WHO warns "post-antibiotic era" soon

R

rodereve

Registered Member
Short article about antibiotic resistance

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21178718

"The rise in drug resistant infections is comparable to the threat of global warming" according to the chief medical officer for England

1) Do you think these claims are exaggerated?

2) Is there anything we can really do?
 
rodereve said:
1) Do you think these claims are exaggerated?
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It is a serious problem.

2) Is there anything we can really do?
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Stop prescribing antibiotics for everything. Stop asking your doctor for antibiotics every time you and your kid is sick. Take the full course of antibiotics if prescribed. Wash your hands to prevent infection, but do not use antibacterials.
 
billvon said:
Stop prescribing antibiotics for everything. Stop asking your doctor for antibiotics every time you and your kid is sick. Take the full course of antibiotics if prescribed. Wash your hands to prevent infection, but do not use antibacterials.
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Are hand sanitizers really a big issue, I've never thought of it that way actually. You see them everywhere now.

And the way I see it, we're in a losing battle. Bacteria and viruses have such a quick reproductive cycle, that resistant strains/mutations are inevitably going to beat our ability to produce effective drugs. Should we just all start wearing bubble suits? Should we start focusing on prevention rather than treatment, is that even possible. Is bigpharma even in the business of that, don't they make more money on shortterm regular treatments than stuff like vaccines.
 
rodereve said:
Are hand sanitizers really a big issue, I've never thought of it that way actually. You see them everywhere now.
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Sanitizers (alcohol based) - no. Antibacterials - yes.

And the way I see it, we're in a losing battle. Bacteria and viruses have such a quick reproductive cycle, that resistant strains/mutations are inevitably going to beat our ability to produce effective drugs. Should we just all start wearing bubble suits?
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No, just stop using antibiotics so often. We've been living with bacteria for hundreds of thousands of years. At worst we're back to our natural defenses, which are pretty formidable.

Should we start focusing on prevention rather than treatment, is that even possible. Is bigpharma even in the business of that, don't they make more money on shortterm regular treatments than stuff like vaccines.
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Absolutely! Basic prevention can do wonders. Better sanitation would have done far more to prevent the Black Death than having antibiotics available.
 
Have to disagree with you there but not for the reason you might think. Sure for the moment there is no alcohol resistance appearing but that isn't to say it couldn't happen. However the issue with over use of hand sanitisers and bleach is that we are sterilising the environment WAY to much and therefore potentially leaving our immune system vulnerable when we need it. Mild infections could become major because the immune system isn't used to coping with them any more in the same way we (in the first world) could never cope with the sort of diet that our ancestors ate because we haven't built up the immunity to the bacteria which came from the spoilt food from lack of preservatives and refrigeration.

Also there is good evidence that the rise in autoimmune disease like asthma and allergies and others are because the immune system is "bored" and so is attacking the body because it doesn't have the things it SHOULD be fighting

Edit to add: don't know that sanitation had anything to do with the plague which after all was spread by flees on rats. Think your thinking of cholera which was stopped in its tracks by taking the handle off one water pump in England
 
Asguard said:
Sure for the moment there is no alcohol resistance appearing but that isn't to say it couldn't happen.
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While I agree, yeast have had both thousands of years and the ultimate in selective pressures to evolve stronger resistance to alcohol - and it hasn't happened. (Indeed, microbiologists have tried their best to breed such bugs; no luck yet.) So the odds are low.

However the issue with over use of hand sanitisers and bleach is that we are sterilising the environment WAY to much and therefore potentially leaving our immune system vulnerable when we need it.
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Definitely agreed there. Kids especially are too "sanitized" nowadays.

Edit to add: don't know that sanitation had anything to do with the plague which after all was spread by flees on rats. Think your thinking of cholera which was stopped in its tracks by taking the handle off one water pump in England
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Public sewers and trash collection would have greatly reduced the incidence of rats.
 
billvon said:
At worst we're back to our natural defenses, which are pretty formidable.

Absolutely! Basic prevention can do wonders.
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In terms of preventation, I was just thinking off the top of my head, would we be able to manufacture bacterial-vaccines. I'm not sure if there are any popular ones, or if it would even be practical considering the vast amount of bacterial infections, but wouldn't attenuated bacterial vaccines increase our own natural defenses. So instead of taking antibiotics when we get sick, we take bacterial vaccines to avoid getting sick from popular bacteria in the first place. Don't think this is practical, but possibly could be cost-effective in the long run considering the downward spiral we're on now
 
rodereve said:
In terms of preventation, I was just thinking off the top of my head, would we be able to manufacture bacterial-vaccines. I'm not sure if there are any popular ones, or if it would even be practical considering the vast amount of bacterial infections, but wouldn't attenuated bacterial vaccines increase our own natural defenses.
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That's how vaccines work.

So instead of taking antibiotics when we get sick, we take bacterial vaccines to avoid getting sick from popular bacteria in the first place. Don't think this is practical, but possibly could be cost-effective in the long run considering the downward spiral we're on now
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?? That's how we eradicated smallpox, and nearly eradicated polio and measles. It works pretty well, but you need to be vaccinated against specific diseases.
 
billvon said:
That's how vaccines work.



?? That's how we eradicated smallpox, and nearly eradicated polio and measles. It works pretty well, but you need to be vaccinated against specific diseases.
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I think you misunderstood. Those vaccines, and the majority of current vaccines, are viral vaccines. I'm talking about bacterial vaccines, and whether it would be practical to start developing them.
 
rodereve said:
I think you misunderstood. Those vaccines, and the majority of current vaccines, are viral vaccines. I'm talking about bacterial vaccines, and whether it would be practical to start developing them.
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Tetanus, pertussis, diptheria, TB, typhoid and cholera are all bacterial infections that vaccines are available for.
 
billvon said:
rodereve said:
I think you misunderstood. Those vaccines, and the majority of current vaccines, are viral vaccines. I'm talking about bacterial vaccines, and whether it would be practical to start developing them.
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Tetanus, pertussis, diptheria, TB, typhoid and cholera are all bacterial infections that vaccines are available for.
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Well shows how much I know about vaccines :) But to my knowledge, most of those if not all are more of an occurrence in developing countries, whereas the resistant strains we should be worried about would only be building up where antibiotics are widely dispensed, ie the developed world. And I think my point still stands that the majority of vaccines are viral, with less emphasis and research dedicated to bacterial vaccines. Not sure if there's a market change towards developing more bacterial vaccines, as I think the most research is currently dedicated towards viral vaccines, namely HIV.
 
rodereve said:
Well shows how much I know about vaccines :) But to my knowledge, most of those if not all are more of an occurrence in developing countries, whereas the resistant strains we should be worried about would only be building up where antibiotics are widely dispensed, ie the developed world. And I think my point still stands that the majority of vaccines are viral, with less emphasis and research dedicated to bacterial vaccines. Not sure if there's a market change towards developing more bacterial vaccines, as I think the most research is currently dedicated towards viral vaccines, namely HIV.
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Add meningococcal to that list too (as far as I know mainly an issue in the first world, definitely Australia ) but as to your comment, drug resistant TB is coming out of Russia because people in prison in Russia are being treated for there TB while inside and then when are released are not taking the rest of the course and so its coming back.
 
Asguard said:
Add meningococcal to that list too (as far as I know mainly an issue in the first world, definitely Australia ) but as to your comment, drug resistant TB is coming out of Russia because people in prison in Russia are being treated for there TB while inside and then when are released are not taking the rest of the course and so its coming back.
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Interesting, see I heard about meningococcal diseases becoming more common, but I heard the vaccine wasn't effective for a long enough time to warrant mass vaccinations. Maybe it soon will be
 
Every school child in Australia gets the vaccination for Meningococcal. As for its long term efficacy of the vaccine, as far as I know the disease is only really an issue until mid 20s, so it can be worthwhile even if it doesn't give life long protection
 
The problem is economical: there is not enough intrest and money int new antibiotics, drug manufactures are more focused on designed drugs that "extend" or "enlarge", etc, etc, only when there is public demand (many people dying) will it be profitable to design new antibiotics.
 
ElectricFetus said:
The problem is economical: there is not enough intrest and money int new antibiotics
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There is a HUGE demand for them! Every hospital on the planet would buy antibiotics effective against MRSA and VRE. They are currently big problems. (Caused by overuse of those antibiotics, but that's another story.)
 
billvon said:
Yeah, that was my point. From the article: "Globally, the second leading cause of death is bacterial and parasitic disease. There's a real need for new and more effective antibiotics." As the article points out, the problem is that other drugs are more profitable - not that antibiotics aren't in high demand, or that hospitals won't buy them.
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Which was my point.
 
For decades epidemiologists have been warning of antibiotic overuse in general, and especially the routine lacing of animal feed with them. This practice is short sighted, completely irresponsible from a public health perspective, and has been very profitable. The money involved has made sure that no pesky legislation has ever had much of a chance of stopping it. It appears we are nearing the inevitable outcome of such massive overuse.
 
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