Who's A Better Farmer?

[J.B]

White people are largely responsible for the current economic and social circumstances that many black Americans find themselves in today.

Is there any other group of people that "White people are largely responsible" for?

 

[James R]

Is there any other group of people that "White people are largely responsible" for?

I didn't say that there is any group of people that white people are largely responsible for. Read more closely.

 

[Oniw17]

Is there any other group of people that "White people are largely responsible" for?

Ther's white people, you know for all the people we've stolen off of, slaughtered and enslaved. That in itself is enough to be responsible(or irresponsible) for.

 

[Baron Max]

I didn't say that there is any group of people that white people are largely responsible for. Read more closely.

If you consider black people as individuals, as you seem to always do, how can you then consider that "white people", as a group, are responsible for the woes of the black people? Why don't you view white people as individuals in the same way as you do black people? (as you've done in several previous posts in this thread)

Baron Max

 

[J.B]

Note that this is not an all-inclusive statement. Read "white people" not as "ALL white people", but as "a particular sub-set of white people".

Are you able to explain who, what or where are these "particular sub-set of white people" that you speak of?

 

[J.B]

White people are largely responsible for the current economic and social circumstances that many black Americans find themselves in today.

When a dog misbehaves, we don't blame the dog -- we blame the owner for improper training. In Africa, when blacks behave badly, colonialism, imperialism, apartheid, globalization or multi-nationalism is blamed for not bringing up blacks properly. Liberals saw South Africa's apartheid and other human-rights abuses as unjust because blacks were suffering at the hands of whites. They hold whites accountable to civilized standards of behavior. Blacks are not held to civilized standards of behavior. From the liberal's point of view, it might even be racist to expect blacks to adhere to civilized standards of behavior.

 

[Muslim]

No one said anything about the valuable points I raised.

 

[J.B]

"Islam has come to Negro Africa as a great blessing, raising up savages to a state, at any rate, of semi-civilization, making them God-fearing, self-respecting and picturesque." - Sir Harry Johnston

Islam's violent teachings and the Negros low IQ's and high testosterone levels,

will be a bad combination for the civilized people of this planet to have to deal with.

 

[James R]

If you consider black people as individuals, as you seem to always do, how can you then consider that "white people", as a group, are responsible for the woes of the black people? Why don't you view white people as individuals in the same way as you do black people? (as you've done in several previous posts in this thread)

Welcome back, Baron Max.

I have never claimed that ALL white people are responsible for the racial problems America has.

Are you able to explain who, what or where are these "particular sub-set of white people" that you speak of?

Sure. Look at the white leaders who made the discriminatory laws which resulted in black oppression in the US. Look at the white people who elected leaders who espoused such policies. Look at the middle-class white people who excluded black people from their neighbourhoods, certain types of employment etc. etc.

When a dog misbehaves, we don't blame the dog -- we blame the owner for improper training.

People are not "owned". That concept amounts to slavery.

In Africa, when blacks behave badly, colonialism, imperialism, apartheid, globalization or multi-nationalism is blamed for not bringing up blacks properly.

No. You should research the effects of colonialism on disrupting traditional societies, for example. Clearly, you know next to nothing about it. Colonialism wasn't conducted by consent, but by force. Look it up.

Liberals saw South Africa's apartheid and other human-rights abuses as unjust because blacks were suffering at the hands of whites. They hold whites accountable to civilized standards of behavior. Blacks are not held to civilized standards of behavior.

An empty claim.

From the liberal's point of view, it might even be racist to expect blacks to adhere to civilized standards of behavior.

Another empty claim.

 

[Baron Max]

You should research the effects of colonialism on disrupting traditional societies, for example. Clearly, you know next to nothing about it. Colonialism wasn't conducted by consent, but by force.

Didn't the same things occur with/against white people in Europe throughout history? White people taking lands by force from other white people? And yet white people continued to survive and thrive ...and didn't whine about it throughout their lives. Why not blacks?

Look at the white leaders who made the discriminatory laws which resulted in black oppression in the US. Look at the white people who elected leaders who espoused such policies.

But now that it's over, why keep blaming the white descendants for what happened hundreds of years ago? And how long does that keep going? Is it something like the feud of Hatfields and the McCoys ...to continue forever?

And didn't similar things happen to whites in history? And did those white people continue to whine about it for thousands of years? Weren't the Jews systematically discriminated against in Europe at one time? Are the Jews still living in ghettos and blaming the whites for their woes?

Didn't early American laws discriminate against the Chinese? And yet the Chinese aren't blaming the whites, are they? Are they living in ghettos and whining about conditions? No, they've adapted and are thriving, successful members of the American society.

Look at the middle-class white people who excluded black people from their neighbourhoods, certain types of employment etc. etc.

Sounds quite similar to what happened to the Irish that immigrated to the USA in the early days of the nation. And the Chinese? Yet the Irish assimilated and became valued members of society. So, too, did the Chinese. And neither the Irish nor the Chinese have held onto some foolish blame-game, constantly blaming the whites for their woes. Why can't blacks do that?

I have never claimed that ALL white people are responsible for the racial problems America has.

I don't know, James, it seems to me that your posts DO claim that all white people are responsible. And it's consistent with your ideal that whites make some kind of special effort for the blacks in attonment of those early wrongs ...otherwise, why even bring up those early wrongs?

In fact, for that matter, why are we even talking about "whites" and "blacks"? Why aren't we talking about SPECIFIC white individuals who have wronged SPECIFIC black individuals? We should be talking about taking Thomas Jefferson and Joe Plantation-owner to court for personal injury to individual blacks.

Baron Max

 

[James R]

Baron Max:

Didn't the same things occur with/against white people in Europe throughout history? White people taking lands by force from other white people?

Please give examples of white people colonising the lands of other white people, and subjugating or committing genocide against the previous white inhabitants. Choose examples where there were no flow-on effects of that, too.

And yet white people continued to survive and thrive ...and didn't whine about it throughout their lives. Why not blacks?

Are you talking only about America here? I wasn't. And what makes you think black people "whine" any more than white people (such as yourself, for example)?

But now that it's over, why keep blaming the white descendants for what happened hundreds of years ago?

Segregation in the United States did not happen hundreds of years ago. And in any case if you think the complaints are about attributing blame, you're asking the wrong questions.

Also, what makes you think its "all over" now? Do you actually believe there are no ongoing effects of segregation and official discrimination in the United States? I thought I'd explained this to you previously? Did you forget?

Weren't the Jews systematically discriminated against in Europe at one time?

Do the words "World War II" ring any bells for you?

Are the Jews still living in ghettos and blaming the whites for their woes?

Are Jews not white? What are you talking about?

Didn't early American laws discriminate against the Chinese? And yet the Chinese aren't blaming the whites, are they?

Well, yes, they do blame "the whites" for that discrimination and ill treatment. And fair enough. But you think that once the issue of blame is settled in these circumstances, everything is hunky dory and everybody can just get on with their lives and pretend it never happened and it had no flow-on effects? How simplistic.

Are they living in ghettos and whining about conditions? No, they've adapted and are thriving, successful members of the American society.

Now go and do your homework and work out why. Also, consider whether or not any discrimination still exists.

Sounds quite similar to what happened to the Irish that immigrated to the USA in the early days of the nation. And the Chinese? Yet the Irish assimilated and became valued members of society. So, too, did the Chinese. And neither the Irish nor the Chinese have held onto some foolish
blame-game, constantly blaming the whites for their woes.

There's that blame thing again.

You need to get over this fear that you have that you might be blamed for your ancestors' wrongs, Baron. Start living in the present and thinking about current injustices and inequalities. You can do it!

I don't know, James, it seems to me that your posts DO claim that all white people are responsible.

No. But it isn't really important whether it is all or some. (Think: why might that be?)

And it's consistent with your ideal that whites make some kind of special effort for the blacks in attonment of those early wrongs ...otherwise, why even bring up those early wrongs?

Why indeed? Think. Hint: I've previously given you the answer.

In fact, for that matter, why are we even talking about "whites" and "blacks"? Why aren't we talking about SPECIFIC white individuals who have wronged SPECIFIC black individuals? We should be talking about taking Thomas Jefferson and Joe Plantation-owner to court for personal injury to individual blacks.

When you've done your thinking, re-evaluate this statement in light of what you've learned.

Good luck, Baron. Off to work you go!

 

[Baron Max]

Spin and bullshit, James, that's all you posted! You didn't answer even one of my questions or points ...other than with idiotic comments that have nothing to do with the questions. You've just twisted the comments so that fools who read them might think that you actually answered the points ....even though you didn't. Great side-stepping, James!!

But then again ...isn't that what blacks have been doing for millions of years? ...sidestepping while the whites and other "races" have worked to succeed and to build a better place to live for themselves and for their descendents.

Baron Max

 

[Oniw17]

Millions of years?

 

[James R]

Baron:

Spin and bullshit, James, that's all you posted! You didn't answer even one of my questions or points ...other than with idiotic comments that have nothing to do with the questions.

Right back at you, Baron.

But then again ...isn't that what blacks have been doing for millions of years? ...sidestepping while the whites and other "races" have worked to succeed and to build a better place to live for themselves and for their descendents.

I find your racism uninteresting. Come back when you have something intelligent to say.

 

[Baron Max]

Baron: I find your racism uninteresting. Come back when you have something intelligent to say.

Hmm? That's exactly what I've been trying to say about you, James. I bring up points, and you do nothing but make comments like the ones above.

As I see it, James, you do nothing but make excuses for the blacks' lack of advancement, not only in the USA, but most everywhere in the world. You consistently blame the whites for all of the woes in the world ...and if you find it a bit difficult, then you just go back another million years or so, and still blame the whites! ...LOL!

At some point, blacks are going to have to answer for their own problems in the world and take responsiblity for their own well-being. Until that time comes, making excuses is only delaying and prolonging that timeline.

You call it "racism", I call it personal responsiblity. Other races have accomplished that same goal in the USA and have become responsible members of society ...Chinese and Vietnamese to name two.

Baron Max

 

[J.B]

The best places in the world for "black people" to live, is amungst "white people". Black people abandon there own homelands, and constantly risk there lives just for a chance to live amungst white people.

 

[Baron Max]

The best places in the world for "black people" to live, is amungst "white people". Black people abandon there own homelands, and constantly risk there lives just for a chance to live amungst white people.

Perhaps. But it seems that once they get there, all they can do is complain that the whites aren't doing enough for them!

Baron Max

 

[J.B]

Baron Max:
Please give examples of white people colonising the lands of other white people, and subjugating or committing genocide against the previous white inhabitants. Choose examples where there were no flow-on effects of that, too.

Jews

 

[James R]

Baron Max:

As I see it, James, you do nothing but make excuses for the blacks' lack of advancement...

Your language once again gives you away. I have never claimed that blacks are not "advanced". What on earth do you mean by that?

...not only in the USA, but most everywhere in the world. You consistently blame the whites for all of the woes in the world ...

This is a straw man. There are many woes in the world. Most of them are not race specific.

...and if you find it a bit difficult, then you just go back another million years or so, and still blame the whites! ...LOL!

Yes, your characterisation of my position is laughable.

At some point, blacks are going to have to answer for their own problems in the world and take responsiblity for their own well-being.

You think they don't do that already. (Don't bother responding. This is a statement of fact, not a question.)

You call it "racism", I call it personal responsiblity.

Call it what you like. You assume you are "better" than black people, because you think they do nothing for themselves and yet have the same opportunities you do. You are wrong on all counts.

Other races have accomplished that same goal in the USA and have become responsible members of society ...Chinese and Vietnamese to name two.

The history of Chinese and Vietnamese immigrants to America is very different to that of African Americans, and their integration and treatment has also been historically different. Flow-on effects which you are unable to appreciate follow from those differences.

 

[James R]

J.B:

Are you anti-Semitic as well as racist? Well, the two often go together so it doesn't surprise me.