When is racism okay?

Just as good but different. Are human being allowed to celebrate their uniqueness? Its like you're saying that if someone celebrates Christmas they are offending The Forth of July.

Again when you ask 'are whites sick of being told not to be racist' you assume that all whites are racist.

Not necessarily. Sometimes the accusers are wrong? Sometimes a white might feel like whites in general are being blamed for something when somebody was only trying to accuse specific whites.

Celebrating Christmas only puts down the fourth of July when you spit on copies of the declaration of independence as part of your Christmas celebration.
 
Not necessarily. Sometimes the accusers are wrong? Sometimes a white might feel like whites in general are being blamed for something when somebody was only trying to accuse specific whites.

Celebrating Christmas only puts down the fourth of July when you spit on copies of the declaration of independence as part of your Christmas celebration.

Well we could all make accusations against specific individuals. We could talk about 'black crime' and be speaking of specific individuals and yet someone would say that it is racist to categorize all blacks as criminals which is inferred by 'black crime'. This still doesn't explain why it is racist for a white person to be proud of their heritage.

Well no one would spit on it but flag burning is ok:p

Some might go so far in the effort to 'reclaim' their lost identity that they veer straight into the same web of lies that were perpetrated against them. Behold! The Chosen People From The Caucasus and The Iceman Inheritance written by African American 'scholar' Michael Bradley (we know blacks are not capable of racism only whites and I'll show you evidence):

In Chosen People From the Caucasus, Bradley extends his "Iceman" theory to a provocative and controversial discussion of the Hebrews. "Given their relatively small numbers, Jews have had an inordinately great influence on Western Civilization," says Bradley. "And, given the fact that Western Civilization has come to dominate the world over the past five hundred years, Jews have accordingly played a wildly disproportional role in the unfolding drama of all humanity."
Chosen People From the Caucasus focuses on the two separate groups of people who came from the Caucasus Mountains of the Middle East: the Biblical Hebrews who emerged from the southern Caucasus between 3000-2000 BC to invade Palestine, and the northern Caucasus "Khazars" who were converted to Judaism about 740 A.D. The Khazars were pushed into Central and Eastern Europe by Mongol invasions, and their descendants comprise the vast majority of modern Jewry. Both peoples, ironically, are considered to be "Jews"-- although they have no direct historical or genetic connections with each other -- except as they shared a Neanderthal origin in the Caucasus Mountains in the far distant and ancient pre-Judaic past.

Bradley contends that people and cultures emerging from the Caucasus Mountains (a known refuge of late-lingering Neanderthal populations) in proto-historical and historical times would have remained highly intelligent, highly aggressive and psychosexually maladapted (promoting a high level of in-group cohesion). These traits, Bradley contends, explain the survival of Biblical Hebrews against all odds and also the inordinate social influence of modern Western Jews.

Bradley contends that there is no mystique of "the chosen people." "Monotheism" -- a purely male and abstract Godhead -- is merely a result of Neanderthal glacial physical and mental adaptations or "maladaptations". Proven Neanderthal in-group cohesion and extreme aggression together resulted in a fiercely parochial "chosen people" perspective. The cultural fusion of the two separate streams of "Jews" has, since the 16th century, played an important role in the evolution of Western Civilization and thus in the molding of the entire world's present cultural profile.

Bradley contends that a uniquely high level of lingering Neanderthal aggression, perpetuated by ethnic prohibitions against outside marriage, has been responsible for the major role played by those calling themselves Jews in the discovery and conquest of the Americas, the transatlantic trade in Black Africans as slaves and cultural colonization of non-Whites by the West. It has been a role too often distorted and disguised by loud lamentations of "anti- Semitism."

Iceman Inheritance:

New research suggests that people with blonde hair will be completely extinct in 200 years. Blonde hair occurs only in people from northern Europe. The blonde gene that causes blonde hair color must be on both sides of the family, and according to the World Health Organization, there is now too few people who carry it. Professor Jonathan Rees from Edinburgh University is leading a two-year study into the genetics of blondes. Scientists say blondes will survive longest in Scandinavia where they are most concentrated, and they predict the last one alive will be from Finland.

So there is the passing of the Caucasoid--those of Nordic or Northwest European origins. Michael Bradley opens his book on the Caucasoid problem (The Iceman Inheritance, Warner Books, 1981) like this:

Let’s see if we can better understand the preceding paragraph. Even if abortion and contraceptives were banned in Europe and the US, the White birth rate would still remain below replacement levels. Starting with the new millennium, the US gives a tax credit for all children under the age of one. With that in mind, I ran across an article that appeared in the (Ritter, Malcolm, Detroit News, Oct 30, 2000. “Y chromosome under scope,” 4A). “The work on the DNA sequence of the Y chromosome should help researchers learn about causes of male infertility because it will help them identify genes that men need to make sperm"--we know they are talking about WHITE men.

Chromosomes make genes and gene families and genes help make sperm—a key to the disappearance of the Caucasian gene. Scurrying and scampering like albino rats to schematically study the “Y” and save the White Gene swim tank is the hottest Caucasian Recipe for making White babies as European and American scientists produce the most recent monkey in a test tube—primate—closest thing yet to a human being early in 2001.

"Racism itself is a predisposition of but one Race of Mankind - the White Race. Racism has its origins in the prehistory of the White Race alone. We attribute various threats of our survival to a conscious and self-protecting euphemism. Caucasoid behavior, Caucasoid values and Caucasoid psychology have attributed to the disappearance of the White Race. The problem with the world is white men" (p 3).

Johann Friedrich Blumenbach invented the title “Caucasian” in 1795 in the third edition of his—On the Natural Variety of Mankind. He took the name from Mount Caucasus. It was in that region he presumed was the original forms of mankind. So does "Caucasian" currently refer exclusively to people who are from the Caucasus? White today means people of European descent. Is that a misnomer? Regions and countries that are predominantly white, or of mainly European ancestry or Western culture, include Europe, Russia, the US, Canada, Argentina, Uruguay, Australia and New Zealand.

The reason the Caucasus had such an attraction to Blumenbach and other contemporaries of the 18th and 19th centuries was because of its proximity to Mount Ararat, where according to Biblical legend, Noah’s Ark eventually landed after the Deluge. Blumenbach believed the original humans were light-skinned, that the Caucasians had retained this whiteness as a constant, and that darkness of skin was a sign of change from the original. The concept of Caucasian Race and its stated or implied superiority over other races was often used as a moral excuse for colonialism by Western European countries.

He republished the text for general distribution in 1776. Isn’t it a coincidence there were three documents in 1776 helping to shape US Eurocentric History? 1) Thomas Jefferson's Declaration of Independence (on the politics of liberty); 2) Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations (on the economics of individualism); and 3) Blumenbach's treatise on racial classification (on the science of human diversity).


"Afrikans were descendants of Noah through Ham, whose sons were Cush (Ethiopia-Nubia), Misraim (Kemet or ancient Egypt), Phut (Somalia) and Canaan (Palestine). The sons of Cush, according to the biblical account, settled in Western Asia, the so-called Middle East, "'bounded east by the eastern branch of the Euphrates and the Persian gulf, south by Arabia, or the Arabian Sea, west by the Red Sea and Egypt, and north by Canaan and Syria and in Africa itself. Egyptians and the Ethiopians were confederated in the same government and soon became the same people in politics, literature and peculiarities.

The portion of the Earth which was first peopled, after Adam and Eve had left Paradise, was the land of Ethiopia, on the river Gihon that went out of the Garden of Eden, "which compasseth the whole land (or country) of Ethiopia," 4003 years before Christ. The children of Ethiopia were from Adam to Noah" and through Noah's progeny. (James W. C. Pennington, A Text Book of the Origin and History, etc. etc. of the Colored People Hartford, CT: L. Skinner, Printer, 1841; reprint Detroit: Negro History Press)"

http://www.michaelbradley.info/books/iceman_chosen.html

http://stewartsynopsis.com/Synopsis 2.htm


Oh no African americans cannot be affected by a racist system the way whites were, no not black folk because black folk are INNATELY peaceful and loving compared to the aggressive and maladaptive white people (and the jews. Did I forget to mention the jews?) who come from god only knows where, certainly not mother earth! No. Blacks are and can only be victims of it never perpetrate it. You see Niraka blacks cannot be racist because the problem in the world are 'white men' and before you go on about how this is a marginalized view within the african american community today I would also say that white racist groups are also marginalized within mainstream white society. So lets just put it this way both, black and white, are capable of being fucked up racist assholes and yes Asians too. So please don't give me this condescending bullshit about white racism and how the poor black man is being shitted upon, not now, not in this day and age, certainly not when a black man is sitting in the oval office. GET OVER IT!!! Get your mind out of the civil rights movement and into the year 2009. Blacks and whites are not dealing the same issues in the same society in the same way.
 
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Like the guy in deliver us from evil?

Dammit. And I thought you people were referring to Don't Deliver Us from Evil. Then I might have been remotely interested.

jeanne_goupil_medium_2_4.jpg


http://sunsetgun.typepad.com/sunsetgun/2008/10/pretty-poison-d.html
 
This still doesn't explain why it is racist for a white person to be proud of their heritage.

Is this thread a spin off of some incident at sciforums that I don't know about? When was a white person accused of being a racist for being proud of their heritage?

Lucy, I heard the "blacks can't be racists because blacks don't have power" line many times and I think that line is stupid. I don't like it when certain blacks seem to hate me simply because I am white. I think they are racists just like whites are when whites are racist even if I might be a little less critical of blacks being racist against whites than I am critical of whites being racist against blacks.

Whatever group is dominant is going to abuse their power because humans no how to have their cake (morality) and eat it (self indulgence) too. All that is required is a little self-deception and people of all races and all religions (including atheism) are quite good at self-deception. Europeans happened to dominate the Earth for 400 years and of course they abused there power. Any other group that manages to become dominant over any region will probably abuse there power as well.

I am blonde and I like my hair; if I created a society for the preservation of natural blondes that encouraged blonds to marry blondes so that there would be blondes in the future would that be racist? I like black hair too. Is my lack of attraction to brown and red hair racist?

We are what we are and I think it is OK for us to have preferences. When we start trying insist that others should acknowledge the correctness of our irrational preferences we might be crossing the line into racism or some related type of offensive "ism".

If we are going to judge large groups of people negatively I think we should at least be accurate.

If 20% of some group were murderers would it be racist to refuse to hire anybody from that group?

We should also be accurate when we claim that some group is superior. If 20% of some group was geniuses would we be racist for hiring only people from that group?

Is openly bashing or denigrate whites and European culture and atheism acceptable responses to the open bashing or denigration of non-whites and non-European culture and theism?

I don't know if the new rules means an end to Muslim bashing but if we are going to ban Muslim bashing we should probably also ban other types of Bashing.

I have doubts as to whether I understood the meaning of the original post? Lucy, do you think that Muslims and blacks get treated more respectfully at sciforums than whites and atheists get treated at sciforums?

What display of white or atheist pride at sciforums (that did not include a put down of some other group) has been accused of being racist?
 
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If its bad its bad all around Niraka. I am critical of anyone who displays bigotry which I believe more insidious when former abuses are an excuse for bigoted behaviour. I agree that any dominant group is capable of abusing power as I find the formula for racism to be prejudice+power.

Niraka: Is my lack of attraction to brown and red hair racist?

No its preference not racist.

Niraka: If 20% of some group were murderers would it be racist to refuse to hire anybody from that group?

Yes. It is too easy to show evidence that you can find murderers within every group.

Niraka: We should also be accurate when we claim that some group is superior.

Again no one is speaking of superiority.

Niraka: Is openly bashing or denigrate whites and European culture and atheism acceptable responses to the open bashing or denigration of non-whites and non-European culture and theism?

Its exactly the same. You don't make yourself clean by frolicking in the dirty water that a pig has wallowed in.

Niraka: I don't know if the new rules means an end to Muslim bashing but if we are going to ban Muslim bashing we should probably also ban other types of Bashing.

Muslim bashing has been complained about and I do believe it is being kept in check by the mod squad. I believe it was out of hand for a while, unfortunately it was the cause of Diamondhearts leaving the forum, but it does seem to have abated. Criticism of atheism or theism or particular groups of people is not what I am objecting to here. What I am saying is when members of a group who has been treated badly uses the same methods against another group, perhaps even the same group that was guilty of offense then they are no better. This is what I was trying to illustrate by posting the excerpts written by Bradley, its sickening no matter if its an old white English scientist measuring skulls or a black scholar explaining why jews and whites are 'maladaptive'. If you get that then you understand my point of view in this thread.

Niraka: Lucy, do you think that Muslims and blacks get treated more respectfully at sciforums than whites and atheists get treated at sciforums?

Nay good soldier. I am saying that members who complained of racism, discrimination and bigotry, unfair portrayals and categorization, lies and subversive posting tactics should not ask for balanced treatment by mods and community and then turn around to behave in the same manner towards jews, whites, westerners, atheists etc and then expect sympathy as the 'legitimate victimized members' who are wrongfully targeted and then speak of racism when these other members go about defending themselves or complain of dishonesty in posting methods and style. We're a rowdy lot Niraka I don't have to tell you that and we are not particularly politically correct but if a member wants to be a member and not the 'special token member' then they will have to be honest that they are no better than the rest of us here, no less guilty of goading, trolling, and inciting angry response especially if they feel they can say whatever the hell they like about any other group or nation. Either we all treat each other with the same courtesy we expect others to treat us or don't bother about the damn thing and let everyone say or post whatever the hell they like. But then don't get upset if someone has some strong, uncensored, rude and disparaging words in response.

Niraka: What display of white or atheist pride at sciforums (that did not include a put down of some other group) has been accused of being racist?

MZ's thread for one but it isn't totally about that thread. Uncalled for characterizations towards the West, jews or atheists or what have you has been doled out here and there through many threads when if the same had been done towards a muslim or a black person or some terrible categorization of a foreign nation or people there would be reports of racism blah blah blah. This is why I am asking if its ok to behave this way as long as said group or nation is dominant. I know the whole thread here has been exaggerated beyond belief but isn't that the sciforums way? If you look on the first page of this thread and read the link at the bottom of post #10 and read through it you will see a little of what I am talking about even though some of the responses in this thread might give you an inkling.
 
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When is racism and prejudice okay on sciforums?

Is it okay to openly bash or denigrate whites, european culture and atheism? Or does this not count as prejudice?

Is this some way of making up for past injustices or a subversive form of political correctness?

We are fast and quick to scream racism and insult when its hurled against blacks, Jews or muslims but is it okay to say things like this:

"Unfortunately, the only type of white pride in Australia, is the kind that drapes the flag around a pig's head."

Or maybe this is okay:

"What have you to be proud of thats exclusively "white"?

If anyone had said this about blacks or muslims it would have been deemed crossing the bounds of civility would it not?

So I am curious are all other ethnic groups and races off limits like a bunch of endangered species leaving anything European, white or atheist open for attack?

When I initially spoke out against the treatment of muslim members on this board it was out of a sense that its not okay to mock or marginalize an entire people. Attacking an individual because you dislike said individual is not the same as attacking their race or religion right? Or is it okay to attack someone's beliefs unless of course their beliefs are religious?

Note I am not speaking of criticism. One can easily criticize or challenge a belief or culture traits without completely maligning and denigrating said people. There has been a lot of talk recently about posting in 'good faith' and it usually takes some time to decide whether a poster is aware of what they are inferring or what their core beliefs are concerning a specific subject but it seems of late that if one is a minority they can be insulting as they wish towards any other culture or ethnicity as long as its a dominant one yet complain if they are subjected to the same treatment. I say we either stop all of it or allow for all of it.

Please I would like to know what the 'new rules' are concerning this subject, especially since the word racist is being hurled willy-nilly.

Wow. Of all the people. I would not have expected you to quote me out of context. My comments were in no way racist. They were criticisms of those that displayed what they believed to be white pride.
Perhaps I should have provided a link:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...as-muslim-school-row-gets-vicious-834600.html

If that's all it took, Then I apologise for not providing one earlier.

If not,
It seems to me that even when asked politely, and repeatedly reminded that I'm asking things in context, and attempting not to generalize, and being openly curious about "White Pride" and frank about what it represented to migrants/non whites. One can still be generalized as a fear mongering racist. I suppose it's a twisted Irony that it can be applied so broadly.
 
Originally Posted by Lucysnow
There is no worse predator than a former victim.

But are black people and Jews really victims any more? There comes a point when we need to stop apologising for what we haven't done. The British may have indulged in some thoroughly unpleasant practices back in the days of The Empire, but no-one now living ever had a hand in Imperialism or the Slave Trade. Likewise, no-one now living suffered its effects. In fact, my own ancestors were poor, working-class people with little power over affairs of state.
How many Israeli Jews are actually Holocaust survivors? How many of the original Nazis and their supporters are still about?

So claiming for past wrongs is all very well, but you have to question modern minorities' right to do so.
 
That's cool. You still characterized whites as de facto racists and not worthy of having any 'fier de l'etre'.

No. I characterized those "displaying" the white pride that I've seen as racists and as far as I see it, they have no reason to be proud of draping flags around pigs heads.
I mean, come on. there are plenty of other things to be proud of.

Fortunately though, I'm sure white pride parades will be held soon.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-august-11-2009/reform-madness---white-minority
 
But are black people and Jews really victims any more? There comes a point when we need to stop apologising for what we haven't done. The British may have indulged in some thoroughly unpleasant practices back in the days of The Empire, but no-one now living ever had a hand in Imperialism or the Slave Trade. Likewise, no-one now living suffered its effects. In fact, my own ancestors were poor, working-class people with little power over affairs of state.
How many Israeli Jews are actually Holocaust survivors? How many of the original Nazis and their supporters are still about?

So claiming for past wrongs is all very well, but you have to question modern minorities' right to do so.

It's different when you have an indigenous population that was disadvantage well into the 60s, even after decolonisation, as Australia does.
 
What would a non-racist display of white pride look like?

"White" seems too broad to celebrate.
 
White and black are lazy terms we say to describe background, which is the heart of this bullshit. I'm pretty fair skinned now (now that the sun will fucking cook me, where 10 years ago I could get a nice tan), yet I hold my arm up next to a "Black" guy and LO! We are actually both brown. We are all just so many shades of brown.

These lazy terms are used as quick points of reference and often in conjunction with a stereotype like "White men can't dance ...are racist...etc." "Black men are douche's who never pay child support" etc.

It's often, not "Racism" towards whites...it's like..."backgroundism". Well fuck you my ancestors were poor, so fuck your reparations. Go collect from a Rockefeller.
 
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