What was the fight between God and Satan about?

Greatest I am

Greatest I am

Valued Senior Member
What was the fight between God and Satan about?

Let us remember that no one was there to record anything and we have to somehow explain why God put Satan in Eden. Everything said is thus speculation only, --- be it from me or from you.

I think the disagreement between God and Satan was because Satan did not want to meet up with God in Eden where he was told to insure that A & E sin, --- so that God could murder Jesus and Adam and Eve as he had planned to do even before the first sin.

God wanted to self-aggrandise himself and Satan thought that that was going too far, and saw his placement in Eden by God as a horrible sin on God's part.

Satan did not want to be seen helping God do such a vile thing to A & E or have the world think of him as evil as God, --- via his collusion with God in murder.

Satan had his pride and morals to think of and did not want God to murder Jesus and Adam and Eve just for God’s own overinflated pride.

Rev 13; 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Note that God had decided to have Jesus murdered before the foundation of the earth and even the potential for sin.

Quite insane and immoral that, --- if any of my speculation is true.

Do you have a better speculation?

Is Satan showing a better morals position than God, --- in not wanting to tempt A & E, --- and set up Jesus to be sacrificed?

There is a hymn called Exsultet that calls Adam’s sin necessary to God’s plan and a happy fault that it happened.

Was Adams sin a necessary and a happy fault as the Exsultet hymn says?

Regards
DL
 
Greatest I am said:
What was the fight between God and Satan about?

Let us remember that no one was there to record anything and we have to somehow explain why God put Satan in Eden. Everything said is thus speculation only, --- be it from me or from you.

I think the disagreement between God and Satan was because Satan did not want to meet up with God in Eden where he was told to insure that A & E sin, --- so that God could murder Jesus and Adam and Eve as he had planned to do even before the first sin.

God wanted to self-aggrandise himself and Satan thought that that was going too far, and saw his placement in Eden by God as a horrible sin on God's part.

Satan did not want to be seen helping God do such a vile thing to A & E or have the world think of him as evil as God, --- via his collusion with God in murder.

Satan had his pride and morals to think of and did not want God to murder Jesus and Adam and Eve just for God’s own overinflated pride.

Rev 13; 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Note that God had decided to have Jesus murdered before the foundation of the earth and even the potential for sin.

Quite insane and immoral that, --- if any of my speculation is true.

Do you have a better speculation?

Is Satan showing a better morals position than God, --- in not wanting to tempt A & E, --- and set up Jesus to be sacrificed?

There is a hymn called Exsultet that calls Adam’s sin necessary to God’s plan and a happy fault that it happened.

Was Adams sin a necessary and a happy fault as the Exsultet hymn says?

Regards
DL
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I can not tell you I was not there . Why don't you ask your father "Satan "
 
Greatest I am said:
Do you have a better speculation? ...
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Certainly. Over this goddess:
img_aphrodite.jpg
220px-NAMA_Aphrodite_Syracuse.jpg
410px-Sandro_Botticelli_-_La_nascita_di_Venere_-_Google_Art_Project_-_edited.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphrodite said:
Aphrodite is consistently portrayed, in every image and story, as having had no childhood, and instead being born as a nubile, infinitely desirable adult. She is often depicted nude. ... her birth was the consequence of a castration: Cronus severed Uranus' genitals and threw them behind him into the sea. The foam from his genitals gave rise to Aphrodite (hence her name, meaning "foam-arisen"), while the Erinyes (furies), and the Meliae emerged from the drops of his blood.[18] ... as white foam arose from the immortal flesh; with it a girl grew." The girl, Aphrodite, floated ashore on a scallop shell. This iconic representation of Aphrodite as a mature "Venus rising from the sea."

The gods and goddesses, as well as various mortals, were invited to the marriage of Peleus and Thetis (the eventual parents of Achilles). Only the goddess Eris (Discord) was not invited, but she arrived with a golden apple inscribed with the word kallistēi ("to the fairest one"), which she threw among the goddesses. Aphrodite, Hera, and Athena all claimed to be the fairest, and thus the rightful owner of the apple.

The goddesses chose to place the matter before Zeus, who, not wanting to favor one of the goddesses, put the choice into the hands of Paris. ... Paris could not decide, as all three were ideally beautiful, so the goddesses resorted to bribes.

Hera tried to bribe Paris with control over all Asia and Europe, while Athena offered wisdom, fame, and glory in battle, and Aphrodite offered the most beautiful mortal woman in the world as a wife, and he accordingly chose her. This woman was Helen, who was, unfortunately for Paris, already married to King Menelaus of Sparta. ... Aphrodite is one of a few characters in the Odyssey whose actions are a major contributing cause of the Trojan War: she offers Helen of Troy to Paris, and as the goddess of desire, she is responsible for Paris becoming so inflamed with desire for Helen at first sight that he is moved to abduct her. ...{taking her back home to Troy}
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Greek theology is quite complex. As I recall Zeus is part of the fourth generation and preceeds the God of the Jews by at least 5000 years. Eris, the great trouble and discord maker, probably created their god and Satin too so there would be more discord and troubles in the world. Where else could Satin come from? An all knowing, god certainly would not have created him.
 
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They were arguing over the existence of Skeptics. All of their acquaintances naturally were believers, so the notion was quite absurd.
 
Satan,in the very beginning was called Lucifer or the giver of light. He begins very positive shedding light; understanding. Next, he evolves into Satan who, in Eden becomes associated with knowledge/law of good and evil. Light of Lucifer implies understanding, reason, explanations leading to practical utility, while law is more dogmatic and does not have to explain itself except via fear.

Satan is continues to evolve into the early Bible, but he is still the left hand man of God, as reflected in the book of Job. Satan has God's ear and is telling God how to deal with Job. This book of the bible documents the beginning of a parting of their ways. The light of Satan/Lucifer with respect to Job, gets dark and spiteful, which seems to be an artifact of law and self righteousness. Job obeys the law and is righteous but that is not enough for Satan, who is jealous of his happy attitude. Satan prefers Job be miserable. God starts to separate when he realize the council of Satan is no longer progressive.

The appearance of Jesus, fore-fills the law and therefore does away with the law; Satan's tree. This makes the old Satan obsolete. He has to reinvent himself and does so by polarizing himself as the opposite of Jesus. Instead of complementary he become rebellious and in doing so, is thrown from heaven. Satan then becomes the Devil and is given the realm of the hell to rule; earthy.
 
arauca said:
I can not tell you I was not there . Why don't you ask your father "Satan "
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Good idea. I asked God but he started lying to me. so I tuned him out. He is after all the father of lies. Right?

Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
1Kings 22:23

Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
2 Chron 18:22

Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
Jer 4:10

O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. Jer 20:7

And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
Ezekiel 14:9

For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.
Thessalonians 2:11

To me, God’s worse lie was to Adam and Eve. He told them they could eat of the tree of life and then reneged and in a real sense murdered them by denying them a remedy.

Regards
DL
 
Greatest I am said:
Good idea. I asked God but he started lying to me. so I tuned him out. He is after all the father of lies. Right?

Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
1Kings 22:23

Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
2 Chron 18:22

Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
Jer 4:10

O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. Jer 20:7

And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
Ezekiel 14:9

For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.
Thessalonians 2:11

To me, God’s worse lie was to Adam and Eve. He told them they could eat of the tree of life and then reneged and in a real sense murdered them by denying them a remedy.

Regards
DL
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You can find many strange things in the Old Testament - which is where the above is from. And the first five books of it, form the basis of Judaism.

You have to keep and bear in mind that they are the writings of men, up to four thousand years ago, in their endevours to interpret the universe - the divine.

Can you imagine how vastly different their mind set was to ours ?

If not, try this quick exersise - think about how humans 3,000 - 4,000 years hence will think about OUR present day mindset, and how many flaws they will then surely know about our science, beliefs, morals, practices, etc. What goes round ..
 
No argument.
Just remember that in evolution time and reality, we are basically what we had 5,000 years ago.

It is quite logical though that if you are to have everything emanating from the one God then you are not going to create a co-creator to create all the crap that the goody two shoes God does not want to take credit for creating.

Logic does not change over time.

Regards
DL
 
Greatest I am said:
No argument.
Just remember that in evolution time and reality, we are basically what we had 5,000 years ago.

It is quite logical though that if you are to have everything emanating from the one God then you are not going to create a co-creator to create all the crap that the goody two shoes God does not want to take credit for creating.

Logic does not change over time.

Regards
DL
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Can't argue much with that. Just one thing, logic does change sometimes.

It was 'logic' during the Inquisitions that the accused be given to hold a red hot metal bar. If it left severe burn marks in the accused's palms, he / she was guilty - and off to be hung, drawn and quartered. If it left no burn marks, he was, logically, innocent. See ?

I reckon the problems in this world are not atheism or theism. It is meglomaniacs manipulating these for their meglomanic purposes.
 
By definition God is a perfect moral being, he wouldn't murder Jesus, or man.
 
Lakon said:
Can't argue much with that. Just one thing, logic does change sometimes.

It was 'logic' during the Inquisitions that the accused be given to hold a red hot metal bar. If it left severe burn marks in the accused's palms, he / she was guilty - and off to be hung, drawn and quartered. If it left no burn marks, he was, logically, innocent. See ?

I reckon the problems in this world are not atheism or theism. It is meglomaniacs manipulating these for their meglomanic purposes.
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They had the same twisted logic, not logic, with witches and water.
Weigh them down and if they float and live then she is a witch and must die. If she does not float and drowns then she was not a witch. How nice to know for those who have to bury her. And people let the church do such things.

Regards
DL
 
Your kidding. Right?

[video=youtube;dx7irFN2gdI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI[/video]

Regards
DL
 
wegs said:
That video is very moving, Greater.
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Only to those of good heart. Christians are not moved by it al all.

They can somehow justify God torturing a baby for 6 days before finally killing it,---- because God was angry with Kind David.

Now that is a good God. Not.

Regards
DL
 
Greatest I am said:
Only to those of good heart. Christians are not moved by it al all.

They can somehow justify God torturing a baby for 6 days before finally killing it,---- because God was angry with Kind David.

Now that is a good God. Not.

Regards
DL
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I think that for many, religion is only meaningful through ‘reverential fear.’ In various Christian denominations, that fear component is a very powerful motivator, and the trouble with that thinking (in addition to the obvious), is that many confuse fear with love. That God is somehow a Divine vindicator because he loves us. This widespread fallacy of faith/logic is what has caused many to commit heinous acts against one another, ‘’in the name of God.’’ Those same people will justify to themselves and others that their acts of hatred are really…acts of love. It’s a somewhat nebulous, yet very dangerous construct, and one that is not confined to Christianity.
 
wegs said:
I think that for many, religion is only meaningful through ‘reverential fear.’ In various Christian denominations, that fear component is a very powerful motivator, and the trouble with that thinking (in addition to the obvious), is that many confuse fear with love. That God is somehow a Divine vindicator because he loves us. This widespread fallacy of faith/logic is what has caused many to commit heinous acts against one another, ‘’in the name of God.’’ Those same people will justify to themselves and others that their acts of hatred are really…acts of love. It’s a somewhat nebulous, yet very dangerous construct, and one that is not confined to Christianity.
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When you get swinging, you do it right. There is your eloquence I tried to capitalize on in the O Ps I have invited you to do.

That is why the church invented hell and guilt. To slave their sheep to them and quell any arguments, discussions or inquiry of their poor theology.

Regards
DL
 
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