Why is gun control so difficult in the US?

Be careful when advocating for the removal of other's rights that do not matter to you.
We do not have the right to own RPGs and we should not have the right to own semi automatic weapons. By the way I have a semi automatic weapon. I'm sorry if this loss of this right interferes with someone's hobby but large magazine assault rifles are too dangerous in the hands of an idiot to allow them to be readily available for someone's hobby.
 
Guns are what keep the government in check so to speak . The People , can fire back .
What a stupid statement! If the military decided to take over, all the guns we have would be useless, the country would be under their control in in a few days. You clearly have no idea of how powerful our military is. Good luck fighting an apache helicopter with your AR-15. :rolleyes:
The way we keep the government in check is electing responsible leaders. OK, so maybe we're screwed....
 
To your last statement , so do I . But this not the point .

Guns are what keep the government in check so to speak . The People , can fire back .

I'm not in any way promoting insane use of guns .
Fear of losing your guns also keeps our government tyrannical.
 
anecdote
waterfowl hunting season and I hear:
BLAM, BLAM, BLAM
And I shout as loud as I can:
ONE SHOT ONE KILL
And the person who just fired(or a companion) answers back:
BLAM, BLAM, BLAM, BLAM, BLAM
Ok
so semiautomatic/autoloading shotguns are really quite common
and
a few years ago, I chanced upon some deer hunters, one of whom I knew
He had a semiautomatic shotgun with a rifled barrel
...........
When fitted with a rifled barrel, does a shotgun become a rifle?
and, by extension a rifled semiautomatic shotgun becomes a semiautomatic rifle
Would you ban these too?
.....................
I shoot with a rifle that can hold 5 rounds
I never load more than one
and that only when I see the intended prey animal
(personal choice)
.......................
Also, it just may well be that:
A well armed citizenry is the/it's only defense against tyranny.
..........................................
Try as you might, you can not legislate morality.
Pretending that you would arrive at the same destination through prohibition completely ignores historical evidence.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
 
=
There's no reason that freedom of speech can't be banned.
There's no reason that freedom of religion can't be banned.
There's no reason that freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures can't be banned.
There's no reason that trial by jury can't be banned.
There's no reason that freedom from excessive fines or cruel and unusual punishment can't be banned.
There's no reason that freedom of assembly can't be banned.
.....etc...(it's a long list)

Be careful when advocating for the removal of other's rights that do not matter to you.

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."


As an existentialists, when you speak for yourself, you speak for all of mankind.
Yeah, there's still no good reason semi-automatic weapons can't be banned.

And if they come for you, wave as you go past.
 
Article V:
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress;

OK so an amendment to repeal the 2nd amendment is possible
............
(good luck with that)
:rolleyes:
....................................................

I ain't gonna vote for it.
 
Why not apply such commonsense regulation to guns?
The only reason the government can get away with some of the crap it pulls with cars is that there is no Constitutional right to drive.

And that is not lost on US gun owners. That's one reason so many people don't trust their government to control guns - they suspect it would become another camel's nose matter, the way seat belts and driver's licenses and DUI offenses did. The argument from cars to guns is a threat, to anyone already sensitized to the capricious and arbitrary imposition and enforcement of car regulations. Threaten people, and they will oppose you. It's a tactical error, at best.
What a stupid statement! If the military decided to take over, all the guns we have would be useless,
That's a straw man. If you look at how actual tyrannies and despotisms take and keep power, you will not see conquering regular army involved very often. The usual means is death squads and and packs of thugs, drawn from the police and local criminal gangs. (Haiti, Honduras, El Salvador, Chile, Peru, Philippines, these places all had armies. The oppression came from the Tonton Macoutes, the death squads, special departments of the National Guard or police, etc) An armed citizenry does present a significant obstacle to this - which is why authoritarian rule always disarms its citizenry, in advance if possible. This was personal experience and family knowledge among those writing the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
 
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anecdote
waterfowl hunting season and I hear:
BLAM, BLAM, BLAM
And I shout as loud as I can:
ONE SHOT ONE KILL
And the person who just fired(or a companion) answers back:
BLAM, BLAM, BLAM, BLAM, BLAM
Ok
so semiautomatic/autoloading shotguns are really quite common
and
a few years ago, I chanced upon some deer hunters, one of whom I knew
He had a semiautomatic shotgun with a rifled barrel
I sometimes hear that during deer season and I always think, "well that guy didn't get his deer"!
When fitted with a rifled barrel, does a shotgun become a rifle?
No still a shotgun.
and, by extension a rifled semiautomatic shotgun becomes a semiautomatic rifle
Would you ban these too?
Sure.
I shoot with a rifle that can hold 5 rounds
I never load more than one
and that only when I see the intended prey animal
(personal choice)
Really? I thought the max round you could hold was 3 for hunting - it varies from state to state of course.
.......................
Also, it just may well be that:
A well armed citizenry is the/it's only defense against tyranny.
Ha ha, right the trained, body armored soldiers in tanks with air support from fighters jets are going to never defeat a bunch guys with AR-15s.
..........................................
Try as you might, you can not legislate morality.
Pretending that you would arrive at the same destination through prohibition completely ignores historical evidence.
Who is talking about morality? I am talking about keeping weapons of mass killings out of the hands of morons. Country's with out these liberal gun laws do not have the problems we have with mass shootings. It is kind of common sense.
 
That's one reason so many people don't trust their government to control guns - they suspect it would become another camel's nose matter, the way seat belts and driver's licenses and DUI offenses did.
Personally, I am glad that the government is trying to keep drunk people from driving cars.
 
Personally, I am glad that the government is trying to keep drunk people from driving cars.
Sure.
Except not, of course, by running transit after bar close.
And in your gratitude are you willing to overlook - say - random traffic stops of legal, well-behaving drivers without cause for the purpose of running a dog through their cars, searching their records for outstanding warrants, and testing them for impairment ?
Are you willing to overlook resources and time spent prosecuting people who endangered nobody, while drunks with multiple violations and a record of complete irresponsibility go free if they can afford the best lawyers?
The latest proposal is to lower the trigger level from .8 to .5, btw - a large fraction of human beings is not detectably impaired at that level, and poses no measurable threat to anyone.
Ha ha, right the trained, body armored soldiers in tanks with air support from fighters jets are going to never defeat a bunch guys with AR-15s.
Strawman argument. Using it casts doubt on one's agenda.
 
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That would be much hampered by universal background checks with no loopholes.
Only if people voluntarily complied, which criminals don't.
Hampering criminals reduces crime - in this case, gun crime. And this one would pick up a few head cases, flag people suddenly accumulating arsenals, flag straw buyers, etc. - all to the good.

And of course there are several other majority approved gun controls on the table - that's just one of the more famous.
I just told you that background checks don't hamper criminals, because they're criminals.
We don't know who is a straw buyer until we find the gun in the wrong hands, usually after a crime.
The ATF is already informed of multiple guns purchased at the same time, and unless someone is on the ATF/FBI radar, there's no way to tell who is amassing guns.
Yes, but the gun can be traced to the original purchaser. That's where you have a start in investigation.
Yes, start an investigation after you've already caught the wrong person with a gun, usually after a crime.
They are also illegal. Methods that felons use to get guns SHOULD be illegal, and the right wing should stop trying to keep them legal.
Who is keeping straw man purchases legal?
Even without a background check, transferring a gun to anyone not allowed to own one is highly illegal, for anyone.
Sorry, no. The rule he repealed allowed the National Instant Criminal Background Check System access to Social Security Administration data - including the names of individuals receiving certain federal mental health benefits. That allowed the NICS to identify such people.
Like restricting the gun rights of those on a "no fly" list, this Obama policy removed Constitutional rights without due process of law, itself a violation of Constitutional rights. And the ACLU was even against this Obama policy, on those exact grounds.
Before that, and still, the NICS already covers those "adjudicated" (due process) mentally defective or committed.
Sorry, again, no. If the transfer is approved, all identifying information of the purchaser must be deleted within 24 hours. From the actual law:

========================
From 28 CFR 25.9 (Retention and destruction of records in the system)

In cases of NICS Audit Log records relating to allowed transactions, all identifying information submitted by or on behalf of the transferee will be destroyed within 24 hours after the FFL receives communication of the determination that the transfer may proceed. All other information, except the NTN and date, will be destroyed after not more than 90 days from the date of inquiry.
=========================

Sounds like you are another victim of right wing fake news.
Nope. You're just ignorant. The federal government cannot keep such records because that would be a de facto national gun registry, that would be a first step in any confiscation scheme. The record retention I posted are the requirements for every FFL (gun dealer). So with a court order/probable cause (due process), law enforcement can check those records.
 
Only if people voluntarily complied, which criminals don't.
Nonsense. It allows prosecution of straw purchases, for example, whether the buyer wants to be prosecuted or not.
I just told you that background checks don't hamper criminals, because they're criminals.
You were wrong about that.
Who is keeping straw man purchases legal?
Everyone who opposes tightening the background checks and extending them to all sales is protecting them from prosecution.
Even without a background check, transferring a gun to anyone not allowed to own one is highly illegal, for anyone.
Knowingly. That's what the background check takes care of.
 
Another problem is that if you have a gun it's easy to kill 58 people. If all you have is a knife (or a truck) it is very, very hard to kill 58 people.

We should not be making the jobs of mass murderers so easy.
There were six replies waiting for me in this thread this morning, but I will reply to yours.

There is inherent risk in liberty. I personally don't see any need for a semi-automatic weapon, but I also see no need to deny that privilege for my neighbor. I suppose what it comes down to is whether we trust ourselves as a society to have such liberties, to manage them in a responsible manner. There will always be those who abuse liberty in a harmful manner. Do we want their actions to dictate our freedoms?

I don't have a problem with background checks, but I see limits in how we can reasonable control gun ownership.
 
Nonsense. It allows prosecution of straw purchases, for example, whether the buyer wants to be prosecuted or not.
How do you think straw purchases are found out?
It's by finding the gun in the wrongs hands, usually AFTER a crime.
You were wrong about that.
There you go just making noise again. Oo, oo, oo!
How do background checks MAKE criminals not buy from straw man purchasers?
Everyone who opposes tightening the background checks and extending them to all sales is protecting them from prosecution.
Again, how are you going to keep criminals from avoiding those background checks.
Person to person sales would still require honesty people complying with the law.
Do you think people can't sell a gun if they're not at a police station or gun store?
That's just silly.
Knowingly. That's what the background check takes care of.
No, it's illegal either way. Knowingly doing so just makes you more legally liable.
Again, only honest people would comply with any person to person background check.
 
How do you think straw purchases are found out?
It's by finding the gun in the wrongs hands, usually AFTER a crime.
Of course.
How do background checks MAKE criminals not buy from straw man purchasers?
By deterring straw buyers.
Person to person sales would still require honesty people complying with the law.
Only with large penalties attached to non-compliance.
No, it's illegal either way. Knowingly doing so just makes you more legally liable.
And with background checks required, you would be knowingly doing so.
Again, only honest people would comply with any person to person background check.
And those who feared the penalties of breaking the law, if the gun were found in a crime (or accident, or concealed carry application, etc).
 
Article V:
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress;

OK so an amendment to repeal the 2nd amendment is possible
............
(good luck with that)
:rolleyes:
....................................................

I ain't gonna vote for it.
Holy Christ on a Pogo Stick are you paranoid and delusional...

Seriously, if the US Military decided to take over, your precious five round rifle wouldn't do jack shit. You'd piss them off at best, and if it had come to an active military takeover, if you managed to piss them off enough to bother with you, I doubt you'd ever even hear the drone coming before you were dead.

I'm sorry, but if it came to a warlike action... the average US citizen is fucked if the Military were to disavow their pledge to defend the Citizenry...

There were six replies waiting for me in this thread this morning, but I will reply to yours.

There is inherent risk in liberty. I personally don't see any need for a semi-automatic weapon, but I also see no need to deny that privilege for my neighbor. I suppose what it comes down to is whether we trust ourselves as a society to have such liberties, to manage them in a responsible manner. There will always be those who abuse liberty in a harmful manner. Do we want their actions to dictate our freedoms?

I don't have a problem with background checks, but I see limits in how we can reasonable control gun ownership.

By your logic, then, we should do away with laws regarding drinking and driving, licensing for driving an automobile, and requirements for medical malpractice insurance, because we should just trust that our neighbors are intelligent, caring, and non-malicious people.
 
Holy Christ on a Pogo Stick are you paranoid and delusional...

Seriously, if the US Military decided to take over, your precious five round rifle wouldn't do jack shit. You'd piss them off at best, and if it had come to an active military takeover, if you managed to piss them off enough to bother with you, I doubt you'd ever even hear the drone coming before you were dead.

I'm sorry, but if it came to a warlike action... the average US citizen is fucked if the Military were to disavow their pledge to defend the Citizenry...
.

Holy Christ on a Pogo Stick----------------------sandals long robes and all--------lol

2 million in the us military including reserves.
What percentage would enforce tyranny?
How many citizens would fight for their freedom?
It seems that over 40 million US citizens are armed

and then
circa 1776 Britain had the strongest military-------it was said at that time that only a fool would face the British army in the open field.
they lost
(Washington had a secret derived from lessons he learned from his inept leadership as a British officer--------He knew that he did not have to win every battle, what mattered most was that he not loose the army.)
circa 1960s the us had the strongest military-----------did we win in Vietnam?
circa 2000s the us had the strongest military----------did we win in Afghanistan? Or Iraq?

While it seems easy to destroy a country's leadership, conquering the country as a whole seems to be a different matter

Maybe in some situations size does matter.;)
Maybe not so much so in military affairs.

...........................
that being "said" I am not impressed by my perception of the intelligence of the current "militia types".
 
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You miss one option for the US public: They have been told the rules CAN'T be changed, so they believe we're stuck with dead kids in the classrooms.

The USA parades its own Ego about talking about how great its Soldiers are and how they Cant thank them enough for their service etc etc etc.. and on and on it goes.
yet where the talk becomes the walk ..
they only pay them about $25,000.00 per year and they under cut their medical cover when they get injured so they cant afford medical treatment or medication incured while they were serving...

soo quantifying your comment to be their actual words of "we cant change it"
is in fact a completely different fact.
it is just a convinient lie that serves their purposes.

The Patriot Act ?
A Jury of their Peers ?
Right of assembly ... Right to gather in public(or private) spaces ?

whats that law about "Profiting from crime" ?
yet private prisons "profit from crime"


a selective excuse that panders to the psychopath...
 
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