What percentage of "athiesm" is genetic?

M

Michael

歌舞伎
Valued Senior Member
I wonder how much of our beliefs are based purely on genetics? I'm inclined to say >95%.

I like to think about this extremely EXTREMELY shy girl I know. She hates being in the company of other people (except her mom, even her dad makes her a little uncomfortable - no doubt I do as well). Anyway, one day she tried taking an antidepressant for her PMDD and suddenly she was bubbly and talkative and "normal"... unfortunately the other side effects were too much (I say unfortunately but, meh, maybe not for her).

We know that all of our personality is based on chemical reactions whose concentrations are regulated by our genes.

So, I wonder, how much of "atheism" is purely genetic?
 
I wouldn't say atheism, per se. Atheists have their own dogma and superstitions [e.g. the UFOlogists].
 
I wouldn't say ALL of our personality is genetic, but certainly genetic abnormalities like autism or personality disorders would effect it. Genes may provide a predisposition to certain traits, but it's hard to quantify into specifics like atheism or religiosity. There can be sceptical religious people and atheists full of belief in something else.
 
SAM said:
Atheists have their own dogma and superstitions [e.g. the UFOlogists].
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Most of the UFO cranks are theists from strongly theistic communities, at least in the US.

The problem with attempting to identify a genetic propensity for atheism starts with identifying atheists and theists from similar genetic backgrounds. Good luck with that. For example: are the Chinese and Navajo and Piraha and Inuit traditionalists all atheists, or only the ones familiar with Abrahamic religion and philosophy who say they are?

I wonder how much of our beliefs are based purely on genetics? I'm inclined to say >95%.
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That is unlikely, based on the commonly observed large scale cultural conversions of entire genetic groups to this or that belief arrangement. Culture (specific belief) changes much faster than genetics.
 
Michael said:
I wonder how much of our beliefs are based purely on genetics? I'm inclined to say >95%.
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No, I don’t believe it can be anywhere near that figure. Clearly peoples’ beliefs are significantly governed by their upbringing. I believe parental influences followed later by peer influences are what dictate opinions and beliefs for the majority of people. I’ll bet there are monozygotic twin studies where the twins have been raised separately that show that beliefs are predominantly learned behaviours.

I’m not saying there isn’t a genetic component, but I’d be surprised if it was more than 50:50 at most.


Michael said:
We know that all of our personality is based on chemical reactions whose concentrations are regulated by our genes.
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No. I think you’re extrapolating the influence of genes too far. It could be argued that every trait is 100% genetically determined by virtue of the fact that our genes keep us alive. Without our genes we don’t exist.

But this is not a useful line of reasoning because clearly nurture does influence traits. Practically speaking we say that a trait has a genetic component if we can correlate it to specific lineages and/or to a specific allele(s). This certainly cannot be done for the incredibly subjective trait of “personality”.
 
We all agree that during neural development, the neurogenesis, migration, pattern development, morphology and finally axon outgrowth and synapse formation - all of this is TIGHTLY regulated by genes. Every little bit of it.

So the neural architecture is derived purely form genes.

Some people, for whatever reason, do not develop a somatosensory cortex that recognizes a particular limb - they then have a overriding desire to cut it off. In the past this was always considered a sexual fetish. We now no that know it's not, they actually do not have a sensorysomatic map of that limb and so it's as if it's "foreign" thing attached to their body. They ALWAYS report feeling so much better after having their limb amputated.

It should be noted that the sensory map is developed before birth.

We can see the direct connection with thought and genetic here, in this example.

What's different with atheism? Where do we draw the line? How much of our thoughts, that make up "us", arise purely from neuralarchitecture?

I think a great deal of it.

Even small damges to tiny peaces of brain can have HUGE changes in personality. From being devout to pure atheist or atheists to being devout.


Certain complex ideas may not be possible for some brains to contemplate. I for one can not fathom some aspects of high-level mathematics (and I had 4 years of uni calculus).


OK, one more analogy.
How much is our perception of color genetic?
Can a person without cones ever mentally grasp the concept of color?
Could atheism/theism be very very similar?

Many people say they KNEW there was a god when they were children, even though they were raised in an atheist environment. Likewise, I knew there wasn't one and I grew up in a Christian environment.
 
Hercules Rockefeller said:
No, I don’t believe it can be anywhere near that figure. Clearly peoples’ beliefs are significantly governed by their upbringing. I believe parental influences followed later by peer influences are what dictate opinions and beliefs for the majority of people. I’ll bet there are monozygotic twin studies where the twins have been raised separately that show that beliefs are predominantly learned behaviours.

I’m not saying there isn’t a genetic component, but I’d be surprised if it was more than 50:50 at most.




No. I think you’re extrapolating the influence of genes too far. It could be argued that every trait is 100% genetically determined by virtue of the fact that our genes keep us alive. Without our genes we don’t exist.

But this is not a useful line of reasoning because clearly nurture does influence traits. Practically speaking we say that a trait has a genetic component if we can correlate it to specific lineages and/or to a specific allele(s). This certainly cannot be done for the incredibly subjective trait of “personality”.
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I often wonder how much of "us" is illusion.
 
S.A.M. said:
I wouldn't say atheism, per se. Atheists have their own dogma and superstitions [e.g. the UFOlogists].
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What are you talking about SAM? Morons who believe in UFO's are no more representative of Atheists than suicide bombers are of Islam.

~String
 
Michael said:
I wonder how much of our beliefs are based purely on genetics? I'm inclined to say >95%.

I like to think about this extremely EXTREMELY shy girl I know. She hates being in the company of other people (except her mom, even her dad makes her a little uncomfortable - no doubt I do as well). Anyway, one day she tried taking an antidepressant for her PMDD and suddenly she was bubbly and talkative and "normal"... unfortunately the other side effects were too much (I say unfortunately but, meh, maybe not for her).

We know that all of our personality is based on chemical reactions whose concentrations are regulated by our genes.

So, I wonder, how much of "atheism" is purely genetic?
Click to expand...
Would that make the proclivity to determine metaphysical standpoints as characteristic of reductionist paradigms also purely genetic?
:D
 
superstring01 said:
What are you talking about SAM? Morons who believe in UFO's are no more representative of Atheists than suicide bombers are of Islam.

~String
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Have you looked at the evidence?
"…[the study] shows that traditional Christian religion greatly decreases belief in everything from the efficacy of palm readers to the usefulness of astrology. It also shows that the irreligious and the members of more liberal Protestant denominations, far from being resistant to superstition, tend to be much more likely to believe in the paranormal and in pseudoscience than evangelical Christians."

"The Gallup Organization, under contract to Baylor's Institute for Studies of Religion, asked American adults a series of questions to gauge credulity. Do dreams foretell the future? Did ancient advanced civilizations such as Atlantis exist? Can places be haunted? Is it possible to communicate with the dead? Will creatures like Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster someday be discovered by science?"

"While 31% of people who never worship expressed strong belief in these things, only 8% of people who attend a house of worship more than once a week did."

"While 36% of those belonging to the United Church of Christ, Sen. Barack Obama's former denomination, expressed strong beliefs in the paranormal, only 14% of those belonging to the Assemblies of God, Sarah Palin's former denomination, did. In fact, the more traditional and evangelical the respondent, the less likely he was to believe in, for instance, the possibility of communicating with people who are dead."
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http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB122178219865054585-lMyQjAxMDI4MjIxMDcyODAyWj.html

Of course, we need more studies before we can derive any conclusions.
 
24.56%

I think I heard that on fox news or something.

No but in all seriousness. there are too many factors involved, I don't think such a thing as "percentage of atheism " is really measurable.
 
chris4355 said:
24.56%

I think I heard that on fox news or something.

No but in all seriousness. there are too many factors involved, I don't think such a thing as "percentage of atheism " is really measurable.
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much less assignable to genetics

the-truth-about-dna-7003-1242244545-8.jpg
 
Again, it may not "feel" that we are driven by our genes but again, I think if you go back to the somatosensory situation and how this affected their personality you'll begin to realize that yes, indeed, genetic disposition probably plays a huge role in our consciousness including things like theism and atheism.

Does the environment play a role. Yes.

But, I also think genes play a bigger role than we realize.

No amount of environmental stimuli was ever going to convince this person who wanted their limb amputated that thier leg was "part of their body" because it doesn't show up on their physical sensory body map.

And no amount of convincing is going to make me think Xenu is real. It's physically impossible for me to ever think Xenu (or Gods) are real. And likewise, it's impossible for many scientologists to ever not believe in Xenu - espeacially if they were taught while they were young.

Let's think about it like this. The ability to learn a language is genetic. But, yes, you are taught a language. Once you are taught a language it's nearly impossible not to think in that language. We're wired to be like this - genetically.

I wonder, once a child is taught Xenu is real, is it impossible to ever change this (for some people)?

Again, go back to the person who wanted their leg amputated. You don't think people talked and talked and talked to this person. Jesus Christ, can't he see his fraaken leg right there on his body! But, it didn't matter, his genes never encoded that leg on there, so it's not part of "Him". Likewise, it's as much (if not more) of a waste of time to try to convince a Scientologist that Xenu isn't real.


With all of this in mind, I wonder, how much of atheism is my genetic predisposition? Was I destined to be rational? :confused:
 
Michael said:
Again, it may not "feel" that we are driven by our genes but again, I think if you go back to the somatosensory situation and how this affected their personality you'll begin to realize that yes, indeed, genetic disposition probably plays a huge role in our consciousness including things like theism and atheism.
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and also pretending one is a fireman while peeing or having coconut icecream after a fish dinner?


Let's think about it like this. The ability to learn a language is genetic. But, yes, you are taught a language. Once you are taught a language it's nearly impossible not to think in that language. We're wired to be like this - genetically.
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This paragraph makes about as much sense as scientology

I wonder, once a child is taught Xenu is real, is it impossible to ever change this (for some people)?
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If a scientologist can be seen to become a regular atheist and if an atheist can be seen to become a regular scientologist your wondering should come to an end.
Again, go back to the person who wanted their leg amputated. You don't think people talked and talked and talked to this person. Jesus Christ, can't he see his fraaken leg right there on his body! But, it didn't matter, his genes never encoded that leg on there, so it's not part of "Him". Likewise, it's as much (if not more) of a waste of time to try to convince a Scientologist that Xenu isn't real.
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If only they had the gene that makes people with weak egos grasp around desperately for simple explanations perhaps things would be different.


With all of this in mind, I wonder, how much of atheism is my genetic predisposition? Was I destined to be rational? :confused:
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of course not silly

you simply have the gene that makes you think you are rational or are possibly homosexual
 
PieAreSquared said:
you really should give this guy a jingle

http://rex.nci.nih.gov/RESEARCH/basic/biochem/hamer.htm
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from the link

Behavioral genetic studies have shown that cigarette smoking is 53% heritable


Why is it we accept color blindness is genetic, Parkinsons has a large genetic component and some forms of depression are largely genetic (we're even learning the areas of the brain affected and how so) but refuse to do so for atheism??!?!

What's the difference?
 
Michael said:
from the link

Behavioral genetic studies have shown that cigarette smoking is 53% heritable


Why is it we accept color blindness is genetic, Parkinsons has a large genetic component and some forms of depression are largely genetic (we're even learning the areas of the brain affected and how so) but refuse to do so for atheism??!?!

What's the difference?
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er ... at a rough guess, behavioral genetic studies?
 
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