When Fatalism might really be Fatal...

[SetiAlpha6]

A group from my church has gone down to Mexico on a “missions” trip and they are there right now. One of my nephews is with them and I think this is immoral, foolish, and unwise. And it just shows me, yet again, how blind faith can make a person or even a whole group who might otherwise have some morality, intelligence, and wisdom, lose it.

From their perspective, they are, of course, living and breathing in the very center of God’s will and so come hell or swine flu they will think that they are doing exactly what God wants them to do regardless of the potential dangers to themselves and any innocent person they come in contact with on the trip back or once they get back. Faith teaches them to think this way, does it not? I mean, if one of them dies from contracting swine flu or even wipes out his entire family with it, once back in the USA, it is all “God’s will”, right?

From my perspective, they are putting themselves and everyone they come in contact with (their family, their church, their hometown, even their country), at risk of contracting swine flu and the possibility of dying from it.

As I said, I regard this trip as immoral, foolish, and unwise.

What do you think?

 

[wynn]

My neighbor won a tourist trip to Spain a while back. The trip is in about a week or so from now.
She will go.

See, there are other motivations than religion that trump concern for swine flu.

 

[cosmictraveler]

Some people just have no common sense and they usually end up in trouble. In this case they might go down and catch something then bring it back to spread around here!

 

[snake river rufus]

As I said, I regard this trip as immoral, foolish, and unwise.

What do you think?

It would depend (to me) on the reason they are going to Mexico. If it's to pray with the sick and/or ailing, then yes, it is all three. If they are bringing medical help and know what they are doing then it's simply risky.
I found it interesting that you refered to these people as 'intelligent' and then go on to show that they exhibit no such quality.:shrug:

 

[SetiAlpha6]

It would depend (to me) on the reason they are going to Mexico. If it's to pray with the sick and/or ailing, then yes, it is all three. If they are bringing medical help and know what they are doing then it's simply risky.
I found it interesting that you refered to these people as 'intelligent' and then go on to show that they exhibit no such quality.:shrug:

I understand what you are saying...

They are going to help with some building projects and to simply love the people who are living there. So I view that part of their trip as very loving, compassionate, and yes even "intelligent". Their heart is mostly in the right place, in my view.

By the way, there are, in my observation, many, many very intelligent people who are also Christians. Being a Christian does not automatically make a person unintelligent as some might suppose or even wish to be the case. There are many reasons why this is so. It is always easy to demonize the other side. And it is almost always an unbalanced false view.

I like their heart motivation for going I just doubt their wisdom in this particular instance because of the recent concerns about swine flu.

Thanks!

 

[snake river rufus]

By the way, there are, in my observation, many, many very intelligent people who are also Christians. Being a Christian does not automatically make a person unintelligent as some might suppose or even wish to be the case. Thanks!

You mistake my meaning, I said your post indicates that you don't seem to believe that they are intelligent.
That aside I do tend to be somewhat leery of people who accept supernatural beings with out any evidence. There is a flaw in their critical thinking skills showing. But I leave them alone as long as they do the same for me.

 

[swarm]

A "mission" is the ultimate insult believers from one religion can impose on believers from another.

 

[SkinWalker]

The OP isn't asking for commentary on the practice of missionary work, rather the decision to place oneself at risk unnecessarily. Please stay on topic in this thread, though a separate thread on missionary work in general might be interesting.

To answer the OP, I would say that, yes, the risk is both genuine and, perhaps, foolhardy. It isn't something that should be ignored and, hopefully, they're taking precautions in-country.

Having said that, and while I'm generally opposed to the principle of missionary work as an anthropologist (missionaries seek to change cultures not preserve or study them), if the missionaries are providing services without evangelistic strings attached (like delivering food, medicine, clothing, education, building roads, etc.), then this sort of humanitarian aid might be timely with the current crisis in Mexico. If they're taking good precautions and providing life-giving services, then the net result might be good.

But if their whole purpose is to go door knocking and spreading the "word" of their god, then, yes, their whole trip is a waste and the risk is wholly unnecessary.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

You mistake my meaning, I said your post indicates that you don't seem to believe that they are intelligent.

Thanks for helping me better understand your point!

That aside I do tend to be somewhat leery of people who accept supernatural beings with out any evidence. There is a flaw in their critical thinking skills showing. But I leave them alone as long as they do the same for me.

I think many of them are confused by the difference between the realities they are hit with in this world and the things they are taught in their faith, because quite often they are contradictory. Some of them give up trying to figure out how it all works. Some of them separate their "physical lives" from their "spiritual lives" because of pain or fear or love or something else and live in a kind of duality existence.

I think that the "spiritual thinking" side of them is sometimes intelligent and sometimes not. If it is not and if it rules the day then it can become a problem to them and to others. And it can be a problem when all "spiritual thinking" is regarded as good just because it is "spiritual thinking" or just because it comes from a "spiritual authority".

Anyway... Let me know if you have any further thoughts on this.

Thanks!

 

[snake river rufus]

As skinwalker suggested,, Perhaps a new post?

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

I agree that theists often think & act in the manner presented in the OP.
I disagree about the risk. The CDC claims 36,000 people per year die from the flu in the USA yet doesn't call it epidemic. Now people are acting as if the swine flu is pandemic.
We keep this up then we'll have Cry Wolf Syndrome when there's a genuine cause for such concern.

 

[Asguard]

its hardly that dagerious if you take the proper precautions like learning level 2 infection control, making sure to take a good surply of p2 (thats the australian standed) masks which they have been fitted for and been taught to use. making sure they shave daily (or more frequently if necceraly), taking disposable gloves and washing hands frequently

 

[SetiAlpha6]

its hardly that dagerious if you take the proper precautions like learning level 2 infection control, making sure to take a good surply of p2 (thats the australian standed) masks which they have been fitted for and been taught to use. making sure they shave daily (or more frequently if necceraly), taking disposable gloves and washing hands frequently

I think they were only planning on washing their hands more frequently and were mostly relying on the prayers of others (in other words relying on God) for protection.

Of course, it is very likely that some, if not many, of those who have already died from swine flu were relying on the very same things to protect them from harm as well. Ooops!

This still concerns me a bit... Perhaps because my own nephew is one of the people taking this risk.

Thanks

 

[SetiAlpha6]

I agree that theists often think & act in the manner presented in the OP.
I disagree about the risk. The CDC claims 36,000 people per year die from the flu in the USA yet doesn't call it epidemic. Now people are acting as if the swine flu is pandemic.
We keep this up then we'll have Cry Wolf Syndrome when there's a genuine cause for such concern.

You may be right... But... I thought they were saying that swine flu was killing even young and healthy people not just the really old and already sick as might be the norm.

Is that true or false?

 

[snake river rufus]

You may be right... But... I thought they were saying that swine flu was killing even young and healthy people not just the really old and already sick as might be the norm.

Is that true or false?

"They" are saying all kinds of things. Unfortunatly news media is growing more and more profit driven, leading to more sensationalism and hyperbole. I need to wait for detailed information before I'll worry too much.

 

[Asguard]

i doubt the WHO work for "commertial sensational media". they are the ones who moved this to level 5, not the media. they oviously belive there is a risk of a pandemic because there is only one rank higher and that is pandemic

 

[snake river rufus]

i doubt the WHO work for "commertial sensational media". they are the ones who moved this to level 5, not the media. they oviously belive there is a risk of a pandemic because there is only one rank higher and that is pandemic

I haven't seen that on the news yet, all that I've noticed is that texas is closing some schools. Do you recall your source?

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

You may be right... But... I thought they were saying that swine flu was killing even young and healthy people not just the really old and already sick as might be the norm.
Is that true or false?

I am right, considering all I've read & heard about it. IF I'm missing something important, I'd like to know.
The Flu killing just the really old & already sick is not the norm by a looooong shot.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

i doubt the WHO work for "commertial sensational media". they are the ones who moved this to level 5, not the media.

I doubt they're being sensible. WHO do you think they work for?
Regardless of WHO or whoever else, the media is moving this to level hysteria.

they oviously belive there is a risk of a pandemic because there is only one rank higher and that is pandemic

I wouldn't assume motives are obvious in this farce.
WHY do they believe there is enough SIGNIFICANT risk of a pandemic???