Why is gun control so difficult in the US?

He has no right to even comment, since Canada has no stake in America's gun laws. Maybe he could move to California, get an illegal ID and vote?

Since Canada now has hate speech laws, maybe we could report him to the RCMP? He's guilty, obviously.

"Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Communist party?"
 
And yet, curiously, it is you who would throw out our constitution, laws and traditions to suite your current fancy/obsession.

Dare I declare "hypocritical bigot"?

If people like you insist on having the ability to create and implement the "law" as you please, there's no point in having laws, they become meaningless bits of paper. Traditions mean nothing, we don't tolerate sacrificing virgin daughters, burning witches or stoning people to death anymore. There's no need in a democracy to overthrow legal authorities who've been empowered and sustained by democratic means, so there's no reason to give people the right to do so. If enough people are pissed off like you, you have the power to overthrow whoever you want well before it comes to armed mobbery, so who are you scared of?

He has no right to even comment, since Canada has no stake in America's gun laws. Maybe he could move to California, get an illegal ID and vote?

Since Canada now has hate speech laws, maybe we could report him to the RCMP? He's guilty, obviously.

"Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Communist party?"

I can't stand Communists, nor any other type of personality that likes to assume authority for themselves by undemocratic means. And yes I have the right to comment, it's an international forum and I'm a registered member in reasonably good standing. Go complain to the RCMP for all I care.

BTW I've loaded and fired a handgun and an SMG, did it at a shooting range a couple years ago. I enjoyed the experience and I'd do it again if it didn't cost hundreds of bucks for 10 minutes of effective range time. I'd love to have gun rights just for myself, but I would trust very few others with them, and I'd be frightened of having swarms of criminals walking around streets and neighborhoods with cheap widely-available firearms of all sizes. Much happier not having to sleep with a gun under my pillow, apparently unlike yourself.
 
Do you not get the reference to Joe McCarthy? Why are you proud that you've loaded and fired a handgun? I've had a firearm of one sort or another since I was 12, and haven't killed anyone yet.

You're a fool if you think gun laws will disarm criminals, and you're a fool if you don't protect yourself and family from said criminals. Do you think banning knives in London will stop knife murders?

Edit: Hundreds of dollars for ten minutes of range time? Jesus, have they got you people snookered. Did you have to give a DNA sample when you signed in? A mental health check? No?

Did they have armed guards protecting the other shooters from a possible massacre, or are you only allowed wax squibs for your target practice? What SMG? Was it select fire or semiauto? Did Justin hold your hand?

I'm done. You don't want facts or reason, you just want to spread bullshit and signal your "wokeness". You're an asshole and an idiot.
 
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Do you not get the reference to Joe McCarthy? Why are you proud that you've loaded and fired a handgun? I've had a firearm of one sort or another since I was 12, and haven't killed anyone yet.

You're a fool if you think gun laws will disarm criminals, and you're a fool if you don't protect yourself and family from said criminals. Do you think banning knives in London will stop knife murders?

I mistook your reference, because you yourself sound a lot like Sen. McCarthy, accusing me of leftism and all. I'm not interested in a dick waving contest with you about who's more militant. I'm clarifying that I'm not afraid of guns or theoretically responsible people having them, I'm only afraid of criminals and hotheads like you having them. You only need to lose your temper just once, after all, and you sound like you're just itching for someone to give you the excuse one day.

I think banning knives in London would be huge, would have loved to have that in place last time I was there. No it won't stop knife murders, but it'll be a lot harder to be able to have one out for any length of time and not get spotted and arrested, and there will be a huge deterrent effect if the penalties for getting caught with one are stiff and the penalties for using one are even stiffer.
 
So, the point is that you're arguing that people have the constitutional right to form their own militias, and to possess (with little restriction) weapons appropriate for their militia duties.
No, I'm pointing out that the people of the US have a right to keep and bear arms suitable for being called into service in a well-regulated militia, should the circumstance arise.
So, the quote you highlighted notes that the units of the National Guard, while legitimately being considered military reserves, can also be considered to be state militia.
They can't be "considered" State militia, because they are not militia. They are not "considered" military reserves, they are legally and formally and explicitly established and organized and paid and trained and armed and commanded as a standing force of US Army Reserves. They are defined to be reserve forces of the US Army. That means they are not a militia. They are a branch of the Army. The US Army is not a militia, it is a military force.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_weekend_a_month,_two_weeks_a_year
And then of course there's the "State Defense Forces" underlying that, which are legally classified as organized militia.
They may or may not be militia - I don't even know what that refers to. There's an official State military force in Texas that calls itself a "militia", which afaik is unique - Texas is special in so many ways - and is of course different from the Texas Army National Guard, which is (as you can read here) the same as other members of the National Guard, a different and nationally affiliated military force: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_State_Guard.
Here's a picture identified as Texas Army National Guard soldiers deployed in Iraq: https://www.strategypage.com/humor/articles/oneweekendamonth.asp These are not militia.

Apparently many people think that anything organized at the State level is a militia, as if States could not have armies. That is a confusion.

There are unarguable militia active in Texas, and if you read their information pages they regard the State run "militia" as a regular military force, not a militia like themselves. http://www.texasstatemilitiacentral.com/about-us/ http://www.texasstatemilitia.com/about.html
http://www.texasmilitia.info
http://texascitizensmilitia.com (requires the purchase of an "AR-15 or comparable" firearm)

Most of the militia in the US - afaik all of them, actually, with the possible exception of the official Texas State Guard - are "unorganized", in the bureaucratic run-around language of the National Guard Acts.

And we still have the relevance problem. The US citizenry has Constitutional rights by the fact of being the US citizenry. They don't have to join the National Guard to receive them, as if they were some kind of earned privilege. They can even be old, crippled, wheel-chair bound, etc, and enjoy protection from arbitrary search and seizure, the right to keep and bear arms, and all the others.
 
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I mistook your reference, because you yourself sound a lot like Sen. McCarthy, accusing me of leftism and all. I'm not interested in a dick waving contest with you about who's more militant. I'm clarifying that I'm not afraid of guns or theoretically responsible people having them, I'm only afraid of criminals and hotheads like you having them. You only need to lose your temper just once, after all, and you sound like you're just itching for someone to give you the excuse one day.

I think banning knives in London would be huge, would have loved to have that in place last time I was there. No it won't stop knife murders, but it'll be a lot harder to be able to have one out for any length of time and not get spotted and arrested, and there will be a huge deterrent effect if the penalties for getting caught with one are stiff and the penalties for using one are even stiffer.

How can you judge whether I'm a hothead or not? How can you know that I've never voted for a Republican candidate before? What business is it of yours if I get angry at morons and not shoot them?

You are a fool: "Banning knives in London would be huge..."

Carpenters, cooks, painters, carvers and Muslim terrorists will just stop their trade just because Khan said so? As I said, you're a fool.
 
And people find the intransigent opposition to the political agenda of gun control advocates a mystery.

Well no, I don't think it's any secret that millions of Americans want to see gun ownership and usage severely restricted outright, and there's no reason for them to hide this desire, even if it frightens existing gun owners. If there was a middle ground both sides were interested in, that could be pursued, but it's not worth engaging in dishonest politics only to pull a bait and switch later. Among first world nations, America is a severe outlier in gun ownership, incarceration and murder rates, so it seems the "guns for everyone makes us safer" logic keeps running into the brick wall of reality.
 
How can you judge whether I'm a hothead or not? How can you know that I've never voted for a Republican candidate before? What business is it of yours if I get angry at morons and not shoot them?

You were just telling me how tough, manly and fearless you are with your mighty cannons to fight off any evil-doers who dare come your way, while I have to hide behind Justin Trudeau's kitchen apron as he strokes me with his milk-softened fingers and protects me from the bad guys.

You are a fool: "Banning knives in London would be huge..."

Carpenters, cooks, painters, carvers and Muslim terrorists will just stop their trade just because Khan said so? As I said, you're a fool.

No, terrorists will be more cautious and sparing about conducting their trade, because they will frequently be caught with knives even when they're not in the process of using them or planning on their immediate use, and the penalties will be severe before they've even had a chance to martyr themselves.
 
If a small minority of Americans in a small minority of states are able to prevent meaningful dialogue and change regarding current American gun policies, and mass shootings keep occurring as they do or increasing as more people become inspired, I don't see why states like New York and California can't just impose whatever state-level policy their voters feel is appropriate, and ignore whatever rulings come down from federal courts to the contrary. Let Alabama and Texas team up to kick them out of the union if they want, with Trump in charge enough of them want to leave as is.
 
Well no, I don't think it's any secret that millions of Americans want to see gun ownership and usage severely restricted outright, and there's no reason for them to hide this desire, even if it frightens existing gun owners.
It also frightens a substantial fraction of the reasonable majority, whether they own guns or not, splitting the majority vote in many elections. Which goes a long way toward answering the question in the OP.
I don't see why states like New York and California can't just impose whatever state-level policy their voters feel is appropriate, and ignore whatever rulings come down from federal courts to the contrary.
You would be surprised, I think, at what voters in New York and California find appropriate along the lines of ignoring the Federal Courts, rewriting the Constitution, etc.
 
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It also frightens a substantial fraction of the reasonable majority, whether they own guns or not, splitting the majority vote in many elections. Which goes a long way toward answering the question in the OP.

Ok, well if you think there's a reasonable middle ground approach which would gain enough support to make it into legislation, why don't you go ahead and spell it out?

You would be surprised, I think, at what voters in New York and California find appropriate along the lines of ignoring the Federal Courts, rewriting the Constitution, etc.

I don't know exactly where voters in those states stand on any of these issues, but I don't think they should be or will indefinitely allow themselves to be held hostage by an intransigent minority. I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time federal authority has been openly flouted by individual states, and I'm also sure that whether sections of the constitution contradict one another or which section overrides the other, depends on which judge you ask.

My only interest is to see the American majority ultimately have its way on gun legislation in their own jurisdictions, if a clear majority in favor of one position or another ever emerges.
 
Ok, well if you think there's a reasonable middle ground approach which would gain enough support to make it into legislation, why don't you go ahead and spell it out?
For the fifteenth time here?
I don't know exactly where voters in those states stand on any of these issues, but I don't think they should be or will indefinitely allow themselves to be held hostage by an intransigent minority.
They're being held hostage by two intransigent minorities.
My only interest is to see the American majority ultimately have its way on gun legislation in their own jurisdictions, if a clear majority in favor of one position or another ever emerges.
A clear and well-known majority in favor of several gun control measures has long existed.
 
For the fifteenth time here

I've seen you mention "reasonable policies" like a dozen times here, I haven't actually seen you outline any such policy. Maybe just give me a post # for reference so I can go look it up myself?

A clear and well-known majority in favor of several gun control measures has long existed.

Like I say, I haven't seen any thus far, but if you can reference a post then I'll go take a look. The way I see it, anything that permits average Joes to have assault weapons around the house and out in public isn't going to make a substantial difference, but maybe you can surprise me.
 
Man, they do have more than one use. I enjoy target shooting, as you might have noticed from my comments about having a range in the back of our property.

I'm not "afraid" whether I'm armed or not, and haven't been for a damned long time.
Why be competent at shooting a target other than fear of missing an attacker?
 
A clear and well-known majority in favor of several gun control measures has long existed
.
Like I say, I haven't seen any thus far - -
And we are supposed to take that seriously, do work to inform you of what has with complete certainty passed before your eyes at least a half a dozen times on this forum alone, and in the outside world is common knowledge?
Let's just throw in background checks, magazine restrictions, and special restrictions on "assault rifles" however they are identified. You never saw such proposals, you claim.

But you want to throw out the US Constitution because it interferes with laws you want to pass, and have London ban knives from its city limits.
 
Why is gun control so difficult in the US?
  • Because people prefer to use ranged weapons more so than to have no alternative but to engage in "up close and personal" combat. That preference applied to assailants and defenders.
    • Because many people are neither fit nor skilled enough to defend themselves adequately in an "up close and personal" situation, and they know it.
    • Because many people aren't fit enough to effectively flee from assailants who might chase after them, and they know it.
    • Because firearms are less expensive than are home security and other defensive systems than can stop all but the most determined, prepared and prescient of would-be assailants.
    • Because one must expend fewer resources overall to buy a gun and some bullets than it does to develop oneself to be very adept at "up close and personal" combat.
  • Because the other ranged weapon alternatives require a measure of skill and stealth/surprise that is difficult to achieve.
  • Because bullets are more easily transported than stones and arrows.
  • Because certain firearms are far more concealable than are bows.
  • Because there's a multibillion dollar industry that depends in part on anyone and everyone having the money and will to do being able to buy as many firearms as possible.
  • Because the 2nd Amendment debate has been framed in terms of stopping gun violence rather than reducing it.
  • Because "gun control" has been framed as "taking away your guns" rather than as "controlling the impetus for, incidence and means of undertaking gun violence." (That's pure marketing skill. The former is a pithy "tagline," whereas the latter has no similarly catchy and personal oversimplification.)
 
When written, militia was intended to be as well-armed as any standing military.
That was circumstance, accepted rather than intended. And that circumstance has changed. That was before modern technological innovations. The militia was differently armed even then, but that difference has become larger and qualitatively significant over time - putting modern military weapons in militia hands now would undermine the security of the free State, not enhance it, and such gear can be sequestered away from civilian hands without infringing on the citizen's right to keep and bear arms.
Win/win.
No, the active military was composed of the militia and its existing arms. There was no difference, nor was there any indication there was intended to be.
If anything, the changing circumstances would only lead the founding fathers to demand more parity with the standing military, not less. To say otherwise ignores everything we know from the Federalist Papers.
It does not make such a distinction between the weapons used by each.
Neither does it forbid such a distinction. It clearly makes such a distinction possible and allowed.
"It may be objected" on grounds that specifically dismiss the specified context of "militia" - as intentionally distinct, then and now, from "military" - would make no sense as an objection. The entire Amendment rests on the distinction between civilians and soldiers, the people and the army, the militia and the military, for its force and meaning.
There is zero evidence that militia is intentionally distinct from the people or the military, since the militia is given as justification for an armed populace, and could be called upon to serve the nation and form the military (select militia).
Again, the Federalist Papers and the anti-federalists leading up to the ratification of the Constitution argued against putting the people at the mercy of the standing military.
question: What are the odds of having to defend your home and family against armed intruders?
As far as I know most break-ins are done when there is nobody home.....:?
An estimated 3.7 million burglaries occurred each year on average from 2003 to 2007.

A household member was present in roughly 1 million burglaries and became victims of violent crimes in 266,560 burglaries.
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt
So roughly 1 out of every 4 burglaries.
Certainly not your life.
If you're home, to do any defending at all, it is your life and property (castle doctrine) you're defending.
The question was about the odds of being home and being robbed by armed robbers, who are willing to kill to get your toaster.

I did a little checking and it seems that the odds are less than 1 %.
As shown above, about 1 in every 4 burglaries.
p.s. I am a gun owner. My argument is not about the right to own a gun, it is about reasonable regulation.
Gun owner doesn't mean knowledgeable gun owner.
than why did the supreme court rule it was constitutional to do so for decades?

ok never got the supreme court because well no thought it was infringing on their rights. but the simple fact remains that what you claim with certainity cannot be done legally was done for decades with no having a problem with it. your argument relies on anachronism
What are you talking about? As far as I know, only large amounts of extra gunpowder were stored elsewhere. And British troops trying to take these is know as the Gunpowder Incident. All prior to the Constitution.
BTW no one seems to have mentioned having a secured panic room in the event of an armed break in. They actually do exist, they're affordable and effective, much safer than keeping a loaded gun around. Reinforced walls and doors, fire proofing, secure telephone connection and power supply, you take your family to hide in there while the criminals do their thing ransacking the rest of the house, and within minutes the cops arrive to save you and hopefully catch the perps.
A panic room that many people do not have the space for, cannot build in rental property, and costs way more than a 300 dollar handgun. Obviously not an option for everyone. And in the US, castle doctrine means we have a right to use deadly force to defend our property.
Probably a better source for such information than states that place gun profits over the lives of schoolchildren - or than organizations that have financial incentives to spread fear and ignorance.

When an organization that pushes for less gun regulation is paid by the gun sold, it's likely that they have motives other than gun safety.
So you think gun manufacturers and sellers make states enough tax revenue for them to overlook the illegal uses of guns? The only organizations spreading fear and ignorance seem to be ones like Everytown for Gun Safety, who have been called out for their deceptive propaganda, even by the mainstream media.
What organization "gets paid by the gun sold?" And wouldn't gun accidents discourage new gun sales by making them seem more dangerous?
Canada has loads of illegal immigrants too, and millions of regulated firearms (one for every three citizens), yet we still don't have anywhere near the murder rates you get in the US, especially from gun violence. I think a majority of Americans at this point would be quite happy with guns being regulated by people who overestimate their lethality rather than the opposite.
Estimates made by the federal government account for 100,000 illegal immigrants who are still residing in Canada.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_Canada#Statistics

Blacks Canadians 3.5%
Latin American Canadians 1.3%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada#Visible_minority_population


The most recent estimates put the number of unauthorized immigrants at 11 million in 2015, representing 3.4% of the total U.S. population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illeg...ted_States#Total_number_of_illegal_immigrants

As of July 2016, White Americans are the racial majority. African Americans are the largest racial minority, amounting to an estimated 12.7% of the population. Hispanic and Latino Americans amount to an estimated 17.8% of the total U.S. population, making up the largest ethnic minority.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States

Population size and composition makes a difference.
I define gun nuts as people who want to own guns or want others to own guns for the purpose of taking the law into their own hands, at times when law enforcement is theoretically capable of dealing with the problem, or who want the ability to defy legal authorities at a time of their own choosing.
It is legal, so it can't be taking the law into their own hands (vigilantism), and for the very reason that police are rarely on the scene the moment danger arises. And defying the law is already criminal.
 
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