I think you will find this kind of stuff everywhere but particularily in repressive backward societies where secrets thrive. When you see and hear crap like this it adds real meaning to the description, human animal.
When somebody in Pakistan asks you to marry them
- Thread starter Varda
- Start date
I hear pederasty is a common thing in Islamic countries since the 800 century. Thoughts?
That's pretty hilarious coming from you, since every single aspect of your hypocritical modern life is possible due to the work of white people. Yet all you can talk about is how every bit of evil in the world was caused by them.
First remove the log in your eye... etc.
BTW, I'm never going to merit your posts with a serious reply again, after typing all that and not getting a reply. I'm going to troll the troll now. YOU'RE ON BIATCH.
From http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2749006&postcount=9 (and part of 8 inside)wow, Varda's story but in reverse
I did not know “Varda’s story” so read part of this thread about marriage she started to learn it (but still don’t know it.) and found S.A.M. quoting in post 46: the following which no one has corrected, so I must:
“…Paula Oliveira, 26, was slashed more than 100 times during the 10-minute-long attack in Switzerland, according to reports.
Photographs of the woman’s stomach and legs with the letters SVP - Swiss People’s Party - have appeared in Brazilian newspapers.
Police were alerted to the attack by a man at Zurich train station who discovered the blood-soaked victim.
She told officers she had been pregnant with twins and was due to get married but had miscarried the babies after the attack.
It is reported that three skinheads, one with a Nazi symbol tattooed on his forehead, attacked Miss Oliveira as she made her way home.
She had been speaking in Portuguese to her mother on a cell phone when she was accosted, the Brazilian Foreign Ministry confirmed. …”
But the superficial wounds were self inflicted. At first the government of Brazil offered her financial and legal support, and much of the world was outraged – very bad global PR for the Swiss. But then pieces of her story started to fall apart.
There are many video cameras in the Zurich train station, but none showed the three skin-heads she said attacked her.* Then by means I think relate to the hormonal changes in a pregnant woman, it was definitely established that she was never pregnant – did not miss carry twins as result of the attack. (They had blood samples from the hospital she was taken to.) Then first her boy friend confessed and she soon afterwards, that it was all scheme to try to collect funds from the Swiss government for not having adequate protection in public places. Brazil, I think, did help get her some psychological help as she had little money.
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* Initially everyone believed her story - the police included, so they reviewed all the video tapes hoping to ID the three skinheads and arrest them.
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Where and when did these highly unusual events occur SAM?
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
As a Euro-American who was raised to believe that skin color doesn't matter, and who has spent much of my life promoting that philosophy, I most strongly resent your insulting generalization. Racism is a problem that goes back to the Stone Age, when there was no food surplus so anyone who was not a member of your tribe was a hated competitor for scarce resources. We are still struggling to civilize the caveman who lives inside each of us so of course we have not succeeded in eradicating the instinct of racism. But we've made considerable progress from our low point in the 19th century, and in case you haven't noticed, a majority of us elected a President who, regardless of his complex ancestry and upbringing, is universally regarded as "black."
Where did you go to college in America, Mississippi? Or some depressed Northeastern city with a shrinking population where everybody blames everybody else for their problems? If those things happened within 100 miles of Washington DC, Los Angeles, or most of the civilized parts of the country with which I'm familiar, the bus driver would have been fired and the shopkeeper would have been prosecuted for violating several laws. Tolerance, integration and multiculturalism are now the norm here, even if there are still pockets of resistance. When I was a child the ratio was exactly the opposite.
I'm genuinely sorry if the United States hasn't managed to overcome all of its social problems during my lifetime and you had the misfortune to be the center of one. But I'm sure India still has a few social problems of its own that will require a little more work. What country doesn't?
I see. Did you try renting a car and going out on a sightseeing trip by yourself? Do you know any Christians who went there and wanted to go to church on Sunday? Do you know any Jews who would go to Saudi Arabia under any circumstances?
I tend to doubt that racism (based on skin color) is an "instinct" for two different reasons:
(1) Back when man lived in Africa and had not yet developed agriculture to make adequate food production, The color of the skin of the neighboring tribes competing for your tribe's food was the same as the color of your tribe's skin.
Perhaps my dislike of tattoos is an instinct from that era as the neighboring tribe my well have decorated their skin differently. AFAIK, no one ever taught me to dislike them - they were rare when I was a child, so no reason to turn me against them by instruction, but they are revolting to me. I can not understand why anyone would want them, especially as getting them could give you terrible diseases, even AIDs, I think, as they can be a form of "needle sharing."
(2) There is no evidence of color-based racism in young children. This is well expressed in Brecks’s Three penny opera:
"You have to be carefully taught
Before you are 6 or 7 or eight.
To hate all the people your relatives hate
You have to be carefully taught
Before you are 6 or 7 or eight. ..."
This is close to the English version, but I may have misquoted it from memory, (Original is in German.), but you get the point.
As far as I know, instincts do not lay dormant for 8 to 10 years and then spring forth due to hormonal changes, etc.
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I disagree. Many peoples instincts change with different life changes. It often goes on without their consent, knowledge or understanding.
You know, a new mother runs around wildly putting things in order when never did before.
A father may instinctively be more conscious of certain things when his daughter is reaching maturity.
He may put up a privacy fence by the pool , check that the tire pressure is at safe levels on the car more often...make sure there's plenty of battery acid around in case you need it.
All examples you mention are response to changes in external circumstances. That is adaptation, not instinct.
By your way of thinking it is an instinct to stop for gasoline when the needle of the gas gauge nears "E"
Although I think the numerical subdivisions below are arbitary (I.e. only the all cap heading are instincts) here from (http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~port/teach/205/instinct.list.html) is one, rather long list of human instincts. Humans probably have an instinct to _____ .
SUSTENANCE
1. eat and drink; seek food and water
2. seek sweet and fatty (nutritious) foods
3. avoid eating smelly or bitter things
4. be cautious about novel foods
5. seek better resources than presently available
6. seek neighborhoods that are green and flowery
SEX
7. be interested in girls or boys (usually of opposite sex)
8. seek sexual contact and excitement; "do the deed" - but in private and
not with your children or parents
9. love children and the cute (female more than male)
10. compete for resources (wealth, fame, etc.)
11. pair up; find longterm partners (female more than male)
12. compete for the best (and, for males, the most) partners (eg, show off, dress up)
13. be aggressive, use force to gain advantage (male more than female)
DEFENSE
14. blink; flinch; flee
15. frown; snarl; attack for advantage (male more than female)
16. keep yourself alive; ensure your genetic survival
17. protect your own family
18. grades of importance: own children > spouse > siblings > clan, etc
19. obtain and defend resources: jobs, land, property,
hunting rights, sex partners, etc. (male more than female)
SOCIALITY
20. bond with your group, hangout with your family
21. try to reduce conflict within your group (female more than male)
22. compete for leadership in groups
23. imitate others: beliefs, knowledge and skills
24. be wary of and dislike `outsiders'
25. teach youngsters (female more than male)
26. smile; laugh; mope; frown; strut; cry
27. celebrate; share gifts (esp food); hug; grieve
28. display emotions: anger, happiness, disgust, sadness, fear, surprise
KNOW/LEARN
29. be curious about stuff, make sense of things
30. learn about your surroundings
31. play with toys (objects, pets, tools, machines, etc)
32. explore new places, find more efficient methods
33. be more adventurous - especially when young
TALK
34. learn new words and more effective speech (especially the young)
35. chitchat; commiserate; boast; scold; make jokes; entertain
36. organize others' behavior; lead your fellows (male more than female)
37. tell and listen to stories
38. make music, make artistic objects
As illustration of how arbitary the numbered ones are, I would replace 6 with "desire salt" as many prefer open spaces to wooded areas. A "human instinct" should be true in all cultures.
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My examples weren't great but I still think people and animals can have changes in their instincts that are positively related to chemical changes as well as circumstances and require no decisions or acknowledgement from the subject.
And your original point that children aren't born racist should be revised to say "most" or "many" children aren't born racist.
Anyone who has spent extensive time with young children can tell you that some are BORN with an aversion to people of a different color/look. AFAIK instincts are not common throughout an entire species and can very between individuals.
Looking through history you would have a very hard time convincing many that racism is not a "human instinct" (to use your term). It would be about like proving the origin of the universe.
And your original point that children aren't born racist should be revised to say "most" or "many" children aren't born racist.
Anyone who has spent extensive time with young children can tell you that some are BORN with an aversion to people of a different color/look. AFAIK instincts are not common throughout an entire species and can very between individuals.
Looking through history you would have a very hard time convincing many that racism is not a "human instinct" (to use your term). It would be about like proving the origin of the universe.
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
"Racism" as it's now defined, based on skin tone, is a modern manifestation of the instinct. The basic instinct of a pack-social predatory species is to regard any other pack as competitors for scarce resources (hunting range). Our huge forebrains give us the unique ability to override instinctive behavior with reasoned and learned behavior, but the caveman with the primitive instincts is still down there inside us and occasionally he breaks out or makes his presence known in other ways. Over the millennia we have increased the size of our "packs" to now include people we'll never even meet, but many of us still have a strong instinct to distrust or even hate people from other packs.
Skin color was an easy pack-identifier in the past and enough people have nefarious reasons to maintain it that it still hangs on, although greatly weakened in most parts of the world.
That is absolutely not true. Look at the young of any solitary species. Baby tigers play with each other and get along because they share the same food source: their mother. But once they become old enough to hunt their own food, their antisocial instinct kicks in and they regard each other as enemies.
Humans have the longest childhood of any animal so it takes longer for our adult behaviors to take control. Some of them mature even later than the age we customarily call "adulthood." The ability to make rational choices regarding risk management, deferred gratification, and virtually any decision involving important time-displaced consequences does not become reliable until the thirties. This is why it's still possible to indoctrinate people in their twenties into joining violent antisocial gangs, such as national armies.
hello varda
how are you?
Some horrific images there....... It is disturbing and horrifying how humans can do these sort of things to humans.
it seems that the human race are experts at killing and fucking each other up!!!
how are you?
Some horrific images there....... It is disturbing and horrifying how humans can do these sort of things to humans.
it seems that the human race are experts at killing and fucking each other up!!!
True, but not relevant as humans are not a "solitary species." Thus that is not evidence that skin color prejudice in humans is an instinct.
There is no evidence that humans have any prejudices based on skin color until they are taught to have one.
In Brazil, where I live, most common young adults have practically no color based prejudices. You can go to jail (but usually just heavy fine) for making even slightly derogatory remarks about someone with a different skin color - I.e. the teaching of skin color based discrimination is not very effective, but certainly still exist in the corporate world, where most of the higher ups / leaders have either been educated abroad or even are non-Brazilians.
Also you did not really address my point one because instinctive prejudices start way back in man's evolution, as you implied in your first post about their origins in the pre-agriculture days. They don't become instincts ingrained in our DNA in the last ~30,000 years when a tiny fraction of the people started to come into contact with others who did not have exactly their same color of skin.
Color based prejudices are TAUGHT. As Breck stated in the three penny opera:
"You have to be carefully taught,
before you are 6, or 7 or eight.
To hate all the people your relatives hate.
You have to be carefully taught,
before you are 6, or 7 or eight,
You have to be carefully taught. "
There is no more of instinct against black skin than there is against red hair. Back in the semi-human era when our instincts formed, everyone's skin was black.
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