Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Is there some way their bodies (cows, horses, rabbits, sheep, deer, elephants, etc.) can synthesize proteins from mere grass and weeds?
Is there some way their bodies (cows, horses, rabbits, sheep, deer, elephants, etc.) can synthesize proteins from mere grass and weeds?
Well, many vegetables (say, nuts and seeds) do have protein in them. And keep in mind that grass has a lot of seed in it.
Some grazing animals have enough bacteria in their guts to both break down cellulose AND generate all the vitamins they need, which is pretty impressive. We can't do that.
Sure. Rice and beans, in the proper ratio, will take care of the protein without meat, but if you want to stick to grasses I'm pretty sure you can find something to replace the beans.I wonder if grass and its seeds would provide enough protein for humans
That makes sense. I wonder if grass and its seeds would provide enough protein for humans.
I don't think most herbivores eat just one kind of vegetation. A few, like koalas and pandas are narrowly specialized, but most eat roots, fruit, seed and nuts, as well as different kinds of leaf; in winter, even bark and lichens. Seeds are the richest source of nutrients.
I wonder whether, if we pursue a healthy vegetarian diet, our intestinal flora also change. They must - microorganisms are the most adaptable thing on the planet.
Sure. Rice and beans, in the proper ratio, will take care of the protein without meat, but if you want to stick to grasses I'm pretty sure you can find something to replace the beans.
What you need is not "protein" in general, but a proper balance of the amino acids your body can't synthesize.
Maize, rice, wheat, barley, oats, sugar cane, sorghum, millet, rye, teff - - most human food is grass and its seeds.Our intestinal flora is not anywhere near as good as a cow's, so we wouldn't get enough nutrition from grass.
Well, outside of sugar cane, what you just listed are all seeds - and generally we can't eat any of them directly. Fortunately we have technology (grinding, baking, malting, cooking, soaking) that can "predigest" such foods for us, to let our less-complex digestive systems use them. Although we still can't digest grass (primarily cellulose) directly, outside of pretty complex industrial cellulosic ethanol processes.Maize, rice, wheat, barley, oats, sugar cane, sorghum, millet, rye, teff - - most human food is grass and its seeds.
Is there some way their bodies (cows, horses, rabbits, sheep, deer, elephants, etc.) can synthesize proteins from mere grass and weeds?
The CP of Napier grass and many other forage crops is normally less than 14 percent, which is insufficient for efficient dairy production, hence the need for supplementation to increase dairy productivity. The in vivo digestibility of Napier grass, Guatemala, and giant setaria range between 47 and 56 percent, but can be as high as 71.1 percent when cut young. Smallholder dairy farmers can increase the quality of forages by using the recommended forage management practices. Smallholder farmers can also improve the quality of their forage crops by growing grass and legumes mixtures. Some farmers grow and harvest the grasses and legume separately, but mix them when stall feeding their dairy cattle. In some cases, growing and managing grasses and legume separately, increases yield. The CP of most legumes ranges between 14 and 18 percent and CF ranges between 27 and 35 percent. Leucaena leucocephala has CP of 21.6 and CF 18.3 (Skerman et al., 1988). Although legumes have higher CP than grasses, some tropical legumes have lower digestibility and palatability because they have higher tannin contents.
As others have pointed out, the artiodactyls (even-toed ungulates or "hooved mammals": camels, pigs, cattle, sheep, goats, deer, giraffes, antelope, hippopotamus, chevrotains), the perissodactyls (odd-toed ungulates: horses, zebras, asses, tapirs, rhinoceros), and several animals outside of these large taxonomic groups (such as elephants), all have large, complicated digestive systems that maintain a bacterial culture. Many of them have multiple stomachs that send the food back and forth for processing.Is there some way their bodies (cows, horses, rabbits, sheep, deer, elephants, etc.) can synthesize proteins from mere grass and weeds?
Is there some way their bodies (cows, horses, rabbits, sheep, deer, elephants, etc.) can synthesize proteins from mere grass and weeds?
Domestication has affected the evolution of animals because we practice unnatural selection. Just look at dogs: they have evolved into a separate subspecies, Canis lupus familiaris. They have smaller brains to survive on the lower-protein diet of a scavenger, their teeth have changed shape since they don't have to rip apart their prey anymore, and their instincts have evolved enormously.I do not agree with all of the information at this link for the simple reason that horses survived without supplementation prior to domestication.
You didn't read my post. I explained that. Cattle are ruminants, with a very long digestive tract full of bacteria. The bacteria turn the starch into protein.Cattle during winter is fed with corn , so corn must be a provider of proteins or an other way the organism must produce amino acids from starch .
According to http://www.raising-rabbits.com/carnivore-digestive-system.html, my account is basically correct. The bacteria have the necessary enzymes to digest cellulose, which they convert into protein: their own bodies. These growing bodies divide and reproduce into more bodies, and the herbivores digest the excess population in order to satisfy their own protein requirements.I think there is confusion about where and what protein comes from and is. Protein is composed of amines and requires nitrogen, cellulose can't be made into protein (although hemicellulose has some amines) organism must 'fix' nitrogen from air to make protein, only a few types of bacteria are capable of this energy intensive process and I have never heard of them operating in the guts of ungulates. My understanding was that herbivores eat ALOT of plant matter and extract all their fixed nitrogen from that plant matter.
Raising-Rabbits.com said:Herbivores cannot by themselves digest cellulose any more than dogs (or other carnivore digestive systems) or humans can. But, they utilize a huge army of bacteria and other life forms to break down the cellulose before digestion. Once the bacteria have broken down the cellulose, the herbivore eats the bacteria for dinner, thereby obtaining animal protein (and vitamin B12, BTW) despite eating only plants. - See more at: http://www.raising-rabbits.com/carnivore-digestive-system.html#sthash.JH7eiprm.dpuf
According to http://www.raising-rabbits.com/carnivore-digestive-system.html, my account is basically correct. The bacteria have the necessary enzymes to digest cellulose, which they convert into protein: their own bodies. These growing bodies divide and reproduce into more bodies, and the herbivores digest the excess population in order to satisfy their own protein requirements.
Presumably, you are right about the huge ruminant digestive tract being full of nitrogen. Since ruminants don't have large brains their protein requirements are small compared to ours, so the balance of nitrogen, cellulose and bacteria is apparently adequate.
The only significant quantity of amino acids in plant tissue are in the seeds, which comprise a tiny portion of the plant, as well as being (usually) seasonal. Herbivores are not getting a useful amount of nitrogen directly from the plants.Now the question is is all this nitrogen coming from plant protein and hemicellulose and other nitrogen containing compounds or are the gut bacteria in ruminants actually fixing nitrogen straight from N2 gas dissolved in the cows digestive track?
That's not what I've read. It's the maintenance and operation of the brain that accounts for a large portion of our protein intake. Ancestral hominid species became obligate carnivores when their brains grew too large for the typical primate's herbivorous diet augmented by occasional arthropods and other tiny animals. Fortunately the larger brain gave them the ability to invent the hunting tools needed by an obligate carnivore with no fangs or claws.First off I don't think that is what I said, second a several hundred pound cow has far more protein in it then you or I do by sheer mass, regardless if its smooth little brain. All the leather and meat and hair of a cow is chalk full of protein or is even pure protein. Brains don't consume much more protein then muscle or skin or bone.