who is god?

[mack1234]

asking that question is like asking: which came first the chicken or the egg? There is no answer. if you answered (chicken) then the statement appears: how can you have a chicken without an egg. or if you answer was (the egg) then the statement: how can you have an egg without a chicken. so the question is recursive and is never ending

in the case of god. the question who is god is never ending too. think about it this way:

humanity is created by god
god is created by god's god
god's god is created by god's god's god
god's god's god is created by god's god's god.

so this question is also recursive and can never be answered. if god created humanity then who created god. Then when you get that answer then another question is who created god's god? this goes on and on just like the chicken or the egg question.

 

[Godless]

asking that question is like asking: which came first the chicken or the egg? There is no answer.

Actually there is the riddle has been solved. Chicken and egg debate unscrambled

As for god, well theist around here will tell ya, that "IT" is eternal. Non created, the alpha,alpha, & omega.

Godless

 

[KennyJC]

This is one of those questions that semi-religious spiritual nuts like c7ity love to answer. I just think it's irrelevant and boring... "God is anything you want it to be", etc...

 

[scorpius]

asking that question is like asking: which came first the chicken or the egg? There is no answer. if you answered (chicken) then the statement appears: how can you have a chicken without an egg. or if you answer was (the egg) then the statement: how can you have an egg without a chicken. so the question is recursive and is never ending

egg came first,obviously but not from chicken but some other creature?
its called evolution.

in the case of god. the question who is god is never ending too. think about it this way:

humanity is created by god
god is created by god's god
god's god is created by god's god's god
god's god's god is created by god's god's god.

so this question is also recursive and can never be answered. if god created humanity then who created god. Then when you get that answer then another question is who created god's god?

theres no need for god if the universe is eternal,(always existed) and is uncaused,wouldnt you say?
whoops...no gods needed,imagine that!

 

[c7ityi_]

humanity is created by god
god is created by god's god

God can't be created because he's the creator, the cause. God is nothing where everything comes from, and nothingness doesn't need a creator.

Actually there is the riddle has been solved. Chicken and egg debate unscrambled

You can't really know that unless you were there to witness it. The theory of evolution doesn't have to be right.

theres no need for god if the universe is eternal,(always existed) and is uncaused,wouldnt you say?

A universe without a beginning is a universe without an explanation, which is pretty illogical.

 

[superluminal]

A universe without a beginning is a universe without an explanation, which is pretty illogical.

Ha! A god without a beginning is a god without an explanation, which is pretty illogical.

 

[c7ityi_]

Ha! A god without a beginning is a god without an explanation, which is pretty illogical.

Not if God is nothingness which I said he is. Everything needs a beginning, a cause, an explanation, but nothing doesn't, that's why it's the only thing that can cause anything. It's the only logical reality, it's the only thing that has reason to "exist", it's the only thing that can exist.

 

[superluminal]

Not if God is nothingness which I said he is.

That's even a bit more illogical that the other statement, isn't it? Nothingness pretty much covers everything that dosen't exist, right? So saying a particular X = nothingness, is, well, pointless.

 

[Cris]

C7

God can't be created because he's the creator, the cause. God is nothing where everything comes from, and nothingness doesn't need a creator.

If a god is nothing then it can’t exist because nothing can’t be something.

Everything needs a beginning, a cause, an explanation,

Why?

but nothing doesn't, that's why it is the only thing that can cause anything.

No, nothing has no properties other than nothing and is hence incapable of doing anything, least of all creating anything.

You can't really know that unless you were there to witness it. The theory of evolution doesn't have to be right.

Nonsense, deductive logic is fully capable of showing an event without a direct witness. And evolution is fact; it has occurred and is occurring. Evolution theories are attempts to explain how evolution occurs. Please don’t confuse these concepts, this is a common mistake.

A universe without a beginning is a universe without an explanation, which is pretty illogical.

Why must there be an explanation?

Everything needs a beginning, a cause, an explanation,

Why? I see no rule that says anything must have an explanation or a purpose.

 

[lightgigantic]

You end up with the same stalemate if you say "humanity created god" because you are left with the question who created humanity?
Well it was the monkeys
and the monkeys were created by primitive organisms
and the primitive organisms were created by water
and the water was created by isolated chunks of matter
Where did the isolated chunks of matter come from?

If you say that the universe is eternal (which ironically scripture declares as well) you are still left with the question of how it got activated - In other words it gets back to the point of how is it possible for a machine to work without an operator.

You are making the error of assuming that god is like a human being or perhaps a little more powerful. One of the things attributed to the creation of god is time itself - what to speak of creation, god created the very medium of creation.

As for god being nothingness that is ridiculous - you could say he is nothing like a mundane creature though - because the next question is how did variety emanate from nothing?

God is actually the reservoir of variety.

 

[superluminal]

If you say that the universe is eternal (which ironically scripture declares as well)...

Where, please?

...you are still left with the question of how it got activated - In other words it gets back to the point of how is it possible for a machine to work without an operator.

No. This demonstrates a distinct lack of imagination on the part of theists. I can easily imagine a universe with static existence in the absence of time. Picture the familiar integer number line from elementary school. Where does it begin?

... -3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3...

Does it not exist all at once, statically, infinitely, without regard to time?

You are making the error of assuming that god is like a human being or perhaps a little more powerful. One of the things attributed to the creation of god is time itself - what to speak of creation, god created the very medium of creation.

You are fond of pointing out our errors. And the rest of this statement appears to be jibberish.

As for god being nothingness that is ridiculous - you could say he is nothing like a mundane creature though - because the next question is how did variety emanate from nothing?

Who ever said it did?

God is actually the reservoir of variety.

Quite the statement of confidence for a concept with no verifiable effect on the cosmos.

 

[Cris]

Light,

If you say that the universe is eternal (which ironically scripture declares as well) you are still left with the question of how it got activated

That doesn’t follow at all. If by eternal we mean no boundaries then no beginning is implied, i.e. no point of activation.

what to speak of creation, god created the very medium of creation.

Well no that would be impossible, since any event requires a finite duration. Time must have always existed otherwise nothing could have ever occurred, even gods.

God is actually the reservoir of variety.

Ahh the very basis of evolution – and we know that exists which pretty much leaves the god concept as entirely redundant.

 

[c7ityi_]

Where did the isolated chunks of matter come from?

From space. Space is also a kind of "matter", but it's invisible to our senses.

because the next question is how did variety emanate from nothing?

In a similar way as colors "emanate" from light.

God is actually the reservoir of variety.

But God can't exist without a creator if he is something (created).

If a god is nothing then it can’t exist because nothing can’t be something.

I think I've said this before, but unless you know what something is you can't say it's not nothing. But there is something in nothingness: infinity.

No, nothing has no properties other than nothing and is hence incapable of doing anything, least of all creating anything.

Anything couldn't create anything at least, since it IS anything. There are infinite possibilities in nothingness. Nothing is impossible.

And evolution is fact; it has occurred and is occurring.

Yes, we constantly evolve, but I don't think the theory of evolution is correct.

Why? I see no rule that says anything must have an explanation or a purpose.

There can't be effects without causes. I just think it's illogical. It's not a rule, but only my personal thought.

But have you ever seen something happen without a reason? Did these words appear here without reason, without a creator?

I can't imagine something without a beginning, I can only imagine nothingness without a beginning.

 

[lightgigantic]

Where, please?.

Kala (time), Isvara (god), Jiva(living entity), Prakrti (the conglomerate of material nature) are all eternal in nature - Karma, however, is not

No. This demonstrates a distinct lack of imagination on the part of theists. I can easily imagine a universe with static existence in the absence of time. Picture the familiar integer number line from elementary school. Where does it begin?

... -3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3...



Does it not exist all at once, statically, infinitely, without regard to time?.

Yes it is easy to conceive of eternal time but it is more difficult to conceive of how eternal time activates lifeless matter.

Who ever said it did?.

c7ityi_ did

.[/QUOTE]

 

[lightgigantic]

Light,

That doesn’t follow at all. If by eternal we mean no boundaries then no beginning is implied, i.e. no point of activation. .

No, eternal means that there wasn't a time when it didn't exist - like if you purchased a car you might have had it in for your possession for 24 hours but only driven it for 2 hours - just because it was active for 2 hours doesn't mean it wasn't yours for the other 22

Well no that would be impossible, since any event requires a finite duration. Time must have always existed otherwise nothing could have ever occurred, even gods. .

-Unless they were eternal by nature to begin with

Ahh the very basis of evolution – and we know that exists which pretty much leaves the god concept as entirely redundant.

Well I guess the only thing absent from the theory of evolution that prevents it from sitting on the shelf of scientific phenomena is the ability to be observed in nature or recreated in a labroratory

 

[Oniw17]

asking that question is like asking: which came first the chicken or the egg? There is no answer. if you answered (chicken) then the statement appears: how can you have a chicken without an egg. or if you answer was (the egg) then the statement: how can you have an egg without a chicken. so the question is recursive and is never ending

in the case of god. the question who is god is never ending too. think about it this way:

humanity is created by god
god is created by god's god
god's god is created by god's god's god
god's god's god is created by god's god's god.

so this question is also recursive and can never be answered. if god created humanity then who created god. Then when you get that answer then another question is who created god's god? this goes on and on just like the chicken or the egg question.

No. God is self. Humanity created god(s) to philosophically describe our ignorance. The inertia of god is equivelant to the inertia of self. Faith that
god(s) will help you is faith in self. Therefore, your paradox is irrelevent sir.

 

[lightgigantic]

From space. Space is also a kind of "matter", but it's invisible to our senses..

Well okay we can beg the question a bit further and ask how did variety emanate from space ....

In a similar way as colors "emanate" from light..

To say that variety can emanate from nothing like colours can emanate from light means that light is nothing - light however is something

I think I've said this before, but unless you know what something is you can't say it's not nothing. But there is something in nothingness: infinity..

Therefore god is something - infinite

Anything couldn't create anything at least, since it IS anything. There are infinite possibilities in nothingness. Nothing is impossible..

There are no possibilities in nothing - the evidence is that something has never come from nothing - or at least in those incidents where it appeared that something came from nothing, it was later revealed that the nothing was actually something we couldn't see. Nothing is impossible as long as there is something to make it possible

Yes, we constantly evolve, but I don't think the theory of evolution is correct..

Well, I agree with you on this one

There can't be effects without causes. I just think it's illogical. It's not a rule, but only my personal thought.

But have you ever seen something happen without a reason? Did these words appear here without reason, without a creator?

I can't imagine something without a beginning, I can only imagine nothingness without a beginning.

Well I can imagine something without a beginning and also an end- Suppose you woke up one morning and were some how under the impression that you were having cornflakes for breakfast - when you go to the breakfast table you find that you are in fact having pancakes and maple syrup for breakfast - the cornflakes that you thought you were having for breakfast had no actual beginning but they had an end when you encountered the reality of this morning's breakfast

 

[lightgigantic]

No. God is self. Humanity created god(s) to philosophically describe our ignorance. The inertia of god is equivelant to the inertia of self. Faith that
god(s) will help you is faith in self. Therefore, your paradox is irrelevent sir.

If the self is god how is it that inerta can overcome the self? That would make inertia more powerful than god and thus inertia would be god.

 

[Oniw17]

What constitutes the inertia to be god? Self is god because God comes from our awareness of self. That is why we are the only animal that has god.

 

[Oniw17]

Jesus of Nazareth, IF he existed is no different than Budha, or Gandhi, or MLKJr., just a wise man, NOT god.