrument of God's. He could have chosen for someone in Africa or Asia to have given birth to Jesus, after all there were a lot of virgins back in the day..


And leave it to MW to bring heresy into a thread. :(
 
Maybe I should have been more clear.
I thought I was.

I was looking for the Christain explanation.
I understand that human beings aren't immortal.
However, Christainty makes the claim that human beings aren't immortal because of Original Sin.
They also make the claim that Mary was born without Original Sin (The Immaculate Conception).
If both are true, I would like to know why Mary was not immortal.
 
§outh§tar said:
And leave it to MW to bring heresy into a thread. :(
*************
M*W: And why not? Heresy against Christianity has been going on for more than 16 centuries. You might want to pull your head out of the sand and pay attention. Sixteen centuries of heresy against Christianity CANNOT be wrong!
 
If the Virgin Mary was the product of the Immaculate Conception in order for Jesus to have a pure vessel
This isn't quite true. I think you are implying that it was necessary for Jesus to be born of the Virgin Mary, but I believe the Church only says Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary.

and God allowed her to be born with a soul that was free of Original Sin, and Original Sin is why we are mortal...
Why did she eventually die?
It is not believed that she died in the sense that we do. Her body was taken upto heaven.
 
okinrus said:
This isn't quite true. I think you are implying that it was necessary for Jesus to be born of the Virgin Mary, but I believe the Church only says Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary.

What is the "Immaculate Conception", then?
Was it not the conception of a pure vessel for God's son (Mary)?
God decided she was going to be Jesus' mom since her conception.

On December 8th 1854 Pope Pius IX wrote the Ineffabilis Deus...
Quote from Ineffabilis Deus:
Declaramus, pronuntiamus et definimus doctrinam quae tenet beatissimam Virginem Mariam in primo instanti suae conceptionis fuisse singulari Omnipotentis Dei gratia et privilegio, intuitu meritorum Christi Jesu Salvatoris humani generis, ab omni originalis culpae labe praeservatam immunem, esse a Deo revelatam, atque idcirco ab omnibus fidelibus firmiter constanterque credendam.
Translation:
We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.
 
one_raven said:
If the Virgin Mary was the product of the Immaculate Conception in order for Jesus to have a pure vessel, and God allowed her to be born with a soul that was free of Original Sin, and Original Sin is why we are mortal...
Why did she eventually die?
:confused: :bugeye:


Mary was not born free of original sin. She was a normal woman. Do not confuse catholic dogma with Christian Doctrines.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Medicine Woman said:
§outh§tar said:
And leave it to MW to bring heresy into a thread. :(
*************
M*W: And why not? Heresy against Christianity has been going on for more than 16 centuries. You might want to pull your head out of the sand and pay attention. Sixteen centuries of heresy against Christianity CANNOT be wrong!

In that case, I suppose millenia of thinking the earth was flat "CANNOT be wrong" either.. :(
 
Adstar said:
Mary was not born free of original sin. She was a normal woman. Do not confuse catholic dogma with Christian Doctrines.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

exactly.

Jesus did not "inherit" from his earthly parents in the biological sense. God planned it long before Mary was born and He planned what He would appear to be (I believe Isaiah prophecies Jesus' ordinary appearance somewhere).
 
Are you gonna answer my question?
I believe since it is part of the Faith, but Mary has has been appearing and directing quite a few prophets and seers, most famous being http://www.amm.org/ Christians of course have before, however, believed in Mary's absolute purity. It would be odd the least for Mary to contribute anyway to her son's death, to which it is said that a her heart would be pierced.
 
Jesus did not "inherit" from his earthly parents in the biological sense. God planned it long before Mary was born and He planned what He would appear to be (I believe Isaiah prophecies Jesus' ordinary appearance somewhere).
I know what you are saying here, but Jesus obtained his human nature from Mary. If Jesus was not born of a women, there's no way he could be human, correct?
 
okinrus said:
I know what you are saying here, but Jesus obtained his human nature from Mary. If Jesus was not born of a women, there's no way he could be human, correct?

Did He? Why do you assume that? You think that God who created all matter and life could not start a new life inside a womans womb?


Matthew 1:20
But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

Was it of The Holy Spirit or was it of a union of mary and the Holy Spirit?
Did God need a wife to create Adam?
Did the Holy Spirit have intercource with mary?
Did God need marys genes?


Job
14"What is man, that he could be pure? And he who is born of a woman, that he could be righteous?

Do not allow human thinking to get in the way.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
okinrus said:
I believe since it is part of the Faith, but Mary has has been appearing and directing quite a few prophets and seers, most famous being http://www.amm.org/ Christians of course have before, however, believed in Mary's absolute purity. It would be odd the least for Mary to contribute anyway to her son's death, to which it is said that a her heart would be pierced.

Hiya Okinrus, Thanks for answering.

It was the bit where you said that Mary didn't die like we do that got me, I don't quite know how you got the idea that I may entertain the idea of Mary contributing anyway to her son's death...

Mary was a fully human virgin at the time of conception, as it is written in anyway, so why do you think she would die any differently?

Dave
 
§outh§tar said:
In that case, I suppose millenia of thinking the earth was flat "CANNOT be wrong" either.. :(
*************
M*W: That's another subject. For a period of time, the flat Earth theory wasn't wrong, but the people who said it was anything other than flat, were the heretics of the day. My point was that organized Christianity has had its followers for + or - 17 centuries. Its heretics have been going strong for more than 16 centuries. That tells me something was wrong to start with. That many people can't be wrong all this time.

It's been about 100 years since mankind's capability to drive and fly proved its heretics wrong. Not only that, mankind's ability to reach the moon and deeper space proved its heretics wrong only about 50 years ago.

My point was that Christianity has had heretics for a good long time, and we still are in the process of proving it to be a lie. The proof lies in the fact that Christianity is the fastest declining religion today.
 
It was the bit where you said that Mary didn't die like we do that got me, I don't quite know how you got the idea that I may entertain the idea of Mary contributing anyway to her son's death...
Everyone who sins has contributed to Jesus' death.

Mary was a fully human virgin at the time of conception, as it is written in anyway, so why do you think she would die any differently?
[/quote]
Without sin, decay and sickness would have no power over her. Of course, this doesn't mean that she would not die. Her death would just be more like Jesus' where her body does not corrupt and is taken up to heaven.
 
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