Whatever happened to freedom of choice?

[Vengeful Rebel]

Reference

articles.nydailynews.com/2011-03-16/news/29172473_1_biology-teacher-sexual-consent-student

You know, all I ever hear in cases like these is that the "boy" was "victimized" NEVER do I hear "The detectives asked the student why he didn't just say 'No' and walk away"

Ok, this is flat out retarded. You expect me to believe that 17 year old males are not aware of pregnancy origins, STDs or "emotions" as so called "experts" put it. I'm sure the same "experts" would have the justice system believe teenage male students don't know about pregnancy or STDs when there's a freaking used condom found at the scene where the sex took place.

I would also imagine these are the same "medical" experts or legal "experts" who are so severely uneducated that they don't even know what the Tanner scale is, or the average age that puberty begins in human males.

I don't think the people out there who call this "molestation" feel that these "boys" don't understand the nature and ramifications of having sex... but rather just desire nothing other than control.

I'm in my 20's now... but if I were 17, and one of my female teachers started talking dirty to me; I'd ask her what the hell she was doing if I didn't like her. If, after ignoring my rejection, she proceeded to put her hand on my crouch; I would pull my arm back, and strike her in the mouth with my first so hard that she would lose some teeth. Am I to understand that high school football players aren't capable of physically defending themselves from a 5' 1" woman who weighs 120 pounds and is making sexual advances on them?

Why is it most of these "crimes" ever come to light? Because parents find their sons crying in their bedrooms over "sexual abuse" ? Or because the student brags to his male classmates that he's banging the math teacher?

Ultra hot blonde Miss McCown asks all female students to leave her 12th grade class and wait in the hall for 5 minutes as part of a science experiment. Once all the girls are gone, she asks all remaining students (guys only) how many of them would like to meet her one evening for some "extra credit" activities.

I would bet every single last penny in my bank account that 90% of the guys whose parents aren't religious fanatics would raise their hands faster than Billy the Kid could draw a revolver.

I have no doubt that the "experts" will be screaming at the top of their lungs "17 year boys are too psychologically underdeveloped for sex!!" Right... psychologist whose foundation for beliefs came primarily from one Sigmund Freud - the same "genius" whose Oedipus theories state that it is perfectly healthy for 4 year old kids to want screw their parents brains out...

Most of these female teachers are sitting in jail right now... accused of being sexual predators.

 

[Asguard]

And you can bet that a lot of female students willing have sex with the male teachers accused of raping them, further more I'm dam sure they were willing paticipants in sex with there bf's who were latter convicted of Stat rape.

 

[Tiassa]

Really? You're going there?

You know, all I ever hear in cases like these is that the "boy" was "victimized" NEVER do I hear "The detectives asked the student why he didn't just say 'No' and walk away"

Seriously, how are we supposed to take it that someone is so upset that adults can't have sex with minors?

I have no doubt that the "experts" will be screaming at the top of their lungs "17 year boys are too psychologically underdeveloped for sex!!" Right... psychologist whose foundation for beliefs came primarily from one Sigmund Freud - the same "genius" whose Oedipus theories state that it is perfectly healthy for 4 year old kids to want screw their parents brains out...

Sulk all you want, but work on that joke some before you try it on amateur night. It's one of those jokes that probably works if people only have a passing acquaintance with the fact that someone named Sigmund Freud ever existed.

Account for object relations and then deal with the simple fact that at some point, for the purposes of the law, one must necessarily draw a line.

In 1875°, you could get on a little girl when she was ten years old, and I'm certain there was someone who pled, "Nine and a half, it's close enough. She's mature for her age!"

I mean, come on, in this case, a thirty-eight year-old teacher was caught giving beer to and having sexual contact with a minor. And she was charged with a misdemeanor: unlawful transaction with a minor. And that is most likely the beer, as the age of consent in Kentucky is sixteen.

Carrie Shafer, a teacher at DuPont Manual High School in Louisville, was found by police Friday night inside a car and sharing beer with a 17-year-old student.

The 38-year-old and the teen also were partially undressed, police said. Evidence of contraceptive use was visible near the vehicle ....

.... Shafer, who taught anatomy and physiology, was cited with a misdemeanor for unlawful transaction with a minor.

Sexual consent in Kentucky is 16 and at the time of the incident police were not aware she was a teacher

(Sheridan)

• • •​

530.070 Unlawful transaction with minor in the third degree. (1) A person is guilty of unlawful transaction with a minor in the third degree when: (a) Acting other than as a retail licensee, he knowingly sells, gives, purchases or procures any alcoholic or malt beverage in any form to or for a minor. The defendant may prove in exculpation that the sale was induced by the use of false, fraudulent, or altered identification papers or other documents and that the appearance and character of the purchaser were such that his age could not have been ascertained by any other means and that the purchaser's appearance and character indicated strongly that he was of legal age to purchase alcoholic beverages. This subsection does not apply to a parent or guardian of the minor; (b) He knowingly induces, assists, or causes a minor to engage in any other criminal activity; (c) He knowingly induces, assists or causes a minor to become a habitual truant; or (d) He persistently and knowingly induces, assists or causes a minor to disobey his parent or guardian. (2) Unlawful transaction with a minor in the third degree is a Class A misdemeanor.

(Justia)​

So ... you staked yourself complaining about the injustice of it being illegal to have sex with minors because a teacher in Kentucky got busted for giving a beer to a seventeen year-old?
____________________

Notes:

° 1875 — See Spooner, "Vices Are Not Crimes"

Works Cited:

Spooner, Lysander. "Vices Are Not Crimes: A Vindication of Moral Liberty". 1875. LysanderSpooner.org. April 12, 2011. http://lysanderspooner.org/node/46

Sheridan, Michael. "Biology teacher Carrie Shafer caught partially nude with 17-year-old student in Kentucky: police". New York Daily News. March 16, 2011. Articles.NYDailyNews.com. April 12, 2011. http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-03-16/news/29172473_1_biology-teacher-sexual-consent-student

Justia. 2006 Kentucky Code. 2006. Justia.com. April 12, 2011. http://law.justia.com/codes/kentucky/2006/

 

[Skeptical]

This is a result of politically correct, gender equality gone stupid.

The fact is that, if a mature male seduces a young gal, then drops her, as he must, she will be harmed. She might end up pregnant, and only a tiny minority of gals will not be emotionally scarred.

If a mature female seduces a young guy, whether she drops him or not, he will come out of the experience feeling great! He will brag to his friends, and gain status. He will have had a wonderful time. He will have learned. His self esteem will have gone through the roof. Only a small minority of males will not benefit from this experience.

The law that treats both genders equally in this matter is just plain Stoooo-oopid!

 

[Asguard]

This is a result of politically correct, gender equality gone stupid.

The fact is that, if a mature male seduces a young gal, then drops her, as he must, she will be harmed. She might end up pregnant, and only a tiny minority of gals will not be emotionally scarred.

If a mature female seduces a young guy, whether she drops him or not, he will come out of the experience feeling great! He will brag to his friends, and gain status. He will have had a wonderful time. He will have learned. His self esteem will have gone through the roof. Only a small minority of males will not benefit from this experience.

The law that treats both genders equally in this matter is just plain Stoooo-oopid!

What a joke, we are back to the women
Are sexual victims not sexual people. I must quote this in my thread on sexual repression.

Oh and just out of intrest, do you think a 16 or 17 year old FATHER forced to pay child surport to a 35 year old who used him as a sperm donor isn't harmed?

 

[Tiassa]

Really? Over a beer?

Oh and just out of intrest, do you think a 16 or 17 year old FATHER forced to pay child surport to a 35 year old who used him as a sperm donor isn't harmed?

Well, just how often does that happen?

Or, to the other, we come to this because some idiot woman in Kentucky got cited for giving a seventeen year-old boy a beer?

 

[Asguard]

I've herd as many cases like that as male teachers sleeping with female students. If someone sleeps with a 14-15 Yyear old of either gender they deserve jail. If someone in autority like a teacher uses there position to get sex they also deserve jail (age of consent is 16 in Australia or within 2 years

 

[Bells]

I've herd as many cases like that as male teachers sleeping with female students.

Really?

I work for the Child Support Agency and have yet to see a single one...

And I've seen some doozy's.

 

[Asguard]

Not Australian cases bells, one in paticular I remember the teacher gave birth in prison and the father wanted to marry her when she got out.

So anyway bells, you that sex with an underaged boy should be handled different from a girl? Do YOU think your a victim sexually or do you chose to have sex because you enjoy it?

 

[Tiassa]

Mary ... Kay ... Letourneau

... one in paticular I remember the teacher gave birth in prison and the father wanted to marry her when she got out.

Mary Kay Letourneau.

But I still don't see how that connects to teenage boys obliged to pay child support to mid-thirties, cradle-robbing sluts. Nor do I really get what any of this has to do with a woman busted for giving a teenager a beer in Kentucky.

The thing that gets me about this is, fine, I get it, people want to talk about banging kids, or how men are the real victims, or the double standards of sex in American society. But she was charged for giving the kid a beer.

She was charged with a misdemeanor, which is under 530.070. If it was for the sex, it would have been a Class C felony under 530.064.

It was about a freakin' beer.

And from that, I see a variation on the argument that it's not rape if they don't fight back hard enough; I see an ill-developed Freud joke; I see a lament about male teachers charged with statutory rape after banging willing, underage girls; I see a note on political correctness combined with a reiteration of a classic sexual double-standard; I see a lament about child support; I see a bit about Mary Kay Letourneau, for heaven's sake. Wow. I mean, okay, so some people have some issues with how society looks at sex, but is this really the time to sound off? Over a beer?

Really?
____________________

Notes:

Clement, Bethany Jean. "This Is So Nutty, I Can't Even Write a Headline". Slog. May 21, 2009. Slog.TheStranger.com. April 12, 2011. http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/05/21/this-is-so-nutty-i-cant-even-write-a-headline

—————. "Sexy Saturday: Mary Kay Letourneau and Vili Fualaau at Dante's". LineOut. July 9, 2009. LineOut.TheStranger.com. April 12, 2011. http://lineout.thestranger.com/line...ary-kay-letourneau-and-vili-fualaau-at-dantes

KOMO News. "Mary K. Letourneau hosts 'Hot Teacher' night". May 21, 2009. KOMOnews.com. April 12, 2011. http://www.komonews.com/news/local/45731497.html

 

[Bells]

Not Australian cases bells, one in paticular I remember the teacher gave birth in prison and the father wanted to marry her when she got out.

Which has what to do with child support?

So anyway bells, you that sex with an underaged boy should be handled different from a girl?

Where exactly have I given any indication that I believed or thought this should be the case?

Do YOU think your a victim sexually or do you chose to have sex because you enjoy it?

No, I think if you have sex with a minor, you don't deserve sympathy and belong in jail.

 

[Vengeful Rebel]

Tiassa, you seem to be obsessed with beer and misdemeanor portions of the link. This is a developing story. Did you not read the lower half of the article that states:

"Shafer, who resigned Sunday, could face a felony charge because of her role as an educator.

A new law in Kentucky makes it illegal for a person in "a position of authority or special trust" to engage in sexual activity with someone under 18, Louisville's Courier-Journal reported."

 

[Cifo]

Schools teach teenagers that teenage sex is okay and give them condoms, and then we're supposed to be surprised to see this sort of behavior? Please! The Big List.

 

[Stryder]

In the UK at least, there is ongoing vetting to make sure that school tutors are not sexual predators, this isn't of course suggesting that such people can't get through the vetting in fact there have been previous occurrences where previously convicted paedophiles take up teacher jobs which obviously causes a stir.

Most teachers know that it's not just their job (Which if gone can be replace by another) on the line but their profession (Blacklisted from Teaching) and the majority of them would never consider attempting to coerce one of their students into such a situation.

One thing the BBC pointed out about news in general, is you will find that a majority of news articles are "special" in some way. For instance you don't get much of a report on the number of deaths that occur on the road, it's just a tragedy. However "Man mowed over by speeding pooch" (A freak accident involving a runaway car and with a dog inside) will make the headlines. This is down to that headline having an avid following, people will be twittering on the subject and spreading the news by Wildfire, generating popularity for the media outlet.

Of course this points to journalism being more commercialism than attempting to champion the people and right wrongs.

In the case of the article presented, that's what it is about. The majority of tutors don't do it, but one might have an in turn it causes this vast rift of concern amongst parents and the general public, what better way to sell a rag?

 

[phlogistician]

If, after ignoring my rejection, she proceeded to put her hand on my crouch; I would pull my arm back, and strike her in the mouth with my first so hard that she would lose some teeth.

And then she would say you punched her while sexually molesting her, and you'd go to jail.

Grow up, and learn to think before acting.

 

[Skeptical]

It is me who thinks the two genders need to be treated differently.

The reason is simple. Both the attitude to sex and the consequences of sex are very different if you compare male and female. A young gal - say 15 years - who has sex with an older man, whether teacher or not, will suffer potential consequences, including possible pregnancy, and including emotional trauma.

A young guy of the same age, who has sex with an older woman, will most likely feel proud of himself. He cannot get pregnant. When the inevitable end to the sexual relationship comes, he will most likely leave with no emotional harm at all.

Males and females are sexually different. Anyone who argues with this simple point is living in Lalaland. Males treat sex much more casually, though they seek it much more intensely. Females are more reluctant, but get far more emotionally involved with sexual partners. They also get pregnant.

Male and female should not be treated the same. The older male who seduces a young gal is committing a much worse crime than the older woman who seduces a young guy.

 

[Cifo]

A strong point about teacher-student sex is that the teacher is in a position of trust and authority, the same as officers and enlisted personnel in the armed forces, or guards and prisoners in jails, etc. Sex acts between them are, by definition, aggravated because their superior/subordinate relationship reduces the will of the subordinate person, thus technically not allowing them the means to consent. For example, if a female prison guard willingly has sex with a male prisoner, she is guilty of statutory rape even though the prisoner was extremely willing, initiated the relationship, etc.

 

[Tiassa]

I did, in fact, miss it, and you're still missing the point

This is a developing story. Did you not read the lower half of the article that states ....

Actually, I did miss it as a result of the size of the advert breaking the article.

However, what that leaves you complaining about is that someone could be charged for abusing authority in having sex with a minor.

You're still way off course in complaining that adults can't have sex with minors. In Kentucky, they can, unless they hold a position of trust and authority that might be abused in order to achieve that congress (Alter).

At any rate, on March 31, Carrie Shafer's attorney entered on her behalf a plea of not guilty in re: misdemeanor unlawful transaction with a minor.

Meanwhile, if you are a teacher who intends to drink and have sexual contact with one of your students, don't do it in a car, in a public park patrolled by police, while sitting in a handicapped parking space. If they were in Washington state, she'd be charged with driving under the influence, just for good measure.

As it is, you can expect that she will skate on the potential felony charge unless the Crimes Against Children Unit can win the cooperation of the boy. They haven't charged her with a sex crime yet; they probably aren't going to. It's leverage. If you weren't so obsessed with adults having sex with minors, perhaps you might have figured out what the facts are.

See KRS 532.045 for definitions of special trust; KRS 510.110 for the applicable sexual abuse in the first degree statute, especially subsection (1)(d); KRS 532.020 for sentencing schedule of a class D felony.

This isn't about anything in your sex-fantasy rant of a topic post; it's about the fact that she was a public school teacher, and violated a law (510.110(1)(d)) that specifically applies to teachers and other persons in positions of authority and trust.
____________________

Notes:

Alter, Marissa. "Former Teacher Accused In Student-Sex Incident Arraigned". WKLY. March 31, 2011. WKLY.com. April 12, 2011. Former Teacher Accused In Student-Sex Incident Arraigned

Kentucky Legislature. Kentucky Revised Statutes. March 18, 2011. LRC.KY.gov. April 12, 2011. http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/titles.htm

 

[Trippy]

Meanwhile, if you are a teacher who intends to drink and have sexual contact with one of your students, don't do it in a car, in a public park patrolled by police, while sitting in a handicapped parking space. If they were in Washington state, she'd be charged with driving under the influence, just for good measure.

Quite.

When I went through Teachers Training College here in New Zealand (several years ago now) we were specifically, and explicitly warned - both male, and female teachers, about putting ourselves in 'at risk' situations such as this. This included things like making sure another teacher was in earshot when you detained a student after a class (leave the room door open, and make sure a colleague is in the hallway or classroom).

This wasn't about PC gone mad or anything like that, it was about protecting yourself, purely and simply. It wasn't even about male teachers protecting themselves against female students, it was about teachers protecting themselves from students, period. Because false accusations happen, and if you're careful, you can prove they're false, otherwise you risk your job and your career.

As Nigel Latta says.

...The thing to remember about Teenagers, is that they're not quite right in the head...

 

[Vengeful Rebel]

And then she would say you punched her while sexually molesting her, and you'd go to jail.

Grow up, and learn to think before acting.

A. That's not the point of the post, and apparently you aren't smart enough to realize it as being an example.

B. You can't prove how any teacher would react in a situation like that.

C. We'll be sure to let every woman on this planet (teacher or otherwise) know that they are welcome to grab your genitals without fear of being retaliated against by a spineless coward who is unwilling to defend his or herself.