Who the hell advised Trum to bomb Syria?

Perhaps.
However the rebel held town of Khan Sheikhoun is not controlled by ISIL, so whether or not ISIL has serin is meaningless for this thread unless your goal was obfuscation.
the fact that ISIL has not used Sarin when it would definitely use it if it ( **) had it means that Sarin is not available for it to purchase or procure. It means that it is unlikely rebel groups have access to Sarin simply because if they did ISIL would also.

ISIL don't so neither do the Syrian rebels - sort of reasoning...

** ISIL Has already crossed the so called red line years ago so has nothing to loose by using it.
 
the fact that ISIL has not used Sarin when it would definitely use it if it ( **) had it means that Sarin is not available for it to purchase or procure. It means that it is unlikely rebel groups have access to Sarin simply because if they did ISIL would also.

ISIL don't so neither do the Syrian rebels - sort of reasoning...

** ISIL Has already crossed the so called red line years ago so has nothing to loose by using it.

So, by your reasoning, if the rebels did indeed attack Khan al-Assal(most likely) killing Syrian soldiers and civilians with sarin, then ISIL does indeed have access to those rebel stores of sarin.

Why would you think that all of the "rebel" factions would share any stores of sarin with ISIL?

Or do you think the Syrian soldiers at Khan al-Assal gassed themselves?
If so, then your reasoning would be..............................................(fill in the blank)....................................

...................................................................................
...................................................................................
On a more humorous note:
During the recent meeting with Tillerson:
Maybe Putin is too damned polite?
He could have said: "Иди нахуй сам" ("Idi nakhuy sam")
and the translator could have then translated that as:
"You don't need my help for this"
 
Either way.. war with Russia, seems more likely by the hour... and as the Russians would say:
В войне, неподписанные изменения
 
"Meanwhile back in the US, Russia again blocked a Western effort at the United Nations Security Council to condemn last week's deadly gas attack in Syria and pressure Mr Assad to cooperate with international inquiries into the incident.
It was the eighth time during Syria's six-year-old civil war Moscow has used its veto power on the Security Council to shield Mr Assad's Government.
US Ambassador to the United Nations, Nikki Haley, warned Moscow against protecting Mr Assad, who relies on support from Russia and Iran in his conflict with mostly Sunni Muslim rebels."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-13/tillerson-warns-us-russia-relations-at-low-point/8440646
 
Looks like the Obama admin knew Assad retained chemical weapons, and Trump being privy to that probably had something to do with the decision.
Whether it was good or bad will depend on how he follows up.
 
Looks like the Obama admin knew Assad retained chemical weapons, and Trump being privy to that probably had something to do with the decision.
Whether it was good or bad will depend on how he follows up.
And where is your evidence to support that notion?
 
Sorry, I have not known that the POTUS can start wars without asking the Congress or so. That all he has to do for this is to name this "not an extended campaign", as if he would be able to predict this.
It has to end within 60 days - at least, so reads the law.
No, given that the campaign rhetoric of Trump was, in comparison with Clinton, much more peaceful.
Nonsense. It was nothing of the kind - it was threatening and bullying to a remarkable degree.
Nobody claimed to take him seriously.
You have consistently referred to his rhetoric as supporting your opinion of his comparatively peaceful and isolationist tendencies, his reasonable nature as a businessman, etc.
All you can read in your history books is that the oil price went up - as it obviously would. You cannot read that the US government went to war with the goal of increasing the oil price, in spite of the damage to its own economy, which is what you allege.
I allege no such thing. Why are you repeatedly and consistently misrepresenting my posts?

Here's a part of the "oil argument", again:
1)The prospect of increasing their own profits, or at a minimum preventing Saddam from reducing them, was easily visible and and obvious available motive for Western oil interests, and those interests were very well represented among those directly responsible for deciding to launch that war. They stood to avoid a serious threat of loss, and instead make a ton of money, by invading Iraq. And they did.
2) Saddam's danger to the petrodollar was famous, prominent, and becoming urgent - the sanctions were dissolving, and he had made good on his threat to begin trading in other currencies. Iran, initially more prudent, was warming to the idea, as Saddam made big money by the move.

You said you found the "oil argument" inexplicable, was all. I helped you to understand it.
"The guy" I quote is actually an expert on the energy economy and business.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Yergin
You, however, do not offer any corroboration of your thesis, apart from ascribing base motives to the various officials involved.
I directly pointed to the very essay you linked, observing that its analysis omitted all mention of the currency and petrodollar issue, failed to consider the influence of sanctions or their impending demise, largely ignored the profit analysis and potential for Western vs other oil interests in the advent of that war, and so forth. In other words it omitted - failed to even consider, did not even dismiss - several major factors in play with regard to the "oil argument", including the most prominent accusations being made by those advancing the "oil argument", and specifically any of my posting here - which was supposedly why you linked it. What is your explanation for that? Do you think such a strawman from that source can possibly have been completely accidental?
Whether 3% of the world's supply is available or not, and if so whether it is sold in dollars or another currency, is not going to shake the dollar or the global oil trade, or make oil companies totter.
To repeat: all parties involved were of course looking at the future. Checking the threats posed by Saddam's initiatives, gaining the opportunities offered by military conquest of the Iraqi oil fields, were all future possibilities and payoffs. Saddam after sanctions, with Iran looking to follow his lead, was not only projected to control significantly more than 3% of the world's crude oil within a couple years, but the more than 3% cheapest and best.

These people are not children - oil company execs routinely deal in decades, long term gambles and payoffs. The longest horizon of Iraq's threats and payoffs was merely years away - the shorter ones were immediate, predicated on the war itself, and remarkably free of the "threat" aspect. The big oil companies that participated in and supported the launch of the Iraq War made many millions of dollars in no-risk extra profits just from that, and they knew they would going in - regardless of outcome. The bright future was bonus.
 
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So, by your reasoning, if the rebels did indeed attack Khan al-Assal(most likely) killing Syrian soldiers and civilians with sarin, then ISIL does indeed have access to those rebel stores of sarin.
Sarin doesn't keep without highly sophisticated manufacture and storage. They would need access to a fresh supply.

There's an obvious one handy.
 
Sarin doesn't keep without highly sophisticated manufacture and storage. They would need access to a fresh supply.

There's an obvious one handy.
Finally someone who knows a little about Sarin...
It is highly unlikely that the rebels have the technology to store active Sarin in a way that is safe, so it must be stored in a split and therefore relatively safe state to be combined for immediate use.

So the idea that Assad bombed rebel stockpiles OF COMBINED and ACTIVE Sarin is bordering on the absurd.
Also if it was actually Sarin (typical) the outcome would have been very different
 
Finally someone who knows a little about Sarin...
It is highly unlikely that the rebels have the technology to store active Sarin in a way that is safe, so it must be stored in a split and therefore relatively safe state to be combined for immediate use.

So the idea that Assad bombed rebel stockpiles OF COMBINED and ACTIVE Sarin is bordering on the absurd.
Also if it was actually Sarin (typical) the outcome would have been very different

That still leaves the false flag.
 
It has to end within 60 days - at least, so reads the law.

Nonsense. It was nothing of the kind - it was threatening and bullying to a remarkable degree.
You have consistently referred to his rhetoric as supporting your opinion of his comparatively peaceful and isolationist tendencies, his reasonable nature as a businessman, etc.

I allege no such thing. Why are you repeatedly and consistently misrepresenting my posts?

Here's a part of the "oil argument", again:
1)The prospect of increasing their own profits, or at a minimum preventing Saddam from reducing them, was easily visible and and obvious available motive for Western oil interests, and those interests were very well represented among those directly responsible for deciding to launch that war. They stood to avoid a serious threat of loss, and instead make a ton of money, by invading Iraq. And they did.
2) Saddam's danger to the petrodollar was famous, prominent, and becoming urgent - the sanctions were dissolving, and he had made good on his threat to begin trading in other currencies. Iran, initially more prudent, was warming to the idea, as Saddam made big money by the move.

You said you found the "oil argument" inexplicable, was all. I helped you to understand it.

I directly pointed to the very essay you linked, observing that its analysis omitted all mention of the currency and petrodollar issue, failed to consider the influence of sanctions or their impending demise, largely ignored the profit analysis and potential for Western vs other oil interests in the advent of that war, and so forth. In other words it omitted - failed to even consider, did not even dismiss - several major factors in play with regard to the "oil argument", including the most prominent accusations being made by those advancing the "oil argument", and specifically any of my posting here - which was supposedly why you linked it. What is your explanation for that? Do you think such a strawman from that source can possibly have been completely accidental?

To repeat: all parties involved were of course looking at the future. Checking the threats posed by Saddam's initiatives, gaining the opportunities offered by military conquest of the Iraqi oil fields, were all future possibilities and payoffs. Saddam after sanctions, with Iran looking to follow his lead, was not only projected to control significantly more than 3% of the world's crude oil within a couple years, but the more than 3% cheapest and best.

These people are not children - oil company execs routinely deal in decades, long term gambles and payoffs. The longest horizon of Iraq's threats and payoffs was merely years away - the shorter ones were immediate, predicated on the war itself, and remarkably free of the "threat" aspect. The big oil companies that participated in and supported the launch of the Iraq War made many millions of dollars in no-risk extra profits just from that, and they knew they would going in - regardless of outcome. The bright future was bonus.
What blows the shit out of such seemingly plausible reasoning is the fact that China (and secondarily a few others, one in particular not part of US/NATO/'coalition of the willing' axis) - avowed rival of US, got the lions share of oil supply contracts post 'liberation' of Iraq: http://inthesetimes.com/article/17626/what_the_Iraq_war_teaches_us
See under Oil subheading.
 
That still leaves the false flag.
it leaves the facts...
Sarin most likely wasn't stored in active form by rebels
Eye witness Video suggests that Chem weapons delivered by plane.
Rebels do not have air craft
Sarin is currently being suggested as the chem used. (urine samples - Turkey)

===

If it wasn't Assad and it wasn't the rebels then who could it have been? Russia perhaps?
If the stock pile theory is debunked as BS then what have we got left?
A gas attack on civilians delivered by air...
just a matter now of finding out whether Russian or Syrian
 
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"Where’s Trump’s written report to the House Speaker, Paul Ryan, as
required under USC 59 sec 2543? He had to submit it within 48 hours,
which has already passed. So let’s see it. There were no circumstances
“necessitating” the introduction of US armed forces. Trump didn’t even
ascertain whether or not the gas attack actually happened. It was like
the next fucking day that he blasted them. Clearly it was his own
personal whim. Oh look at the poor little gassed kids. I find that
disturbing, I’ll just order 59 cruise missiles lobbed at them, cuz I
fucking feel like it."
from your link...
Sort of sums up my own position...no fancy conspiracy, just impulsive emotional knee jerk reaction by Trump that happens to threaten WW3
 
What blows the shit out of such seemingly plausible reasoning is the fact that China (and secondarily a few others, one in particular not part of US/NATO/'coalition of the willing' axis) - avowed rival of US, got the lions share of oil supply contracts post 'liberation' of Iraq:
That's almost completely irrelevant.
Whatever was in the minds of those lying about WMDs to justify launching the Iraq War, the consequences of fucking it up this badly were not among them.

Aside from a few scurrilous lefty libertarians in the echo chamber of "evil doesn't work" and "this will end badly" and - remember when this was traitorous slander instead of conventional wisdom? - "no blood for oil", nobody in the US was taking seriously the prediction that this would be a thirteen year slog without victory or observable gain, another quagmire only higher risk.

Meanwhile, the petrodollar was kept in place for more than a decade past its incoming crisis (https://www.ft.com/content/dbd43e5c-78cc-11e6-a0c6-39e2633162d5 ), Exxon and the rest did make hundreds of millions of dollars on the whole thing and in addition get control of quite a bit of Iraqi oil (read about them dealing with the Chinese: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/03/w...-reaps-biggest-benefits-of-iraq-oil-boom.html ),
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-iraq-opec-oil-idUSKBN13D0MG
"[Iraq] is one of the countries in the region that doesn't have large foreign reserves, so will want to continue to maximize its revenue," said Jessica Brewer, Middle East upstream oil analyst at UK-based consultancy Wood Mackenzie.

She added that while most Middle Eastern OPEC members had all or most of their production operated by national oil companies, Iraq was one of the few that relied on international oil companies for the majority of its output.
and the biggest losers aside from the catastrophe-visited Iraqis themselves were the Americans who voted for it. Which is fair enough, as far as it goes.
 
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