When is racism okay?
- Thread starter Mrs.Lucysnow
- Start date
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
What leader? No one is speaking of any leader.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
The Irish were shown the door. Are you saying that it wasn't oppressive towards the Irish to be treated an characterized in this way? We know it was for blacks so why would it not be for the Irish?
And forget about the zoos Sam, racism, prejudice, discrimination and bigotry doesn't hinge on being placed in a zoo.
BNP supporter? You mean Wayne? No he's not a BNP supporter he voted for them in one election for a variety of reasons. Mostly to send a message to labor. Again no need to evade what we are discussing here by trying to needle me about my personal life. Its a poor strategy and way off point.
Not familiar enough with Irish history to be a good judge, but I am guessing that the Irish like black people did not suffer a stigma associated with being Irish everywhere. They were not considered subhumans by all societies and could move e.g. to the US and change their environment. A black person in the US was still a slave and I was still shown the door on several occasions.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Actually they did Sam they did suffer a stigma for being Irish in England, in Ireland and even in the States. They were considered subhuman and coming to the States did not change there status as they were treated like shit here in the States where as I said 'Irish need not apply'. I know of a lot of black people who have never experienced being 'shown the door'.
As for slavery:
"During the reign of Elizabeth I, English privateers captured 300 African Negroes, sold them as slaves, and initiated the English slave trade. Slavery was, of course, an old established commerce dating back into earliest history. Julius Caesar brought over a million slaves from defeated armies back to Rome. By the 16th century, the Arabs were the most active, generally capturing native peoples, not just Africans, marching them to a seaport and selling them to ship owners. Dutch, Portuguese and Spanish ships were originally the most active, supplying slaves to the Spanish colonies in America. It was not a big business in the beginning, but a very profitable one, and ship owners were primarily interested only in profits. The morality of selling human beings was never a factor to them.
After the Battle of Kinsale at the beginning of the 17th century, the English were faced with a problem of some 30,000 military prisoners, which they solved by creating an official policy of banishment. Other Irish leaders had voluntarily exiled to the continent, in fact, the Battle of Kinsale marked the beginning of the so-called “Wild Geese”, those Irish banished from their homeland. Banishment, however, did not solve the problem entirely, so James II encouraged selling the Irish as slaves to planters and settlers in the New World colonies. The first Irish slaves were sold to a settlement on the Amazon River In South America in 1612. It would probably be more accurate to say that the first “recorded” sale of Irish slaves was in 1612, because the English, who were noted for their meticulous record keeping, simply did not keep track of things Irish, whether it be goods or people, unless such was being shipped to England. The disappearance of a few hundred or a few thousand Irish was not a cause for alarm, but rather for rejoicing. Who cared what their names were anyway, they were gone.
Almost as soon as settlers landed in America, English privateers showed up with a good load of slaves to sell. The first load of African slaves brought to Virginia arrived at Jamestown in 1619. English shippers, with royal encouragement, partnered with the Dutch to try and corner the slave market to the exclusion of the Spanish and Portuguese. The demand was greatest in the Spanish occupied areas of Central and South America, but the settlement of North America moved steadily ahead, and the demand for slave labor grew.
The Proclamation of 1625 ordered that Irish political prisoners be transported overseas and sold as laborers to English planters, who were settling the islands of the West Indies, officially establishing a policy that was to continue for two centuries. In 1629 a large group of Irish men and women were sent to Guiana, and by 1632, Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat in the West Indies. By 1637 a census showed that 69% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves, which records show was a cause of concern to the English planters. But there were not enough political prisoners to supply the demand, so every petty infraction carried a sentence of transporting, and slaver gangs combed the country sides to kidnap enough people to fill out their quotas.
Although African Negroes were better suited to work in the semi-tropical climates of the Caribbean, they had to be purchased, while the Irish were free for the catching, so to speak. It is not surprising that Ireland became the biggest source of livestock for the English slave trade."
http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/1638
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Sam: "I was still shown the door on several occasions."
Some thing tells me you weren't signing Alice's Restaurant".
There's your trouble.
Some un-happeh day, we're going to laugh our assholes out of office.
Some thing tells me you weren't signing Alice's Restaurant".
There's your trouble.
Some un-happeh day, we're going to laugh our assholes out of office.
Sounds more like economics than discrimination.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
What?
And slavery wasn't about economics? Is it so difficult for you to admit that whites were mistreated? Slavery of any kind is a matter of economics. And what of the discrimination against the Irish? How could they be so treated if they were not being discriminated against?
How many Irishmen were lynched for looking at a white woman? How many Irish women were strung from trees and had their pregnant wombs ripped open and their fetuses smashed because they were considered savages? Only because of their colour?
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Oh so you are only worthy of the label of being oppressed is you get lynched looking for a white woman?
:roflmao:
I hope Tiassa is taking notes on what it means to post in 'good faith'.
"In 1649, Cromwell landed in Ireland and attacked Drogheda, slaughtering some 30,000 Irish living in the city. Cromwell reported: “I do not think 30 of their whole number escaped with their lives. Those that did are in safe custody in the Barbados.” A few months later, in 1650, 25,000 Irish were sold to planters in St. Kitt. During the 1650s decade of Cromwell’s Reign of Terror, over 100,000 Irish children, generally from 10 to 14 years old, were taken from Catholic parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In fact, more Irish were sold as slaves to the American colonies and plantations from 1651 to 1660 than the total existing “free” population of the Americas!
But all did not go smoothly with Cromwell’s extermination plan, as Irish slaves revolted in Barbados in 1649. They were hanged, drawn and quartered and their heads were put on pikes, prominently displayed around Bridgetown as a warning to others. Cromwell then fought two quick wars against the Dutch in 1651, and thereafter monopolized the slave trade. Four years later he seized Jamaica from
Spain, which then became the center of the English slave trade in the Caribbean."
They went through hell Sam but is it that you cannot sympathize?
Again you're confusing several issues. Americans are throwing white phosphorus on Afghanis. Are they being racist? What Cromwell did to the Irish is not because they were Irish, but because they were in the way of his ambitions. "Collateral damages" as the secular educated people call them. Blacks were targeted for their colour regardless of any circumstance.
I certainly hope so
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
For fucks sake. Thanks Hype I've never seen the face gear before
They put many in it alive.
But on a happier note: Pretend you're not a target, and it may come true.
But on a happier note: Pretend you're not a target, and it may come true.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
I was wondering when we would get back to either Israel, Iraq or Afghanistan. You know very well what I think of U.S policy in the middle-east so why bother asking me what I think about it. What the English did towards the Irish was EXACTLY because they were Irish and they were targeted PRECISELY because they were Irish just like Black people. So you are wrong.
Again I ask you is it that you cannot sympathize for the way they were treated?
I never considered myself a target and had to be shown out of more than one store before I realised what it meant.
Hmm so its all racism?
"I never considered myself a target and had to be shown out of more than one store before I realised what it meant."
Don't change now/ it doesn't matter.
Don't change now/ it doesn't matter.
Mrs.Lucysnow
Valued Senior Member
Sam: I never considered myself a target and had to be shown out of more than one store before I realised what it meant.
Again I know many black people who live in the States who have never once experienced being shown out of a store.
Sam: Hmm so its all racism?
Evidently. I mean wouldn't you say so? Is it that you have no sympathy for the way they were treated?
Again I know many black people who live in the States who have never once experienced being shown out of a store.
Sam: Hmm so its all racism?
Evidently. I mean wouldn't you say so? Is it that you have no sympathy for the way they were treated?
I can't say I haven't changed, it did make me understand what it means to be black [in a small and very insignificant way]. But since I am already used to caste Brahmins in Indian society, it was just another bunch of people to add to those who I consider as anachronistic and deluded.
Meanwhile I am surprised at Lucy, she's changed a lot in her outlook. Or maybe, I'm just getting to know her views better.
Lucky them?
Sure but having sympathy for them doesn't mean that I think its an occasion for celebrating white pride. More like an argument in favour of suppressing such tendencies.
"I'm just getting to know her views better."
Me too. Lucies know. I've even got a very clever cat named Lucy.
Me too. Lucies know. I've even got a very clever cat named Lucy.