Unfortunately it appears to be a part of the human condition....
Who the hell advised Trum to bomb Syria?
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Old hypothesis:
There is a very strong possibility that Assad does not have the control over his military that we grant him to have. In fact it appears to be that his brother ( Maher al-Assad), may be the main actor in the Assad regime holding his brother Bashar and his family virtually hostage to his ( Maher's) whim.
There is every possibility that Maher, due to significant narcotics and oil investments, may be deliberately sabotaging any chance of a cease fire in Syria to maintain his "empire". This sabotage could include the illegal use of chemical weapons knowing full well that the use would escalate tensions and sustain chronic instability in the region.
There is a very strong possibility that Assad does not have the control over his military that we grant him to have. In fact it appears to be that his brother ( Maher al-Assad), may be the main actor in the Assad regime holding his brother Bashar and his family virtually hostage to his ( Maher's) whim.
There is every possibility that Maher, due to significant narcotics and oil investments, may be deliberately sabotaging any chance of a cease fire in Syria to maintain his "empire". This sabotage could include the illegal use of chemical weapons knowing full well that the use would escalate tensions and sustain chronic instability in the region.
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Well, who then if not the rebels or Assad, the Russians? So you are saying the rebels dropped chemical weapons not on themselves but on their children and their wives? They people killed by Assad's chemical weapons were the children of rebels.
If you are to be believed the rebels have repeatedly gassed their children and their wives so they could blame Assad for it. How well has that worked out for them in the past?
It makes even less sense that the rebels would repeatedly kill their families, their wives and children with chemical weapons they don't have so they can blame Assad for it.
Indeed, you should heed your advice.
and that's a great point!
How do people decide which piece of propaganda they buy into?
Perhaps it is the propaganda that supports their cynical paranoia the best?
Trump was a well-known, transparent, completely and accurately and famously and publicly predicted President. Everybody who voted for him had all the information they needed laid out for them in advance, in public, in readily accessible easily understood formats. Exactly who Trump is, and exactly what is now happening in the Oval Office, is exactly what we all saw on the campaign. There have been no surprises.
There is no credible way for any American in good faith to claim Trump's Presidency so far is some kind of surprise, or that they didn't see this coming.
If Trump is who you voted for, you got what you voted for in his Presidency so far. He's been himself, completely consistent with his presentation of himself on the campaign and the entire story of his life so far.
The only question remaining - and it's for you to answer, ultimately - is why you voted for that guy. To be a functioning adult citizen of a democracy, you have to change that; to change it, you have to figure it out.
Call me naive but I'm still continuously surprised by the astonishment of Trump voters - he is doing exactly what he indicated he would do - and what the rest of us totally expected. Just amazing...
Schmelzer
Valued Senior Member
Not their own children. Their enemies children. https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/jihadist-rebels-kidnap-civilians-fleeing-village-northern-hama/ The victims of Ghouta have also been taken from some Alawite village.
And that they have chemical weapons is known. They have used it.
The Russians have known it since the US has bombed Belgrad. This is the moment they have started to prepare for it.
Iceaura writes the usual "you know nothing" nonsense, but among it the following:
As if it looked different under Obama or W or Billary. What was the last foreign policy action which was meaningful? Bush I stopping the first Iraq war but leaving Saddam at power?
And, BTW, you completely ignore in this discussion the simple fact that Clinton wants even more of this chaotic damn mess: http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/06/politics/hillary-clinton-syria-assad/
The "enemies" children? You do realize we are talking about the children of rebels? Are you finally admitting Assad gassed the children of rebels and anyone else who might be nearby?
What have Russian's known? That the US will intervene to prevent genocide and Nazi like concentration camps? NATO bombed Kosovo in order to stop the Serbian slaughter of Muslims. Why do you think that is a bad thing Comrade Schmeltzer?
Schmelzer
Valued Senior Member
Learn to read.
That the Cold War is not over, and that they will be the next. The Nazi like concentration camps are well-known as having been propaganda fakes. A reference to that concentration camp picture and the Hufeisen Plan plays in German infowar the same role as that picture this one used by Bolivia in UNSC plays in the US,
namely examples of established US propaganda lies.
So ...Uhm.. do you need to prepare for war like you clearly wrote or are you already prepared like you are writing now? Which is it?
Schmelzer
Valued Senior Member
Russia is prepared for a war. Syria was moderately prepared (else, all the 59 would have reached the airbase and it would be unusable for a long time), but obviously needs some more preparations yet. The people have to prepare themselves to war, especially the Western people, who are propaganda victims. The Russian people are prepared for it, the Syrian people too, they are already in war with the US.
It did. W's, in particular, was quite different from -
(and you soak up vocabulary along with everything else from these silliest of propaganda outlets you think you have outwitted, sources an intelligent American child can see through better than you) -
"Billary's", also Obama's. You might have noticed - he started two land wars in Asia.
btw: I first heard the term "Billary" sometime in I believe late 1992. It was in the context of a talk radio patsy like you, explaining to me that Hillary was the real power in the Clinton's, and that she was a psychotic murderer who had had several people killed to cover up a cocaine smuggling ring organized out of an Arkansas airport while Bill was Governor.
The TPP comes to mind - and its repudiation. There's the Cuba rapprochement. There was also a fairly significant revampment of the Law of the Sea, and considerable changes to international patent and copyright and product legal structure. And so forth. If the fallout of two land wars in Asia slipped your mind.
I don't. It's just that you're wrong. Clinton is nothing if not organized, to a fault, and does not get blown around by generals or the likes of Bannon. Trump's learning on the job, so to speak - like a zeppelin trying to park itself in a storm.
Do you seriously consider that the Syrian missile strike was anything more than the actions of an incompetent POTUS seeking to feed his intense narcissistic need to be seen as popular? (A need that could mean nuking North Korea and further action in Syria and elsewhere - the POTUS Putin voted for?)
Of course the missile strike was a complete failure... $100m of propaganda ...
I think you will find Trumps global approval rating would go through the roof if it wasn't for the fact that most people can see the craziness of his orders now...
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Schmelzer
Valued Senior Member
Whatever differences you can identify - wars in Asia vs North Africa vs. Europe, approved by Congress vs. completely illegal, fighting with US troops vs. European puppes vs. Ukrainian fascists vs. jihady terrorists - they all started completely stupid and illegitimate wars.
What really matters are wars. And in this connection they all have started extremely stupid wars. And, btw, the Kosovo war started by Billary (I don't care who invented this, once you like it so much) was the most stupid of all of them. Because it has turned Russia into an enemy.
Say, with a little bit more decency robbing Russian people and without the Kosovo war and NATO extension (started by Billary too) the globalist NWO would have had a chance. Today it is dead. But essentially it was dead already when the Russians had understood that the NWO is an anti-Russian project, and this became clear under Billary. Now the unipolar world is dead, obviously dead, we have the choice between a multipolar world and nuclear destruction, the choice will be made by the US elites.
Clinton wants a more serious war against Syria. With Trump, there is yet a chance that he tomorrow will turn again. With Clinton, war would be certain, better planned and executed. A serious war, against Russia.
I have never cared about your beloved Bannon, so have no idea what he really thinks, but here is what http://www.garynorth.com/public/16461.cfm thinks:
Seeing how you hate him, and how you praise Clinton's war plans, sounds not that implausible.
Of course. He may be stupid, but not that stupid to turn all those who have elected him for foreign policy reasons, as less evil than warmonger Clinton, into enemies. Once he does such a stupid thing, this is because the war party controls him now.
Ok, I give 5% to the theory that the aim of this action was to neutralize the "Putin puppet" nonsense, so that he is, after this, free to do in foreign policy what he likes. But not more. The fight Trump against deep state is over, Trump has lost and is not a war party zombie. Everything else would be wishful thinking.
The Anti-Trump Hate Campaign in the German NATO-media is, btw, over. Expect something similar in the US too. It will be reduced to the old low level of W times.
You seriously believe this propaganda nonsense?
Bells
Staff member
I think he's telling us that he has his 'duck and cover' routine down pat and he can eyeball which sturdy table he can duck under...
I think he is disappointed that the orange Jesus he kept defending prior to the election, did not live up to his personal expectations.
I would imagine the same applies to the likes of Sculptor and others, who touted Trump as the non-war monger, while demanding that Clinton would force the US into wars everywhere.
He never once hid the fact that he was a strongman, who no one would mess with and he would force respect of the US military and the US itself. What did you think that entailed, exactly?
He even prattled on about the sorry state of the US military and its hardware constantly before the election, and how nuclear weapons had to be built, questioned why they weren't being used and why they shouldn't be used.
I mean really, what did you possibly think would have happened when you voted him in?
You thought it was all bluff? That he wasn't going to do it?
He repeatedly asserted how voting for him would make the world see that you are the "baddest motherfuckers on the planet".
You think his bombing a Syrian airbase was bad?
Well, you better grab a hold of your panties, because he's not done.
THE diversion of an armada of American warships from port visits in Australia to the waters off North Korea gives US President Donald Trump a “full range of options” against dictator Kim Jong-un’s regime.
Mr Trump’s national security adviser, General HR McMaster, and US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, signalled on Sunday the US was preparing to respond to North Korea’s aggressive ramp up of its nuclear and ballistic missile programs.
The US Navy’s Third Fleet forward-deployed strike group, headed by the supercarrier USS Carl Vinson and supported by guided-missile destroyers and cruisers, was scheduled to visit Australia but it was announced on Saturday they had received orders to re-route toward the Korean Peninsula.
“The president has asked to be prepared to give him a full range of options to remove that threat to the American people and to our allies and partners in the region,” General McMaster, in an interview on FOX News Sunday, said.
The move will raise tensions in the region and comes hard on the heels of a US missile strike on Syria that was widely interpreted as putting Pyongyang on warning over its refusal to abandon its nuclear ambitions.
Mr Trump’s national security adviser, General HR McMaster, and US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, signalled on Sunday the US was preparing to respond to North Korea’s aggressive ramp up of its nuclear and ballistic missile programs.
The US Navy’s Third Fleet forward-deployed strike group, headed by the supercarrier USS Carl Vinson and supported by guided-missile destroyers and cruisers, was scheduled to visit Australia but it was announced on Saturday they had received orders to re-route toward the Korean Peninsula.
“The president has asked to be prepared to give him a full range of options to remove that threat to the American people and to our allies and partners in the region,” General McMaster, in an interview on FOX News Sunday, said.
The move will raise tensions in the region and comes hard on the heels of a US missile strike on Syria that was widely interpreted as putting Pyongyang on warning over its refusal to abandon its nuclear ambitions.
You voted for this. You went on and on about why you were voting for Trump and why he was the better option. You own this. This one is on you and others who voted for him. Reap what you sow.
You honestly have no reason or right to complain about what he is now doing, because he was clear from the outset that his intention was to build up the US military and to make said military feared around the world. This is literally what you voted for.
So, Russia and Syria were given a heads up, then Trump bypasses Congress, and bombs a nearly deserted airfield, with a 100 million dollar fireworks display, which for the most part missed the target. The trend is clear, when you live in a Progressive Socialist paradise, with a Progressive Central Bank and Progressive Income Tax, there's no need of Congress, but there is a need to consolidate power into the hands of a strongman.
Welcome to the United BanaRepublic of Amoorika where the Theater of War and Political Theater make a mockery of whatever is left of the ideals of the American Republic.
But, this is all baked in the Socialistic Cake - inevitable.
Welcome to the United BanaRepublic of Amoorika where the Theater of War and Political Theater make a mockery of whatever is left of the ideals of the American Republic.
But, this is all baked in the Socialistic Cake - inevitable.
You can't tell the foreign policy difference between invading and occupying Iraq with the US army and short term bombing a genocidal militia in Kosovo to make it stop, because they are both "wars"
for the same reason you can't tell apple juice from battery acid, because they are both acids.
Clinton did not start any wars. Putin turned Russia into an enemy of the US, for his own reasons - good ones, apparently, as things have worked out well for him.
You have Clinton the Psychopath on the brain. There is, in my long American experience, no cure.
I never praise Clinton's war plans. Or Clinton, actually. Quite the opposite. I've been trying to get the Clintons out of office and away from my government for most of my adult life. And now it's happened and I can't even celebrate.
Meanwhile, watching the Trump backers flail around trying to explain Trump's behavior in office by finding some cause, some nefarious influence - it's the generals!, must be the generals got to him! - is amusing but not serious analysis. Trump picked those generals - they're his chosen advisors, and he doesn't have to listen to a one of 'em. Bannon hasn't gone anywhere yet. Tillerson and Kushner are right at his elbow. And your intellectual Gary North is quoting Rush Limbaugh for insight (no joke - read for yourself) and discussing Trump as if there were some parallel with Woodrow Wilson. He's serious about that. Or solemn, anyway.
Trump's a loose cannon because that's what he has always been. The parallel you're looking for is with Larry or Curly - if they had a mean streak.
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Schmelzer
Valued Senior Member
I can tell alot of differences. But this does not change the fact that they all are:
1.) Wars, serious wars were a lot of people have been murdered
2.) Completely insane from a political point of view. What you named damn mess iirc. Or, as Talleyrand have said, "worse than a crime... It was a blunder".
ROTFLBTC, Libya and Syria are mainly her wars. No problem, W may have started something. but she could have stopped it if she liked. If you mean Billary, the bombing of Belgrad is his.
He has started with quite pro-Western positions, see his German Bundestag speech. He has seen, from the start, the danger for the Russian state itself, and acted to preserve it. And there was a lot to do to preserve it which was not obviously anti-American. But already his intention to preserve Russia as a state was a starting point, and that he has succeeded with preserving it was based on the anti-American turn. Before, it was quite common to think "so what if Russia also splits into parts". This was my own thought at that time, before Belgrad bombing, so I know what I'm talking about.
As usual, wrong. If Clinton is a psychopath or not is not essential at all. What matters is the American war party. They were behind Clinton during the election, and have started the anti-Trump hysteria after this, and now, once Trump switched to pro-war, they have no problem with Trump anymore. His reaction is understandable and so on. Everything is fine now. No more any difference between Clinton and Trump which matters for the deep state.
So, I repeat myself, the war faction has won, congratulation to you.
Feel free to continue low level anti-Trump, as you have been low-level anti-W. Trump will get not only 4 but 8 years, live with it, he is nice enough now to the war party, which is what matters. Your personal dislike for Trump is not a problem at all. As well as the feelings of those who have elected Trump because they did not want Cold War II as well as Hot War III. US elections are fake for sheeple, live with it.
Think about those questions you are allowed to decide about. Like which toilets have to be used by transsexuals. And stay away from serious politics, where you opinion counts nothing.
I would like to add an argument made by Jakow Kedmi - an Israeli specialist with secret service background quite popular in Russian TV (so, of course, an evil Kreml propagandist, so you don't have to care about his arguments). I present it in my own way, quite different, for the original (in Russian) see
His point was that the US has bombed the airbase which was, as is claimed, the base where the plane has started with the chemical weapons. But in all this there was no information where on this base there have been the chemical weapons.
Take the difference: According to the Russian (pro-insurgent) version, there was a weapon and ammunition depot, the Syrians have bombed it, there have been, stored or even produced, chemical weapons inside, and as a result of the attack, they came out and killed some people. But in this version, there is no reason to assume that the Syrians have known that there are chemical weapons there.
Trump attacks, instead, an airbase where he thinks (or at least claims to think) that there are chemical weapons. And does not care at all about his rockets hitting them and killing civilians in nearby villages. Of course, the Syrian fire fighters also did care about chemical weapons. But this is compatible with the Syrian version that they have no chemical weapons at all. But what about the American version? Hitting an airbase full of chemical weapons?
Libya and Syria.
Above wars illegal wars, by supporting terrorists fighting against the legal government. So, I can understand your position that formally she did not start wars - there was no official declaration of war neither against Libya nor against Syria.
But in reality, there are wars against Libya and Syria, and without US support for the ... ups, sorry, joepistole's beloved rebels, there would have been no wars in these countries.
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
No I think that is just a conspiracy theory. Saddam was in no position to "cut the entire Western oil corporation hegemony out of the picture". A huge amount of crude is owned by national governments in any case and whether Iraq sold to oil majors or not made little difference to the global oil trade, given the multiplicity of other sources and the vast and flexible availability from KSA. In fact, the world did perfectly fine with almost no Iraqi oil on the market, for years, after the invasion wrecked the supply system.