Why do you have to believe in fantasy to believe in God?

[Greatest I am]

Why do you have to believe in fantasy to believe in God?

Before you jump all over me, remember that I am not an atheist.
I believe in a Godhead that is of this world and the reality we see around us.
Mine is not the God you believe in because to believe in that one, one must buy into fantasy, miracles and magic. This I have no need or desire to do.

The O T, the base of the Bible, is a document that the original writers, the Jews, do not believe in a literal way.

http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/doubtingexodus.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGrlWOhtj3g

Further, believers tend to believe what is written about God even as whoever is doing the writing admit that God is unfathomable and unknowable and works in mysterious ways. A catch 22.

As an adult, do you not think it strange and immoral that you would preach to and teach your children that there are real talking snakes and donkeys, that people can walk on water, turn staffs into snakes and that a loving God would use genocide against humans?

This being after nearly all of his perfect works have somehow become imperfect and thus showing a creator God who just cannot create creatures that will do as programmed.

These things that are impossible to believe unless you have bought into fantasy, miracles and magical thinking.

As far as the non believing world is concerned, there is no such thing as miracles and magic. No believer has ever been able to show or prove that any miracle has ever been performed and it would seem to me that if God wanted us to believe in them, he would have left one here for us to ponder. He did not.

If your God did not do all of the miracles shown in scripture, is there anything left that shows a real God?

God would always want what is best for him as well as what is best for man.

Note that 6 million of us starve to death yearly. A yearly holocaust.
If God does have all of these miracle making powers, how can things not be exactly the way he wants for both himself and man?

Now I know that many will point to free will, but because the Bible shows God ignoring man’s free will to live when he kills us all over the O T, this negates that argument so I hope no one bothers trying to use it.

If you believe in reality instead of fantasy and magic, does your God disappear?

Does God have to be able to do miracles to be your God?

Regards
DL

 

[lightgigantic]

Why do you have to believe in fantasy to believe in God?

Before you jump all over me, remember that I am not an atheist.
I believe in a Godhead that is of this world and the reality we see around us.
Mine is not the God you believe in because to believe in that one, one must buy into fantasy, miracles and magic. This I have no need or desire to do.

The O T, the base of the Bible, is a document that the original writers, the Jews, do not believe in a literal way.

http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/doubtingexodus.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGrlWOhtj3g

Further, believers tend to believe what is written about God even as whoever is doing the writing admit that God is unfathomable and unknowable and works in mysterious ways. A catch 22.

As an adult, do you not think it strange and immoral that you would preach to and teach your children that there are real talking snakes and donkeys, that people can walk on water, turn staffs into snakes and that a loving God would use genocide against humans?

This being after nearly all of his perfect works have somehow become imperfect and thus showing a creator God who just cannot create creatures that will do as programmed.

These things that are impossible to believe unless you have bought into fantasy, miracles and magical thinking.

As far as the non believing world is concerned, there is no such thing as miracles and magic. No believer has ever been able to show or prove that any miracle has ever been performed and it would seem to me that if God wanted us to believe in them, he would have left one here for us to ponder. He did not.

If your God did not do all of the miracles shown in scripture, is there anything left that shows a real God?

God would always want what is best for him as well as what is best for man.

Note that 6 million of us starve to death yearly. A yearly holocaust.
If God does have all of these miracle making powers, how can things not be exactly the way he wants for both himself and man?

Now I know that many will point to free will, but because the Bible shows God ignoring man’s free will to live when he kills us all over the O T, this negates that argument so I hope no one bothers trying to use it.

If you believe in reality instead of fantasy and magic, does your God disappear?

Does God have to be able to do miracles to be your God?

Regards
DL

If you don't believe your ideas about god and what it does and does not stand for are fantasy, the answer should be obvious.

 

[Greatest I am]

I believe all of my ideas.
Thanks for your usual. Not much.

Regards
DL

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

Why do you have to believe in fantasy to believe in God?

No, it depends much on your definition of god.
I once heard a quote from a zen master: "Never teach anything to your children that is not your existencial experience". That is the natural way.

If you believe in reality instead of fantasy and magic, does your God disappear?

First, you don't need to "believe" in reality; reality is there, you don't need to believe in it. Belief is only necesary for the things you haven't experienced yourself.
And no, god doesn't dissapear if you only trust what you have experienced and never rely on beliefs borrowed from others.
God only dissapears if your definition of god includes some fantasy being from lah lah land.

Does God have to be able to do miracles to be your God?

No; because if "god performs miracles" then he is a being. And some people don't believe in god as a separate entity. The very definition of god as a separate entity is flawed.


"nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."

 

[wellwisher]

Small children love stories such as fairie tale. Small children are closer to natural than a young adult who has been indoctrinated into their culture. The rules of the indctrinatino are there to shut off natural that is not with the indoctrination program.

These tales appeal to small children because they have a natural connection to natural human animals. Their brains can process this information without much effort, across the board of small children. The cultural indoctrination is not as easy, or across the board, since it is not natural.

Even if religion was a fairie tale, it speaks to nature within, whereas indoctrination creates it own subjective realities. Politics is as much about fantasy and stories as reality.

 

[Greatest I am]

No, it depends much on your definition of god.
I once heard a quote from a zen master: "Never teach anything to your children that is not your existencial experience". That is the natural way.


First, you don't need to "believe" in reality; reality is there, you don't need to believe in it. Belief is only necesary for the things you haven't experienced yourself.
And no, god doesn't dissapear if you only trust what you have experienced and never rely on beliefs borrowed from others.
God only dissapears if your definition of god includes some fantasy being from lah lah land.



No; because if "god performs miracles" then he is a being. And some people don't believe in god as a separate entity. The very definition of god as a separate entity is flawed.


"nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."

How Gnostic of you. hence your name I take it. Never stop as it is a never ending quest.
I agree and Gnostic Christian is my closest label.
The Godhead is definitely a part of nature.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Small children love stories such as fairie tale. Small children are closer to natural than a young adult who has been indoctrinated into their culture. The rules of the indctrinatino are there to shut off natural that is not with the indoctrination program.

These tales appeal to small children because they have a natural connection to natural human animals. Their brains can process this information without much effort, across the board of small children. The cultural indoctrination is not as easy, or across the board, since it is not natural.

Even if religion was a fairie tale, it speaks to nature within, whereas indoctrination creates it own subjective realities. Politics is as much about fantasy and stories as reality.

True.

"Even if religion was a fairie tale, it speaks to nature within,"

Even if?
I would use the words since and is.

But it does speak to nature yes.
Unfortunately, if you read it literally, it tells you that nature is corrupted by God cursing the earth when man became as Gods.
Why God would do such a stupid thing is unclear.

Regards
DL

 

[Me-Ki-Gal]

I believe all of my ideas.
Thanks for your usual. Not much.

Regards
DL

Some people talk to animals . Me !! They talk to Me too. You all don't understand the language . It is based in clicks , scratches, sniffs, grunts and groans at different pitches . It is a pretty easy language . The concepts in the language are so far removed from artificial urban development that the language has become diminished in the average computer geek. Smell the roses bro

 

[Me-Ki-Gal]

Small children love stories such as fairie tale. Small children are closer to natural than a young adult who has been indoctrinated into their culture. The rules of the indctrinatino are there to shut off natural that is not with the indoctrination program.

These tales appeal to small children because they have a natural connection to natural human animals. Their brains can process this information without much effort, across the board of small children. The cultural indoctrination is not as easy, or across the board, since it is not natural.

Even if religion was a fairie tale, it speaks to nature within, whereas indoctrination creates it own subjective realities. Politics is as much about fantasy and stories as reality.

You guys are getting a clue , I can't believe it . Shit there is hope in the world

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

How Gnostic of you. hence your name I take it. Never stop as it is a never ending quest.
I agree and Gnostic Christian is my closest label.
The Godhead is definitely a part of nature.

Regards
DL

Gnostic christianity is for me the best form of christianity; they are not so dogmatic as others.
Some modern gnostic christians also study the literature of other sources like buddhism, egyptology, and even mayan mythology. So it is all good.

 

[Me-Ki-Gal]

No, it depends much on your definition of god.
I once heard a quote from a zen master: "Never teach anything to your children that is not your existencial experience". That is the natural way.


First, you don't need to "believe" in reality; reality is there, you don't need to believe in it. Belief is only necesary for the things you haven't experienced yourself.
And no, god doesn't dissapear if you only trust what you have experienced and never rely on beliefs borrowed from others.
God only dissapears if your definition of god includes some fantasy being from lah lah land.



No; because if "god performs miracles" then he is a being. And some people don't believe in god as a separate entity. The very definition of god as a separate entity is flawed.


"nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."

I spent some time in La La Land . We just say L.A. but some of the people there would rather you call it " The City of the Lost Angles "
Don't call Me flawed Bucko , or if you do say Perfectly Flawed . There is perfection in my Flaws . If you don't screw up you ain't doing anything . Ah Yeah Practice makes perfect , well maybe with a few product defects. There is one thing you said that kind of rings true . I want to be part of the group . Included ! The world has a tendency to look down on Me though . Preconceived Ideas that I am going to rip there lungs out. Only animals, so if you are not an Animal you have no worries . Animals I will shoot them first with my 30 06 and then gut them wid my trusty buck knife . I eat em too ., Cook there flesh in fire . Yum Yum . Fee Fi Fo Fum I smell the blood of an

I won't say it , Some guy from the U.K. with send a note to the mods . Deer ! was going to say deer

 

[Me-Ki-Gal]

Gnostic christianity is for me the best form of christianity; they are not so dogmatic as others.
Some modern gnostic christians also study the literature of other sources like buddhism, egyptology, and even mayan mythology. So it is all good.

Have you ever read the book of Judas ? Old Judas he understands the Great house

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

Have you ever read the book of Judas ? Old Judas he understands the Great house

Yes the Gospel of Judas is one of my favs, although I must say that for me the Gospel of Thomas is the greatest.

I like the part of the Gospel of Judas where the disciples were praying at dinner; and when Jesus saw this he started laughing like a small child. The disciples were puzzled (it says furious) off course, because they felt humiliated by Jesus so they asked him why he was laughing at them. To which Jesus responded that he was not laughing at them, but he was laughing at the idea of pleasing their god that way, and that was not the true god.
The things that are most puzzling about the Gospel of Judas is Jesus continuously laughing, but I think it is a better representation of the real Jesus than that of the canonical gospels. And also that Judas was one of the closest disciples of Jesus, if not the closest.

I once saw a documentary where they were trying to explain the theory that Judas didn’t betray Jesus, but Jesus was the one who willingly asked Judas to do what he did; there are many indicators about this spread through all of the Gospels if you know where to look. And the gospel of Judas supports this theory.

Too bad there are so many pieces missing from this sort of Gospels, they seem somehow “less polluted” by the hidden agendas of political men in power.

 

[Greatest I am]

Gnostic christianity is for me the best form of christianity; they are not so dogmatic as others.
Some modern gnostic christians also study the literature of other sources like buddhism, egyptology, and even mayan mythology. So it is all good.

Yes. Wisdom is found in diverse places.

Regards
DL

 

[Me-Ki-Gal]

Yes the Gospel of Judas is one of my favs, although I must say that for me the Gospel of Thomas is the greatest.

I like the part of the Gospel of Judas where the disciples were praying at dinner; and when Jesus saw this he started laughing like a small child. The disciples were puzzled (it says furious) off course, because they felt humiliated by Jesus so they asked him why he was laughing at them. To which Jesus responded that he was not laughing at them, but he was laughing at the idea of pleasing their god that way, and that was not the true god.
The things that are most puzzling about the Gospel of Judas is Jesus continuously laughing, but I think it is a better representation of the real Jesus than that of the canonical gospels. And also that Judas was one of the closest disciples of Jesus, if not the closest.

I once saw a documentary where they were trying to explain the theory that Judas didn’t betray Jesus, but Jesus was the one who willingly asked Judas to do what he did; there are many indicators about this spread through all of the Gospels if you know where to look. And the gospel of Judas supports this theory.

Too bad there are so many pieces missing from this sort of Gospels, they seem somehow “less polluted” by the hidden agendas of political men in power.

there is one part in that book that talks about Judas's dream coming to the Great House and the Great House lets him in and little laughy Jesus gets a little mad about . Saying no one gets in the Great House but Me attitude . Jesus was wrong . Judas lives in the Great House right now . I let him in . He is my friend and I love him

 

[yaracuy]

Why do you have to believe in fantasy to believe in God?



If your God did not do all of the miracles shown in scripture, is there anything left that shows a real God?

God would always want what is best for him as well as what is best for man.


If you believe in reality instead of fantasy and magic, does your God disappear?

Does God have to be able to do miracles to be your God?

Regards
DL

How do you believe in God
Should I pray to God To help me in my condition and have faith ?


I believe God helps who helps himself >

 

[Greatest I am]

How do you believe in God
Should I pray to God To help me in my condition and have faith ?

Hope is good. Faith without facts is for fools as faith as Martin Luther says, is anathema to logic and reason.

Especially if it is faith in the genocidal O T God that your fait draws you to.

I believe God helps who helps himself >

If you are busy helping yourself, what need have you of some invisible and unfathomable God?

Regards
DL

 

[NMSquirrel]

Why do you have to believe in fantasy to believe in God?

you do not have to believe in fantasy to believe in God..

Further, believers tend to believe what is written about God even as whoever is doing the writing admit that God is unfathomable and unknowable and works in mysterious ways. A catch 22.

at this point i would argue a seperation between believers and religico's..some one elses word,seems to describe those that believe in the religion more than they believe in God.
and i would argue for the fact that the churched teach God is unknowable then proceed to act like only they know what God is about.

This being after nearly all of his perfect works have somehow become imperfect and thus showing a creator God who just cannot create creatures that will do as programmed.

not for a second do i believe God is a 'do as your told' God..
he had the angles for that, he doesn't need us for that.

If your God did not do all of the miracles shown in scripture, is there anything left that shows a real God?

yes, but no one believes the evidence until they experience it themselves..

God would always want what is best for him as well as what is best for man.

i am not so sure the word 'best' applies..

Note that 6 million of us starve to death yearly. A yearly holocaust.
If God does have all of these miracle making powers, how can things not be exactly the way he wants for both himself and man?

i believe God 'taps' us to do something for someone else, completely random,it is still our choice to act or not, we tend to blame God for humanities failures.
IE: person one walks past an alley and see's some one getting mugged,
he has two choices, to act or not to act
who's fault would it be if he choose not to act?
it could even be as simple as just saying 'hi' to a random stranger, specially if that stranger is the one headed for the mugging (you just delayed him enough to miss the muggers)

Now I know that many will point to free will, but because the Bible shows God ignoring man’s free will to live when he kills us all over the O T, this negates that argument so I hope no one bothers trying to use it.

then the question becomes did the authors credit God when they should not have? IOW there was alot they did not know that they left at 'God did it' i am sure that got into the bible.

Does God have to be able to do miracles to be your God?

great question.
no he doesn't.

And i still have issues with the whole 'your God,my God' concept..

 

[NMSquirrel]

Yes the Gospel of Judas is one of my favs, although I must say that for me the Gospel of Thomas is the greatest.

do you have a link to an online version?

and what about the verse which says he gave a deaf man a wet willy?

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

do you have a link to an online version?

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

and what about the verse which says he gave a deaf man a wet willy?

LOL, what about it? (the Lazarus story is in the biblical canon)