Currently, 13 states can veto any constitutional change supported by the other 37, even if it's the least populous 13 states, and they can potentially do that with less than 50% of the popular vote in each state supporting such a veto.
Why is gun control so difficult in the US?
- Thread starter Saint
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Currently, 13 states can veto any constitutional change supported by the other 37, even if it's the least populous 13 states, and they can potentially do that with less than 50% of the popular vote in each state supporting such a veto.
That's not a gerrymander. That's just the procedure for doing something as fundamentally dangerous as changing the Constitution.
Insofar as the piece of paper you call "The Constitution" continues to be recognized and enforced by enough Americans, yes. And without going so far as trashing a flawed ancient manuscript or breaking up the US federation, I think there are legitimate ways of interpreting the existing document without allowing gun nuts to do whatever they please.
It's basically equivalent to gerrymandering in that any number of geographical divisions of the vote can lead to a small minority of voters freezing the situation in its presently flawed state. You'd probably need to convince at least 80% of the country to allow changes, with that support widely distributed in nearly all regions.
Sure. So?
And the farther we get from the US Army, the closer we get to something that might be a militia.
But we aren't getting any closer to relevance. Why is the fact that the National Guard is not a militia even coming up? Who cares? Nobody is arguing that the people of the United States have a Constitutional right to keep and bear the weapons of the National Guard. (Ok: almost nobody)
It's a gun control thread. The only thing someone trying to argue that Constitutional rights can be denied to people who haven't joined the National Guard contributes is an illustration of why sane and reasonable gun control is so hard to obtain in the US.
It's because "both sides" are dominated by crazy talk from authoritarian bullshitters, when people call a pox on both houses what remains is the status quo, and the status quo is not sane or reasonable.
I define gun nuts as people who want to own guns or want others to own guns for the purpose of taking the law into their own hands, at times when law enforcement is theoretically capable of dealing with the problem, or who want the ability to defy legal authorities at a time of their own choosing.
So, the quote you highlighted notes that the units of the National Guard, while legitimately being considered military reserves, can also be considered to be state militia. And then of course there's the "State Defense Forces" underlying that, which are legally classified as organized militia.
So, the point is that you're arguing that people have the constitutional right to form their own militias, and to possess (with little restriction) weapons appropriate for their militia duties. As far as I see it, it looks like the constitution only gives US citizens the right to be in a militia, not to form one of their own as they please.
Well, that lets most gun owners out. Theoretically, if someone is in your house threatening your family's safety or your hard-won possessions, you should wait for police who are theoretically able to deal with an unknown problem. Just suppose you live in the country instead of a shithole like LA. Theory gets a bit vague in the face of reality, don't you think?
Oh, wait. That's the whole point: You want to impose a coward's mentality on everyone just because the people you know are cowards. Or you are, or maybe something else from the DSM.
As I asked, please define control freak. Or just fuck off. Either way.
You can attempt to evacuate the house or surrender while you wait a few minutes for the police to arrive, both statistically safer and more reliable than starting a shootout. You want the ability to defend your home with firearms and have your shootout, even if that makes it easy for just about anyone to walk into a public square and unload on dozens or hundreds of bystanders, let alone smaller incidents of misuse. Also factor in that for every one of you with guns, that means there are more cheap, easily acquired guns available to criminals.
Oh and note: I don't oppose gun possession in areas where effective law enforcement isn't theoretically possible.
Right, you want to be a tough guy hero and make your own laws. I don't think most Americans would feel safe being around you if they knew your attitude.
Why don't you fuck off and go start a shootout?
If I were living in the US right now as a citizen, I'd have a gun myself, and I'd probably keep it on me whenever possible. Every time I've been in the US as a visitor, I've wished I could have a gun with me and would have felt safer for it. I've overheard random Americans angrily, drunkenly talking about shooting someone they don't like, and I've been in confrontations with people who owned guns and probably would have shot me if I stayed in town too long. And the only reason I would want a gun if I were living in the US, is because of all the nuts who want it to be legal for everyone else to have one so they can create chaos at a time of their choosing with the pull of a trigger, and all the criminals who have guns because of those same nuts.
It's my goddamned business because I don't want to live in a world where people like you create the rules as you please and enforce it with your guns, and I don't want to live in a world where people like you make it extremely easy for petty criminals to have them too.
You're the one launching personal attacks against me, so don't complain about assumptions. The world I want to live in is the one I do live in, and I hope one day Americans will have a chance to live in that world too. I'm a lot more afraid of criminals in the US than I am of the ones here in Canada, even though we have plenty of them even in my own area.
If you weren't afraid, you wouldn't own a gun.
sculptor
Valued Senior Member
And yet, curiously, it is you who would throw out our constitution, laws and traditions to suite your current fancy/obsession.
Dare I declare "hypocritical bigot"?