Who Is The Mother?

charles brough

Registered Senior Member
Jane's female fetus has aborted and it is decided she can never become pregnant again. She and her husband want their child anyway and have the money to do it. Specialists remove egg cells from the fetus, fertilize them by the husband and impregnate a surrogate mother with the fertilized eggs. It grows full term and a healthy baby is born.

Who is the mother?


charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com
 
the aborted fetus is the Mom. Jane is the Grandma. And they used Dad to impregnate the daughters egg? Wouldn't that be hugely unethical?
 
I will have to agree with Orleander. In fact, i would be amazed if any specialist would ever do such a thing. The chance of genetic defects would be very real.. not to mention the ethics..
 
I will have to agree with Orleander. In fact, i would be amazed if any specialist would ever do such a thing. The chance of genetic defects would be very real.. not to mention the ethics..

So genetic defects are more likely if sex and creating life is kept "within the family"?

But aren't we all related as cousins? We all are family right? Therefore, we are all involved in incest if we choose to have sex or if we are forced to.

At the beginning human beings people must have been "down with incest" in order for the human race to survive.
 
Jane's female fetus has aborted
I assume you mean "miscarried" and you're not trying to muddle this discussion by bringing in the issue of abortion.
and it is decided she can never become pregnant again. She and her husband want their child anyway and have the money to do it. Specialists remove egg cells from the fetus
The devil is in the details and the details of this scenario are unfortunately not very well crafted. Why is it that Jane shouldn't become pregnant again? Obviously some dreadful information was learned from the circumstances of the miscarriage. Whatever is wrong with her, isn't there a good chance that it's genetic and was passed on to her unborn daughter? Otherwise they could just take one of Jane's ova. I don't know about everybody else here, but I'm sitting on the edge of my chair waiting to find out why the fetus's eggs are even under consideration, and it keeps me from concentrating on the puzzle. :)
, fertilize them by the husband and impregnate a surrogate mother with the fertilized eggs. It grows full term and a healthy baby is born. Who is the mother?
A more sordid question is: Who is the father? It turns out that Mister Jane is both the baby's father and the baby's grandfather. Incest is strongly discouraged in the U.S., even in Alabama. :) This is probably not illegal since no intercourse took place, but I doubt that any reputable doctor would participate.
So genetic defects are more likely if sex and creating life is kept "within the family"?
There's some controversy over the consequence of a single iteration of incest. Someone posted the genetic math on SciForums and the risk from first cousins marrying is remarkably small. The problems come in when it becomes common practice within a family
But aren't we all related as cousins? We all are family right? Therefore, we are all involved in incest if we choose to have sex or if we are forced to.
Yes, we are all descendants of "Lucy," whom I'm sure you've heard of. Nonetheless, the risk dissipates quickly as you expand the number of individuals involved. This comes up in speculation about generation starships. I read an unsubstantiated assertion that if you have a community of at least 600 people who are not knowingly related, you have adequate genetic diversity to prevent the problems of inbreeding, even though obviously by the third or fourth generation everybody will be knowingly related. Royal families developed genetic problems by inbreeding because they were not observing the 600-person rule. Little communities in Appalachia that have been inbreeding for ten generations have been studied and found to be healthy because they have a large enough population.
At the beginning human beings people must have been "down with incest" in order for the human race to survive.
That's a reasonable assumption. Our closest relatives, the chimpanzees and gorillas, have no hangups about incest. I don't know much about chimpanzee life, but in one species of gorilla the pack consists of a patriarch and a group of adult females. All of their male offspring and some of their females leave when they reach puberty, finding other loners in the forest and forming new packs. But the patriarch continues to breed with his own daughters. (And perhaps granddaughters, I don't know how long gorillas live nor at what age they reach sexual maturity.) So incest is quite common and primatologists say the effects of the inbreeding are striking. If you look at the skulls of the gorillas of one tribe and those from a more distant tribe, they are so different you'd swear they were a different species. Nonetheless there is enough cross-breeding that it hasn't caused them any serious trouble.
If a fetus isn't a person, how can the fetus be a mother?
I think Charles was talking about biology, not ethics. It comes down to DNA and there's no question that the miscarried fetus is the mother of the live-born baby. Some hapless bureaucrat who is not at all prepared for this will have to figure out what name to list on the birth certificate. :)
 
Fraggle Rocker wrote:
"There's some controversy over the consequence of a single iteration of incest. Someone posted the genetic math on SciForums and the risk from first cousins marrying is remarkably small. The problems come in when it becomes common practice within a family."

This, however, concerns a father and his daughter... the daughter already has 50% of the fathers DNA...
Isnt it obvious youre asking for trouble..?
 
Jane is the mother because it's her bloody gene. The other chick is just a human incubator that was probably paid well for her work. Teh logic!?...
 
This, however, concerns a father and his daughter... the daughter already has 50% of the fathers DNA...
Isnt it obvious youre asking for trouble..
No. If the father's genes don't have any genetics disorders or badly mutated alleles, then there will no issue. The main reason incest is considered bad, as Fraggle pointed out, is that continued incest (ie. generation after generation) will allow mutations and recessive alleles to propagate and become more common. But they have to be there in the first place.

Fugu, the ovum was taken from the miscarried fetus. So technically its genes are the ones that are passed on. But, let's not forget the importance of environment as the fetus develops. I would say the surrogate mother has a lot more to do with how the baby will turn out than you are giving her credit for.
 
Incest increases the probability of recessive genes becoming paired, allowing the recessive trait to express itself.

Dominant genes for anti-survival traits tend to get weeded out of the gene pool, while recessive genes for such traits can survive for many generations.

The above results in recessive genes being more likely to code for some detrimental trait.

Aside from the above, there is nothing inherently unhealthy about incest. Cleopatra was the result of xeveral generations of brother/sister marriages. This suggests that few (if any) detrimental genes were in the gene pool of that family. It also suggests that incest is not inherently detrimental.
 
Hrm.. most everyone has faulty genes. Althought in most individuals they are not expressed due to dominant healty alleles being present.
Im not saying the offspring WILL have a genetic disorder, im just saying the risk is significantly higher.
 
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