What's wrong with steroids?

Syzygys

As a mother, I am telling you
Valued Senior Member
Let's say I am an apologist for Barry Bond. Here are my points:

1. When he was using steroids, it WASN'T illegal to use them in baseball.

2. Sport IS entertainment. (and business) Nobody wants to see 30-50-70 years old records, we want NEW records. If you want improvements, we need to use what technology gives us...

3. What is the difference between using better equipment/trading facilities/ better food and using steroids? One sportsman always can have some kind of advantage over the other.

4. Steroids can be dangerous to one's health, but if one decides to take that risk, who are we to tell them no??
 
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We expect that atheletes will hire personal trainers who will use the latest science to improve the training/exercising sessions themselves. That makes the athletes stronger and faster than they were in the past and we don't care. We expect the althletes will buy the latest and best designed running shoes, making them potentially faster and less prone to injury and we don't care.

The difference, though, is that using the latest training techhniques do not shorten your lifespan, so your competition is free to adopt them too without sacrificing their health for the sake of the game.

At a certain point, too, science renders the game pointless. There is a "swingless" golf club that uses gunpowder charges to shoot the ball from the end of the club, rather than making you swing the club itself. Some day, we may well have powered exoskeletons that double the strength and speed of the players...some day, too, we may have androids that are athletically superior in every way. It's like the joke from Futurama:

Bender: Clem Johnson? That sack of skin wouldn't have lasted one pitch in the old Robot Leagues. Now, Wireless Joe Jackson, there was a [home run]-hitting machine.
Leela: Exactly. He was a machine designed to hit [home runs]. I mean, come on, Wireless Joe was nothing but a programmable bat on wheels.
Bender: Oh, and I suppose Pitch-O-Mat 5000 was just a modified Howitzer?
Leela: Yep.
Bender: You know, you humans are so scared of a little robot competition you won't even let us on the field.

Part of the thrill of the game is the thought of it as an avenue of human accomplishment, rather than a mere exercise in the application of modern technology, be it mechanical, medical or pharmacological.

At some point, and it's a fuzzy line, the science becomes intrusive enough that it starts to violate our expectations regarding what's acceptable. If steroids are acceptable though, then why is the humble spitball forbidden? Is the pitcher not allowed to use his saliva in any way he wants?

For me, "better hitting through chemistry" just isn't a very compelling slogan for the national pastime.
 
I am sick and tired of hearing about the Barry Bonds controversy. I really don’t care if he took steroids or not. I don’t have a problem with professional athletes using steroids. They are willing to take the risks (acne, gynecomastia, testicular shrinkage, an increased risk of having a heart attack) therefore they should reap the rewards. I would really like to see the creation of professional sport leagues that allow their players to use steroids and other illegal narcotics. We could have your supposedly drug free sport leagues that are already in existence, and we could have your new any goes sport leagues, where the players wouldn’t be expected to act like role models for the children of the world.

The stupid idea that professional athletes are suppose to be role models is another thing that makes me upset. The commissioners of professional sport leagues and the executives of corporations like Nike and Coca Cola want athletes to have a false family friendly image simply because it increases their profits. Professional athletes are not saints, and they no one should expect them to act like saints. Why should a person that is able to run fast or jump high be expected to act like a role model for the children of the world? It’s ridiculous.

I can’t help wonder what the future will be like when gene therapy and genetically engineered humans becomes a reality. What are people going to say when genetically enhanced athletes have an advantage over the non-enhanced athletes?
 
Let's say I am an apologist for Barry Bond. Here are my points:

1. When he was using steroids, it WASN'T illegal to use them in baseball.[/qoute]
How do you this fact?

2. Sport IS entertainment. (and business) Nobody wants to see 30-50-70 years old records, we wants NEW records. If you want improvements, we need to use what technology gives us...

To me there is nothing wrong with age old records. The reason why team sport athletes of all kinds find it harder to break records is because coaching and competitive strategy has also improved. There are other reasons, like back then people weren't so lazy, today people rely on technology for everything. The main problem is that the society is generally becoming lazy.

3. What is the difference between using better equipment/trading facilities/ better food and using steroids? One sportsman always can have some kind of advantage over the other.
I thought about this before. Shoes, helmet, and sports drinks can only help so much. Steriods take a little "try harder" away from the game of an athlete, leaving a left over of an over paid and over exaggerated athlete, and we haven't even considered the poor fans who go to games expecting to watch these people play from their hearts; at least a little. For instance, there are certain rackets in tennis that can add considerable speed to the ball everytime the ball is played, these rackets are used mostly in training, imagine if you were to watch Federa and Nadal using those rackets to play a grand slam-boring.

4. Steroids can be dangerous to one's health, but if one decides to tale that ruisk, who are we to tell them no??
We as their friends, family, and fans.
 
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I am sick and tired of hearing about the Barry Bonds controversy. I really don’t care if he took steroids or not. I don’t have a problem with professional athletes using steroids. They are willing to take the risks (acne, gynecomastia, testicular shrinkage, an increased risk of having a heart attack) therefore they should reap the rewards. I would really like to see the creation of professional sport leagues that allow their players to use steroids and other illegal narcotics. We could have your supposedly free sport leagues that are already in existence, and we could have your new any goes sport leagues, where the players wouldn’t be expected to act like role s for the children of the world.

The stupid idea that professional athletes are suppose to be role s is another thing that makes me upset. The commissioners of professional sport leagues and the executives of corporations like Nike and Coca Cola want athletes to have a false family friendly image simply because it increases their profits. Professional athletes are not saints, and they no one should expect them to act like saints. Why should a person that is able to run fast or jump high be expected to act like a role for the children of the world? It’s ridiculous.

I can’t help wonder what the future will be like when gene therapy and genetically engineered humans becomes a reality. What are people going to say when genetically enhanced athletes have an advantage over the non-enhanced athletes?
Its all fun and games until some people gets really hurt, then we have to stage a hearing at the senate, go over evidences, perharps attend a funeral, apologize to a few people, fine a few people, and life goes on. Very familiar scenario. In horse racing, like the Kentucky derby and Belmont stakes in America, horses are all expected to be equal, which is why people place their bets on horses. In some real life cases, certain horses get doped up and win big money for sponsores while others loose their bets and continue to wonder what could have been. Human athletes are the same, some dude gets juiced up on smack and wins games while simultenously inflating his market value and endorsements. Other people in his team might have to settle for smaller salary caps, managers have to pass the high rates on ticket prices, and sometimes the same high and mighty athlete still ends up leaving the team for better pastures elsewhere. By the way, if you guessed what happened to those high performance horses after they retire, you guessed right-sometimes they are simply put down after breeding. :eek:
 
Have kids, Syz? If so, look at them. If not, look at some younger extended relatives, or maybe a little brother or sister.

Did you ever play sports in school?

Given what steroids do to the user's health, just imagine that steroid use is a prerequisite for people to be in sports. Nobody should have to do that to themselves for something like "America's pastime", a game and league that stands on integrity and honesty (this despite the reality of Bud Selig).

But think about it: track and field, swimming, bicycling ... no, I don't think my daughter should have to become a freaking mutant in order to participate.

That's what's wrong with steroids.
 
Have kids, Syz? If so, look at them.

Using steroids is a free choice issue, like smoking or using drugs. So please cut this kind of crap, I am not advocating FORCING steroids on kids...

Did you ever play sports in school?

Guess what, I did, I have the medals to prove it. (teamcaptain too)

Again, we are discussing PROFESSIONAL sport and not highschool playtime.
Otherwise guess what? When pros were asked if they would give 4 years out of their lifes for an Olympic medal the majority said yes. That is how much they want to achive success in sport.

iven what steroids do to the user's health, just imagine that steroid use is a prerequisite for people to be in sports.

It already IS. Just they are illegal ones. You don't seriously think that today athletes don't take a shitload of additional suppliments??? And if you don't, you stay behind....

what's wrong with steroids.

It doesn't hurt if you address the issue, which is steroids in pro sports....
 
Also there are a few questionable but legal practices, have been used for 2-3 decades like blooddopping. They drain a little blood from the pro 2-3 months before the game and a week before that they give it back. So he has shall we say access blood in his system. The other sportsman doesn't.

Again, it is entertainment, a freakshow, people need circus, so let's give it to them....
 
Syzygys said:

Using steroids is a free choice issue, like smoking or using drugs. So please cut this kind of crap, I am not advocating FORCING steroids on kids...

It's not too much to ask young athletes to do some conditioning, for instance. After all, if you're going to play soccer, you need to be able to run for extended periods. Same with basketball. It's not too much to ask kids to practice. After all, you don't learn to shoot freethrows or hit a curveball by mere chance. Tiger Woods may have had some great innate talent, but he didn't get where he was without loads of practice. This is part of how it goes.

But the fact is that those who want it most are usually those who make the team. And if those who want it most are turning themselves into mutants, there's no place left in the sports programs for the natural athletes.

That people consider sports a freakshow is exactly what's wrong with sports. It's how we've let things go so far awry as it is.

You say that you're not advocating forcing people to use steroids, but that's the effect of allowing them. The ones who want it most will be hulking mutants, and the natural athletes--the reason sports are impressive in the first place--will have no place in the game.

So, what if your kid is a gifted natural athlete? And yet, what if he's not good enough for the team because everyone else is compensating with steroids? If your kid wants to participate, s/he needs to take steroids.

Basketball is beautiful when properly played as a team sport; I stopped watching pro basketball because it's become, as you put it, an entertainment freakshow. Steroid use will only continue that trend toward focus on the individual.
 
Your thread title suggests there must be something wrong with steroids. Maybe the title should have been "Is there something wrong with steroids ?".
 
i used to be against steroids 100%, i always preached natural training methods and staying pure to reach my goals. but over the years i have seen so many products on the market to enhance everything, male hormone enhancers, energy boosters, other forms of anabolic sups, creatine type substances, super modified protein powders, the list goes on and on for miles.


nowdays i dont even know where i stand, but i still hold true to my old words. i have never taken a single steroid or illegal sports drug, i have never touched male hormone sups, but i do take monohydrate and protein powders, and i do drink sports drinks and eat energy bars. i do take vitamin tabs.

i just think to myself, well there are so many products on the market, some even do the same thing as steroids and are anabolic. you can buy 100% natural anabolic foods and herbs. its like steroids dont even matter anymore beause you can cut corners at every turn. back in the old days of working out and training you couldent get hold of all this new age stuff to aid you, it was hard work mixed with milk, eggs and steak. and it has advanced so much since then that you just end up thinking "well steroids aint that bad, because we cheat so much now anyway" because its all advances in science and progress to the human peak of excellence.


but i still cant bring myself to take steroids and i never will.


peace.
 
Enmos said:

Your thread title suggests there must be something wrong with steroids. Maybe the title should have been "Is there something wrong with steroids ?".

Perhaps the question is addressed to those who already presume there is something wrong with steroids? At least, that's how I took it. Of course, I also presume there is something wrong with steroids. For instance, what about the question, "Is there something wrong with encouraging children to endanger their health just so they can make the baseball team?

To take it a step further: "Is there something wrong with giving cigarettes to kids?"

After all, steroids, like cigarettes, are shown to do severe damage to the users. However, since steroids give the public at large home run records and crunching hits on the (American) football field, people are willing to cut them some slack, whereas cigarettes are considered flat-out evil.
 
We want athletes to perform to their utmost, do whatever it takes.

We want athletes who would take steroids if they could, whatever - all out, balls to the wall competition. No second guessing.

And if we want such athletes, we have to protect them - we have to set up the competition so that they can go flat out, never quit, without killing themselves.

That's why it's the seconds, not the fighters, who throw in the towel in a boxing ring. Tha's why there is a boxing ring, and not a bar with weapons to hand. That's why Indy cars have design limits. That's why a drug that will kill five years early but give a 20 win season now is forbidden to the pitchers of professional baseball.

And, in the larger world, that's why we forbid selling kidneys, volunteering for suicide in a snuff film, putting children up as collateral for a loan, etc.
 
Would you go so far as we want our athletes to be ... inhuman?

And, would that really be a good thing for humanity?
 
Perhaps the question is addressed to those who already presume there is something wrong with steroids? At least, that's how I took it. Of course, I also presume there is something wrong with steroids. For instance, what about the question, "Is there something wrong with encouraging children to endanger their health just so they can make the baseball team?

To take it a step further: "Is there something wrong with giving cigarettes to kids?"

After all, steroids, like cigarettes, are shown to do severe damage to the users. However, since steroids give the public at large home run records and crunching hits on the (American) football field, people are willing to cut them some slack, whereas cigarettes are considered flat-out evil.

All of your comments in this thread seem to be about your belief that professional athletes shouldn’t use steroids because it encourages children to use them. I am going to repeat some of the comments that I made in my previous post. Professional athletes shouldn’t be idolized and viewed as role models by the millions of children around the world. Barry Bonds is not responsible for the numerous amounts of teenaged athletes that may decide to use steroids to enhance their performance. Most parents just need to do a better job of raising their children. It is unfortunate, but most children receive most of their guidance from the television and the internet instead of receiving it from responsible parents. Teenagers that receive the proper guidance as children are more likely to look for other role models. Perhaps a teacher, a Nobel Prize winner, our their parents.

I am also going to repeat what I wrote about athletes deserving what ever they get. They are willing to take the risks, therefore they deserve to reap the rewards. Everything has a price. The price of fame and fortune in professional sports includes a lot of pain, hard work, determination, and sometime a little help in the form of a pill or an injection. Some athletes are able to have successful careers without steroids and some need a little help. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

By the way, if the MLB or any other sports league wants to discourage kids for using steroids they could make a commercial showing the image of a former body builder with B sized breast complaining about all of the health problem that he has. I am sure that would discourage some kids from using steroids when they get older.
 
Let's say I am an apologist for Barry Bond. Here are my points:

1. When he was using steroids, it WASN'T illegal to use them in baseball.

2. Sport IS entertainment. (and business) Nobody wants to see 30-50-70 years old records, we want NEW records. If you want improvements, we need to use what technology gives us...

3. What is the difference between using better equipment/trading facilities/ better food and using steroids? One sportsman always can have some kind of advantage over the other.

4. Steroids can be dangerous to one's health, but if one decides to take that risk, who are we to tell them no??


Let us say that the person in question was only 15 years old and trying to get into a high school football team and needed a little more muscle mass or whatever steroids do to you. Do you think that would be a good idea?

Steroids can and do KILL people. If that isn't enough to make them stop using them I don't know what else is.


The problem is that when one becomes use to how well they help you they just start using more and more. It's an addiction after awhile and they just can't stop. That is SOME of those that use steroids but who is to say who can control them and who can't and at what age?


Let us try to save a few great athletes lives by keeping thim off of the bad steroids as well as everything else that only can hurt them in the long run.
 
It's more than just "role models"

g0101 said:

Professional athletes shouldn’t be idolized and viewed as role models by the millions of children around the world.

It's not a matter of idolizing an athlete. It's a matter of sending the message to aspiring young athletes that "this is what is necessary to make it". It's not that you're not making any good points. In fact, I agree that it's a mistake to make role models out of professional athletes in general, and the elite specifically.

But imagine you're testing candidates for a job: "Some candidates are able to be successful on their own merits; some others need a little 'help'."

If steroids are what it takes, there is no longer any need for natural talent and athletic ability. And the natural athlete is what made competitive sports so important in the first place. Now it's just, as Syzygys has rightly expressed, "entertainment, a freakshow".

I would like to consider what may at first seem a strange source, Moody and Martin's The Course of Irish History:

The nationalistic, and even separatist impact of Yeats and his friends was profound, but it was limited and confined mainly to fellow poetic natures. However, what the literary revival lacked in popular appeal was supplied by the Gaelic League. The Gaelic League, founded by Douglas Hyde and Eoin MacNeill in 1893, had its own dream--at first to keep Irish alive where it was still spoken, and later, to restore Irish as the spoken language of the country. By giving up our native language and customs, said Hyde, we had thrown away the best claim which we had upon the world's recognition of us as a separate nation. Therefore the task facing the present generation of Irishmen was the re-creation of a separate cultural Irish nation .... Hyde argued that the practical steps taken by the Gaelic Athletic Association to revive the national games had done more good for Ireland in five years than all the talk for sixty .... (295-96)​

Perhaps a more intuitive connection?

Sport and the Olympic tradition are important parts of Slovenia's cultural heritage. In his book Slava vojvodine Kranjske ("The Glory of the Duchy of Carniola") the renowned historian Janez Vajkard Valvasor wrote about the skiers of the Bloška planota (Bloke plain) as early as 1689. The early gymnastic clubs that formed in the mid-19th century brought sports closer to people and made a significant contribution to shaping Slovenian national consciousness. (Republic of Slovenia

Or something a little more contemporary?

Words can never describe how grateful we are because our great heroes the Iraqi national soccer team made a miracle by winning Asia Championship ....

.... The most important thing our national team did is giving you an important lesson about the most important subject in the school of life. The lesson was (how to be A Real Iraqi). They worked together. We didn’t have 11 players in the field, we had only one player but with 11 bodies. This great player fought like a real lion and like real eagle. He controlled the ground and the sky and captured happiness in spite of his wounds. It was hard job but the Iraqi brave knight accomplished the mission successfully because this knight carries deep in his pure heart the tears of all the widows and all the orphans, the grief of all the old men and more than that, this honest knight carries the hopes of all the honest real Iraqis ....
(Anonymous via McClatchy)​

Or something perhaps a bit more American?

.... Historians argue over the question of how deeply baseball affected social mobility in America, but there is little doubt that many young men used it to climb to financial success as well as achieve fame. The players who made up the Red Stockings listed occupations—jeweler, clerk, hatter, bookkeeper—that indicated working-class or lower-middle-class status. Professional baseball gave these men an opportunity to earn incomes far beyond those of their peers. Baseball was becoming a form of male identity and a status symbol for those who could play the game ....

.... In 1874, in an attempt to make a financial killing, Wright and Spalding hit upon the idea of touring England and showing off the new American game. The tour interrupted the regular season and showed how greatly financial considerations now controlled baseball. Wright and Spalding were motivated by two contrary but linked ideas—nationalism and the desire to make money.
(Rossi)​

Beyond the flash and dazzle of superstars and the selfishness of ridiculous player contracts, sports are inextricably linked with human cultures. The idea is that athletes are an example of what the human body can do. Most of us are impressed when we see the amputee running on prosthetics, but what about when the able-bodied are using cybernetic enhancements? Work with me here: There was a video game back in the 1990s called Cyberball. It was rather entertaining; my brother and I played often. The object was, simply, to play 7 on 7 American football with robots. And it was spectacular. It would be very spectacular to watch as a real spectator sport, what with the robots smoking and burning and exploding. The precise play would be amazing. But what human connection would there be? The farther we get from the natural athlete, the less important the role of sports in the culture. Cultural heritage? Identity? Nationalism? Unity for a war-torn nation? These aspects bear certain human value in history, and the less human the sports--the less accessible they are to humans in their natural state--the less the human value.

It is, to me, a shame that the national identity fostered by American baseball is its commercial value. Only two decades ago, baseball was taught to children as a model of fair play, of integrity, of the value of hard work and cooperation. I won't blame it on Michael Jordan, but rather on all the wanna-bes that demanded the same respect even though their talent wasn't quite the same. I'll blame it on the fans who wanted to pretend that the differences between Jordan and the next superstar were irrelevant. On the agents who negotiated ridiculous contracts. On the fans who kept paying out for it all. Basketball, baseball, football, and now even soccer are selling out their community foundations for revenue. It's a tragedy.

And in the meantime, the competition becomes more and more fierce. That children will turn to steroids is inevitable, and needs not have anything to do with "role models". It has to do with the desire to be a paid athlete, and the facts of what must be done. If one's natural gifts aren't enough, what's wrong with a little boost? What happens when the most naturally gifted are no longer worth considering unless they destroy themselves with steroids?

Competitive sports have immense human value, effect powerful cultural dynamics.

The issue of role models is irrelevant. If what children learn is that artificial means are the only route to success as an athlete, they will turn to steroids.

Why don't we design shoes for runners that have little spring mechanisms like the metal prosthetics for amputees? You can certainly run faster if pushed along by springs. Why not, when the technology is available, make bionic enhancement the standard for athletic competition? (Jamie Sommers and Steve Austin for Team USA vs. the Fembots?) At what age will we have our children's limbs amputated for bionic replacements? At what age will we tweak their central nervous systems for cybernetic interface? Or turn our children into laboratory experiments for our own pride? ("I'm so proud of Billy, winning the Nationals," said Mrs Johnson. "Having his genes twiddled in utero was really worth it!" Her husband remarked, "It makes my heart swell with pride to know he is the produce of my loins.")

What's the point of giving a damn about sports at all, then?
____________________

Notes:

McCartney, Donal. "From Parnell to Pearse: 1891-1921". The Course of Irish History. Ed. T.W. Moody and F.X. Martin Boulder: Roberts Rinehart, 1995

Republic of Slovenia. "Sports and the Olympic Tradition". Ljubljana: Govt. Communication Office, 1995. See http://www.ukom.gov.si/eng/slovenia/background-information/olympic-tradition/

Anonymous. "Did You Learn the Lesson?" McClatchy Newspapers, 2007. See http://www.nationalpastime.com/the_national_game.html

Rossi, John. "Excerpt from Chapter 1". The National Game - Baseball and American Culture. Chicago: Ivan R. Dee, 2000. See http://www.nationalpastime.com/the_national_game.html
 
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