Why do you believe in God?

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EmptyForceOfChi

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A continuation for those of you who wanted to see what happens next in the 'S.A.M Why do you believe in God' Thread. PART 2.

Other people feel free to say why you yourself believe in god, or ask others why they do.


On the last episode we saw this.

Why do you believe in God?

Norsefire
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S.A.M.
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord (44,397 posts)
Yesterday, 06:11 PM #2

Why?

S.A.M.
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(Q)
Spa Encephalonean (12,816 posts)
Yesterday, 06:51 PM #3

“ Originally Posted by Norsefire
Why do you believe in God? ”

Can the indoctrinated answer this question? Not likely.

(Q)
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Cris
In search of Immortality (8,359 posts)
Yesterday, 06:58 PM #4

Institutionalized conditioning from birth. She has been taught from birth that atheists are to be hated and despised, and that theism is the only acceptable way of life. She doesn't know why, she is only able to respond according to the effects of her brain washing.

I say this based on the thousands of posts she has made, her absolute vehemence against anything remotely atheistic, and her consistent avoidance at answering any question that raises the idea that theism might not be rational.

Cris
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S.A.M.
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord (44,397 posts)
Yesterday, 07:01 PM #5

Apparently the un-doctrinated are far too willing to jump in with their theories. Most amusing.

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Cris
In search of Immortality (8,359 posts)
Yesterday, 07:03 PM #6

Theories? Observation of your posting record here, surely?

Cris
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S.A.M.
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord (44,397 posts)
Yesterday, 07:05 PM #7

Of course. Like I always say, research is less and less about the data, more and more about the personalized interpretation of it.

Do carry on.

S.A.M.
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Michael
kabuki theater (7,215 posts)
Yesterday, 07:14 PM #8

Most people who are atheist here were raised monotheist.

Michael
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S.A.M.
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord (44,397 posts)
Yesterday, 07:16 PM #9

Not Cris and (Q). They were raised "without religion", although (Q) shows a reluctant partiality to Judaism and may be that strange creature, an atheist Jew.

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(Q)
Spa Encephalonean (12,816 posts)
Yesterday, 07:22 PM #10

“ Originally Posted by S.A.M.
Not Cris and (Q). They were raised "without religion", although (Q) shows a reluctant partiality to Judaism and may be that strange creature, an atheist Jew. ”

Oh no, my father was a bishop and my mother was a nun. They were both trapped in the woods for several weeks together after a plane crash and fell in love. He's now a southern-baptist minister and she runs a whore house, in the same building, of course.

I was brought up wiring the pulpit for sound and running shotgun for the girls on the other side of the house.

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S.A.M.
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord (44,397 posts)
Yesterday, 07:24 PM #11

That sounds more like Peter Brooks Mahabharata.

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SnakeLord
snakeystew.com (5,336 posts)
Yesterday, 07:36 PM #12

I notice the original question hasn't been answered. It's strange because the question wasn't that difficult and surely to any other person would not be overpassed in favour of insulting some atheists.

So anyway, Sam.. why do you believe in a god? Simple question really..

SnakeLord
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S.A.M.
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord (44,397 posts)
Yesterday, 07:41 PM #13

That would be too easy.

but if you're really interested, I've already had this discussion with Pete

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SnakeLord
snakeystew.com (5,336 posts)
Yesterday, 07:43 PM #14

“ That would be too easy ”

Nope, bad luck. You were close - you sort of understood the question, you just didn't manage the answer. Before you try again perhaps I can help.. Start off with:

"I believe in a god because..." and fill in the answer from there. Don't despair, you'll understand it eventually.

SnakeLord
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Betrayer0fHope
The Police Officer (867 posts)
Yesterday, 08:17 PM #15

“ Originally Posted by Michael
Most people who are atheist here were raised monotheist. ”

I was raised polytheistic.

She wants to say she believes it because it's the logical/rational answer, but she knows that it makes no fucking sense.

Betrayer0fHope
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Michael
kabuki theater (7,215 posts)
Yesterday, 08:36 PM #16

“ Originally Posted by Betrayer0fHope
I was raised polytheistic.

She wants to say she believes it because it's the logical/rational answer, but she knows that it makes no fucking sense. ”

are you still polytheistic? Also, what sort of gods were you raised to believe in?

Michael
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James R
Administrator (15,369 posts)
Yesterday, 08:37 PM #17

This is a single-issue thread directed at a single poster. That poster has answered the question, so there's no need for the thread to remain open.

James R
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Cris
In search of Immortality (8,359 posts)
Today, 02:43 PM #18

James,

I saw no harm in this providing it remained civil. SAM targets individuals directly in thousands of posts, this thread seemed quite appropriate as she is the dominant poster here.

However, I will not override your decision to lock, but I was wary.
Click to expand...



On todays episode we catch up with S.A.M and the militant Atheist boys as the journey continues to find out why people believe in God and why some people care so much if they do.



peace.
 
Actually, I believe God exists based on my own observation and interpretation of the universe; luckily, I am not one of those theists that simply believes because a book told me to.

Consciousness is a key factor in my belief in God. Not "because it exists, God did it", but rather, let's closely examine consciousness. If consciousness does indeed emerge from complexity, is it then not rational to conclude that the universe may be one single consciousness? Or, if not to conclude, then to suggest the idea. The universe might be a single, "supreme" conscious being, an emergent property of the complexity of the universe. Our consciousness, rather than dying, may join this "supreme" consciousness, aka God.

Another issue is the universe existing. An infinite regression is implausible and illogical; at first, I thought the God situation also suffered the same problem. But remember, "time" didn't necessarily exist before the universe, therefore chronoligical order is irrelevant. "God" could certainly, therefore, be "timeless"
 
Consciousness is a key factor in my belief in God. Not "because it exists, God did it", but rather, let's closely examine consciousness. If consciousness does indeed emerge from complexity, is it then not rational to conclude that the universe may be one single consciousness? Or, if not to conclude, then to suggest the idea. The universe might be a single, "supreme" conscious being, an emergent property of the complexity of the universe. Our consciousness, rather than dying, may join this "supreme" consciousness, aka God.
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I hate it when theists start trying to use "logic" to validate their faith. Just admit you take the leap, and own it. Enough of the phony, backwards, cereal box logic that isn't logic at all.
 
JDawg said:
I hate it when theists start trying to use "logic" to validate their faith. Just admit you take the leap, and own it. Enough of the phony, backwards, cereal box logic that isn't logic at all.
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It most certainly is logic. If consciousness is an emergent property of complexity, then consciousness can exist anywhere there is complexity. The universe is quite complex.
 
If consciousness is an emergent property of complexity, then consciousness can exist anywhere there is complexity
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That is an absurd leap. I'd say "and you know it", but sadly...I don't think you do...
 
My point is quite simple, it depends on how we are thinking of God, and what we know of reality. Our reality around us exists only as long as we can perceive it. Consciousness is key.

A "supreme consciousness" isn't an implausible idea, and it explains God. The universe being one consciousness
 
Our reality around us exists only as long as we can perceive it.
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All evidence says otherwise. My personal consciousness is not required for you to exist.

A "supreme consciousness" isn't an implausible idea, and it explains God. The universe being one consciousness
Click to expand...

A "supreme consciousness" does not imply that the universe would be it, first of all. Secondly, it may not be impossible, but it's highly implausible. There is no evidence of consciousness on behalf of the universe.
 
JDawg said:
All evidence says otherwise. My personal consciousness is not required for you to exist.
Click to expand...
Very true. However, without any consciousness, there is no perception and no sense of existence. Consciousness is key in knowing that you exist.

A "supreme consciousness" does not imply that the universe would be it, first of all. Secondly, it may not be impossible, but it's highly implausible. There is no evidence of consciousness on behalf of the universe.
Click to expand...

Well, whatever it is, maybe not the universe, I don't know. However, do you think there is more to the universe than we can sense with our five senses? I'm not speaking about supernatural things, but simply things we can't sense with our limited senses that are there.

Consciousness is perhaps the least understood phenomenon of all; we don't understand how it comes to be or what causes it or even what it is. A "supreme" consciousness would explain all of the religious claims about meeting with a "perfect being" after death, and that ties in to other immortality theories about consciousness.
 
Very true. However, without any consciousness, there is no perception and no sense of existence. Consciousness is key in knowing that you exist.
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Is it? How do you know?

However, do you think there is more to the universe than we can sense with our five senses? I'm not speaking about supernatural things, but simply things we can't sense with our limited senses that are there.
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Of course there is. We can only perceive three spacial dimensions, and time, and we know there are more than that, so it's safe to say that there are things to this universe we can't feel or see.

Consciousness is perhaps the least understood phenomenon of all; we don't understand how it comes to be or what causes it or even what it is.
Click to expand...

This is true. Which is why you making outrageous assumptions about it is so freaking laughable.

A "supreme" consciousness would explain all of the religious claims about meeting with a "perfect being" after death, and that ties in to other immortality theories about consciousness.
Click to expand...

So would "imagination".

Because we are a logical creature, when we first saw these amazing things--thunderstorm, lightning, earthquakes, floods, the sun--wouldn't it make sense that we would attribute them to a being that would be much greater than us?

And there are no "immortality theories".
 
JDawg/Norsefire-Faith is choosing to believe in something without evidence. "Logical thought" exits stage right when it comes to this. I have faith in God, in Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Spirit. I have no evidence they exist. I choose to believe they exist. Looking at the universe, geology, evolution, math, biology. Nowhere is there "evidence" of God. We can suggest that anything points to the existence or nonexistence of God. I know christians who say,"Look at how complex man is. How can that evolve?" My response is,"If it was created by God, it seems very poorly designed. Why an appendix? Why make the heart so thin? Why include a possibilty for genetic mutation?" They get irritated. An atheist says,"We have scientific evidence through the fossil record of evolution. Thus, no creation, no God." I say to them,"You can't even prove that the universe existed a few seconds ago, but you claim to have disproven God. Interesting. If God did things differently from the Biblical story, how does this disprove God?" They sputter for awhile and spout odd nonsense in response. The fact is that God is not trying to be "proven" he is trying to be "chosen with a lack of evidence"
 
Mr. Hamtastic said:
JDawg/Norsefire-Faith is choosing to believe in something without evidence. "Logical thought" exits stage right when it comes to this. I have faith in God, in Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Spirit. I have no evidence they exist. I choose to believe they exist. Looking at the universe, geology, evolution, math, biology. Nowhere is there "evidence" of God. We can suggest that anything points to the existence or nonexistence of God. I know christians who say,"Look at how complex man is. How can that evolve?" My response is,"If it was created by God, it seems very poorly designed. Why an appendix? Why make the heart so thin? Why include a possibilty for genetic mutation?" They get irritated. An atheist says,"We have scientific evidence through the fossil record of evolution. Thus, no creation, no God." I say to them,"You can't even prove that the universe existed a few seconds ago, but you claim to have disproven God. Interesting. If God did things differently from the Biblical story, how does this disprove God?" They sputter for awhile and spout odd nonsense in response. The fact is that God is not trying to be "proven" he is trying to be "chosen with a lack of evidence"
Click to expand...
Then why believe in God?
 
Norsefire-If I choose to believe in God, and I am wrong, I have not lost anything. If I choose to not believe in God and I am wrong, I will be in a much worse position. I believe this is the reason given by the french mathematician Pascal, as well.
 
JDawg/Norsefire-Faith is choosing to believe in something without evidence.
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That's what I'm talking about, Ham. I just don't understand why a believer wouldn't just say that. I'm so sick of it when they try to rationalize it, or worse, when they try to twist science to make it sound like a reasonable argument. Please. It's faith, which by nature means it's irrational.
 
I often feel sorry for theists. They are either ignorant of how unreasonable their position is, or they must live in a fantasy world because they cannot cope otherwise.
 
As an atheist I can only offer one reason why I might have believed in God.

Simply put, God is not here nor has He ever been nor does He wish to be known. One cannot accept the words of men for God's existence, it is pure folly. So it stands to reason that God, should He exist, never once has made His presence known to mankind. Therefore one can only conclude that God at this particular time, and lacking any evidence of, is not here or does not wish to be known to us.

Now that only leaves believers with one thing...... God wishes to not be known. If you believe then this is what you must accept. It is the only way God can exist. He is, but wishes to remain unknown. Once you've accepted that then it is easy to accept that all religion is mythology.

So if you want God, then be prepared to know nothing about Him. That is His preference as all the evidence or lack of evidence points to.
 
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