what is scienentology?
- Thread starter Agent@5
- Start date
~The_Chosen~
Registered Senior Member
Sciforums.com will be sued because you mentioned it!!! 
Their basic philosophy is - Give all your money to the scientology people (in seminars for "teaching" purposes) and be happy forever with your 40,000 inner thethans, and start sending them out to participate in a cosmic war that has been going on for 40 000,000,000,000 years right here on earth and in the universe while you get brainwashed into believing even more crazy stuff and giving even more money and threatening anyone who dares to even utter the word "thetan" - wtf does it mean anyway?
LOL, it's a bunch of crap, but Tom Cruise is affliated with the Church of Scientology.
Anti-Scientology
"internet wars" LMAO!!
It's a "rich man" cult, look at Cruise and Travolta
Their basic philosophy is - Give all your money to the scientology people (in seminars for "teaching" purposes) and be happy forever with your 40,000 inner thethans, and start sending them out to participate in a cosmic war that has been going on for 40 000,000,000,000 years right here on earth and in the universe while you get brainwashed into believing even more crazy stuff and giving even more money and threatening anyone who dares to even utter the word "thetan" - wtf does it mean anyway?
LOL, it's a bunch of crap, but Tom Cruise is affliated with the Church of Scientology.
Anti-Scientology
"internet wars" LMAO!!
It's a "rich man" cult, look at Cruise and Travolta
There is really nothing to add. The site posted above explains it all. But the whole gist of it is summed up in a quote from the top-dawg himself:
If you're still interested, go read more from the site. I find it pretty funny that anyone would believe any of that hooplah, but who am I to judge people's beliefs. Perhaps, if it lasts a couple thousand years, they'll obtain a much larger following and it will be more widely accepted as a religion.
Hey, modelling agencies have thrived on the stupidity/ignorance of people for a long time: "Hey, you're beautiful! Give us money and we'll make more money for you... Now give us more money because we need to take pictures of you... Now more money because we need to print them up... Now more money to put them together in a portfolio...". But with $cientology, they take much more than just your money... well, according to the "evil, bad, naughty internet" anyways.
Another good link is here.
The site posted above explains it all. But the whole gist of it is summed up in a quote from the top-dawg himself:(Yes, I grabbed it straight from the website linked above.)
If you're still interested, go read more from the site. I find it pretty funny that anyone would believe any of that hooplah, but who am I to judge people's beliefs. Perhaps, if it lasts a couple thousand years, they'll obtain a much larger following and it will be more widely accepted as a religion.
Hey, modelling agencies have thrived on the stupidity/ignorance of people for a long time: "Hey, you're beautiful! Give us money and we'll make more money for you... Now give us more money because we need to take pictures of you... Now more money because we need to print them up... Now more money to put them together in a portfolio...". But with $cientology, they take much more than just your money... well, according to the "evil, bad, naughty internet" anyways.
Another good link is here.
Agent,
I have a tendency to try things regardless of what others say, mainly because I don’t trust too many people and I prefer to obtain my information first hand if I can.
I investigated The Church of Scientology (COS) in early 2000. This was at one of their churches here in San Jose. I have since been expelled of course.
All the people I met who were involved were very pleasant and seemed quite convinced and dedicated to their beliefs. The atmosphere was very family-oriented and I noticed many children during my visits that lasted several months.
The basic idea is that when people have a bad experience or engage in abnormal or ‘bad’ activities then the effect is a form of stress that is impinged on the brain; they call these engrams. The theory is that if you leave these engrams in place they will tend to play on your mind and limit your effectiveness to function in an optimum manner. For some people many bad experiences of excessive deviant behavior can take a considerable toll on the personality and generate considerable inhibitions or further abnormal behavior. As a fundamental idea I believe this position to be quite sound.
The COS approach is to make you face these engrams and remove them. The process is called auditing and largely involves you telling someone your deepest and darkest inner secrets, over and over again. By repeatedly exploring the issues that have troubled you the result is that the underlying issue becomes less and less significant in your mind, until it no longer gives you any trouble. I hope you can see how having to drag to the surface all your dark deep secrets can be significantly traumatic. If you are open about the process and are prepared to trust the auditor then I am convinced that the process can be remarkably effective. By facing the issues that may have plagued you for a great part of your life you are able to experience a freedom you may not be able to experience otherwise.
The downside of course is that a course of something like 10 auditing sessions can run to about $5000. Of course you can overcome that by training to become an auditor and sharing auditing sessions with other auditors, i.e. you audit each other for free. But the training to reach that point can cost you $100Ks.
For those who can’t quite grasp the fundamental ideas or fully commit then the perception is that the whole approach is just an incredible rip-off.
One thing I did notice was a deep conviction against drugs of all types and an emphasis on truly healthy living. The Church in San Jose had an area set aside for drug rehabilitation and a great deal of information about overcoming drug addiction etc.
The Church was also used as the voting station in the 2000 elections.
I took some basic courses that didn’t cost too much, and I did sign up for the $5000 course. I then changed my mind and cancelled, and for that I was expelled.
In terms of basic psychology I think they have some good ideas, but wrapping it up into a religion is quite foolish. L Ron Hubbard had a wonderful imagination and the idea of OTs (Operating Thetans), who are meant to be our inner spirits, is just superb science fiction. But when fiction is offered as a truth then just like any religion, the results are irrational aberrant behaviors.
Their main ambassadors tend to be famous actors, like John Travolta, Kirsty Alley, etc. I find it interesting that actors, who work in a world that creates fantasies, are hardly the best choice for promoting a science fiction writer’s idea as a truth.
Hope my view from an actual experience helps balance the great deal of biased hate that is out on the web for COS.
As part of my exit interviews I agreed to undergo some serious auditing where I was connected to what I still see as lie detectors. They seemed to want to ensure I wasn’t working for the FBI, CIA, or any other investigative body. They had hoped I would become a senior auditor, I think based on my demonstration of extensive philosophical perspectives. They seemed genuinely disappointed when I refused to play along.
Have fun
Cris
I have a tendency to try things regardless of what others say, mainly because I don’t trust too many people and I prefer to obtain my information first hand if I can.
I investigated The Church of Scientology (COS) in early 2000. This was at one of their churches here in San Jose. I have since been expelled of course.
All the people I met who were involved were very pleasant and seemed quite convinced and dedicated to their beliefs. The atmosphere was very family-oriented and I noticed many children during my visits that lasted several months.
The basic idea is that when people have a bad experience or engage in abnormal or ‘bad’ activities then the effect is a form of stress that is impinged on the brain; they call these engrams. The theory is that if you leave these engrams in place they will tend to play on your mind and limit your effectiveness to function in an optimum manner. For some people many bad experiences of excessive deviant behavior can take a considerable toll on the personality and generate considerable inhibitions or further abnormal behavior. As a fundamental idea I believe this position to be quite sound.
The COS approach is to make you face these engrams and remove them. The process is called auditing and largely involves you telling someone your deepest and darkest inner secrets, over and over again. By repeatedly exploring the issues that have troubled you the result is that the underlying issue becomes less and less significant in your mind, until it no longer gives you any trouble. I hope you can see how having to drag to the surface all your dark deep secrets can be significantly traumatic. If you are open about the process and are prepared to trust the auditor then I am convinced that the process can be remarkably effective. By facing the issues that may have plagued you for a great part of your life you are able to experience a freedom you may not be able to experience otherwise.
The downside of course is that a course of something like 10 auditing sessions can run to about $5000. Of course you can overcome that by training to become an auditor and sharing auditing sessions with other auditors, i.e. you audit each other for free. But the training to reach that point can cost you $100Ks.
For those who can’t quite grasp the fundamental ideas or fully commit then the perception is that the whole approach is just an incredible rip-off.
One thing I did notice was a deep conviction against drugs of all types and an emphasis on truly healthy living. The Church in San Jose had an area set aside for drug rehabilitation and a great deal of information about overcoming drug addiction etc.
The Church was also used as the voting station in the 2000 elections.
I took some basic courses that didn’t cost too much, and I did sign up for the $5000 course. I then changed my mind and cancelled, and for that I was expelled.
In terms of basic psychology I think they have some good ideas, but wrapping it up into a religion is quite foolish. L Ron Hubbard had a wonderful imagination and the idea of OTs (Operating Thetans), who are meant to be our inner spirits, is just superb science fiction. But when fiction is offered as a truth then just like any religion, the results are irrational aberrant behaviors.
Their main ambassadors tend to be famous actors, like John Travolta, Kirsty Alley, etc. I find it interesting that actors, who work in a world that creates fantasies, are hardly the best choice for promoting a science fiction writer’s idea as a truth.
Hope my view from an actual experience helps balance the great deal of biased hate that is out on the web for COS.
As part of my exit interviews I agreed to undergo some serious auditing where I was connected to what I still see as lie detectors. They seemed to want to ensure I wasn’t working for the FBI, CIA, or any other investigative body. They had hoped I would become a senior auditor, I think based on my demonstration of extensive philosophical perspectives. They seemed genuinely disappointed when I refused to play along.
Have fun
Cris
auditing, huh?
Or you could just talk to your family members about your problems for free. Or how about getting some friends?
Regular people can listen and be understanding too. They don't need $100,000 training courses to do so.
Sheesh. What kind of training courses are those anyways?? 1-on-1 training for a solid year or something? WHen you're done, do you get one of those [free] "University Diplomas" I see in my Junk Mail folder all of the time? (Hey, now I've got a B.S. in "Thetan Taming"!!!)
Or you could just talk to your family members about your problems for free. Or how about getting some friends?
Regular people can listen and be understanding too. They don't need $100,000 training courses to do so.
Sheesh. What kind of training courses are those anyways?? 1-on-1 training for a solid year or something? WHen you're done, do you get one of those [free] "University Diplomas" I see in my Junk Mail folder all of the time? (Hey, now I've got a B.S. in "Thetan Taming"!!!)
Tom,
I’m not defending the charges made by COS or their tactics, and I’m not a supporter of COS. But the training was really quite interesting.
I met a number of highly intelligent people in my COS experience, and apart form the obvious controversial religious aspects of COS, they had benefited in real practical terms from their COS training. I was also watching to see if they were deluding themselves, but I couldn’t detect that. Perhaps their brainwashing was so complete that I couldn’t tell the difference. But if you’ve ever met any really intelligent people and noticed their quick wit and ability to reason very fast then hopefully you’ll know what I mean. Their point was that the money really wasn’t important when compared to the personal satisfaction they gained for themselves.
I’d have no problem if COS disappeared but I did learn something useful from the experience and I do recognize that others might have a big problem with the COS approach.
My view on life is that everything is an opportunity to experience, whether it appears good or bad, within limits of course.
Take care
Cris
Consider your deepest and darkest secrets, everyone seems to have them, be honest with yourself. Now consider who would you tell? I’d bet you have something that you have no intention of ever telling anyone else, right?
I’m not defending the charges made by COS or their tactics, and I’m not a supporter of COS. But the training was really quite interesting.
I met a number of highly intelligent people in my COS experience, and apart form the obvious controversial religious aspects of COS, they had benefited in real practical terms from their COS training. I was also watching to see if they were deluding themselves, but I couldn’t detect that. Perhaps their brainwashing was so complete that I couldn’t tell the difference. But if you’ve ever met any really intelligent people and noticed their quick wit and ability to reason very fast then hopefully you’ll know what I mean. Their point was that the money really wasn’t important when compared to the personal satisfaction they gained for themselves.
I’d have no problem if COS disappeared but I did learn something useful from the experience and I do recognize that others might have a big problem with the COS approach.
My view on life is that everything is an opportunity to experience, whether it appears good or bad, within limits of course.
Take care
Cris
Cris,
It sounds to me like an "audit" would be like a visit to a Catholic confessional: you tell the priest your problems/sins (be they acts or desires). What do they do to you in the audits that would deserve the charge of $5,000? (When you could go to any church, whether you're Catholic or not, and confess for free.) Is it just the moral support they give you while you're confessing your desires? If so, does this support end as soon as your session ends? ("If you want to cry on our shoulder for another hour, deposit another $5,000...")
I respect your views on the CO$, because you obviously have had an immediate experience with them, while I have only read about them on the internet and heard about them on the news; but I have problems with organizations such as this taking advantage of people. (Same goes for many TV evangelists: "God says send me your money and you'll be absolved of your sins and go to Heaven!!!")
Actually, I tell my girlfriend everything. (even lots of stuff that you wouldn't expect guys to tell their girlfriends...) I guess I'm extremely lucky to have someone so understanding. I'd expect the same understanding from my wife (assuming I get married in the future). If I ever have/had anything that I COULDN'T tell her, I have family and friends I can talk to about it if it bothered me. But I suppose not everyone has someone to talk to.
It sounds to me like an "audit" would be like a visit to a Catholic confessional: you tell the priest your problems/sins (be they acts or desires). What do they do to you in the audits that would deserve the charge of $5,000? (When you could go to any church, whether you're Catholic or not, and confess for free.) Is it just the moral support they give you while you're confessing your desires? If so, does this support end as soon as your session ends? ("If you want to cry on our shoulder for another hour, deposit another $5,000...")
Uh... then why would the CO$ even charge people for this treatment? Wouldn't the auditors be gaining personal satisfaction from helping others overcome thier problems?? I guess the "personal satisfaction" only applies to the person sitting in the chair and coughing up the cash.
I respect your views on the CO$, because you obviously have had an immediate experience with them, while I have only read about them on the internet and heard about them on the news; but I have problems with organizations such as this taking advantage of people. (Same goes for many TV evangelists: "God says send me your money and you'll be absolved of your sins and go to Heaven!!!")
Also, all the scientologists hate me, Xenu! I don't know what's their problem but I'm just trying to rule the universe like any other Intergalactic Nemesis. Those freakin' auditing machines are a pain in the ass, chasing all my evil spirits away and such.
I don't know what's their problem but I'm just trying to rule the universe like any other Intergalactic Nemesis. Those freakin' auditing machines are a pain in the ass, chasing all my evil spirits away and such.
I read Dianetics in 1989 and found it quite interesting. The methodology seemed quite plausible and the book continually referred to “scientific research” that the methods were developed from. I had heard only a little about the connections to the SoC and nothing of any of the accusations against the SoC at that time. I considered it for a while and then decided to visit one of their auditing centers.
At the center I first took an evaluation test and then had a free auditing session. The session was interesting; Auditing is essentially guided self-hypnosis where you repeatedly recall a traumatic event in your life till you have remembered all the details. The hypothesis of Dianetics is that poorly remembered traumas create psychological and psycho-somatic illnesses by implanting commands in the subconscious mind; these illnesses can supposedly be eliminated by recalling the trauma to the conscious mind where it can be handled properly. The session was interesting and even pleasant and I did recall detail of some childhood traumas that I only vaguely recalled previously.
After the session was over the fun began. First I viewed a short film that briefly passed over Dianetics and then delved into Scientology. They then asked me to sit down and write letters to people I didn’t know, telling them how great Scientology was and inviting them to try it. I felt quite uncomfortable with this and refused to do so. They brought me to someone higher up in the organization and we sat down to talk. I simply stated that this was my first experience so how could I possibly recommend it to anyone. She didn’t seem to have a problem with this but started expounding about how Scientology was going to save the world. I also stared asking about Dianetics and if it would be possible to see some of the study results. The reply to this was simply that they were not available. The more I started to query about things the more agitated she became. Eventually we ended the conversation. She recommended a few books to give me a better understanding of Scientology and I agreed to purchase them, spending about $300 in the process. She also invited me to come in for another auditing session, which I did.
As I considered the experience in the intervening week I found myself to be somewhat upset at the events that took place. I went to the session to experience what was supposedly a new psychological method that could improve my thinking and general well-being. I did not go there to become indoctrinated into some religion. I found Scientology's claims about the soul and about God to be rather juvenile and simplistic and I had no interest in them to begin with. It was the supposed "revolutionary psychological science" that interested me. But I went to the second session anyway.
The second session did not proceed as well as the first, my suspicions made me a bit too uncomfortable to truly relax. At the end of the session I again refused to write any letters and I had a brief discussion with another "higher-up". This one was much more aggressive, telling me that the "engrams" (ingrained traumas) were causing this reaction in me and that I really should purchase more auditing sessions so that I could get well. For every question I asked he had a similar response. Similar to Cris's experience but without the lie-detector he asked me if I was working for the FBI or CIA or some state agency. Finally, I simply said goodbye and left.
I haven’t been back since although I did get letters, similar to the ones they asked me to write, for about the next 3 years. I’ve read quite a bit more about Scientology since then and I find the institution quite suspect although I think that most of the individuals truly believe in the psuedo-science of it and that they are doing something good. One of the most obvious issues is money. As Cris pointed out, this stuff is expensive; the books are expensive, the sessions are expensive, and it costs you more and more to progress through each of the “levels”. As I understand it, most of the people who truly get involved wind up working for the organization in order to meet all of these costs. This alone belies their supposed altruism. There are also some horrifying anecdotes as to the treatment of such people.
Another tremendous problem regarding Scientology are the OT3 documents. These are reputedly sensitive “high-level” documents of the CoS that were leaked; you can find them on the internet. The document describes what Scientology believes to be ancient human history. The story given is quite bizarre and essentially states that each of us is a soul afflicted with many other souls. This was brought about when some evil guy killed everyone on ancient Earth, caught their souls on magnetic strips, ingrained them with false memories, and stuck bunches of them together. One might simply think that this document was invented by someone opposed to CoS except for the actions of CoS which have been to declare the publication of this document as copyright infringement and fight a legal battle to have it restricted. Hubbard stated that even reading the document will make an unprepared person insane. Funny, but I seem to be okay so far.
As with some religions today, Scientology attempts to make scientific claims, which are never proven. Unlike most other religions, however, Scientology claims that all it's beliefs are scientifically founded. This is simply not true. I've never seen an iota of evidence presented or even referenced; it is all made up of anecdotes and fables. One should also consider the legal prosecution that has followed Scientology for the last decade +. All over the world Scientology has been prosecuted for its practices and the mis-treatment of its members. It has also been pointed out that the Dianetic concept of ingrained physical traumas has been researched and largely rejected by psychology.
All-in-all I find Scientology to simply be a cult. They draw one in with rational-sounding, psuedo-scientific, promises and positivity and never follow up. Members spend more and more money to attain the promised goals of almost perfect health, unlimited IQ, and supernatural power ("clears" are supposed to be able to affect the world with their minds, levitation, etc.) which, of course, they never attain.
Not much of a conclusion there but I think I've made my points.
~Raithere
At the center I first took an evaluation test and then had a free auditing session. The session was interesting; Auditing is essentially guided self-hypnosis where you repeatedly recall a traumatic event in your life till you have remembered all the details. The hypothesis of Dianetics is that poorly remembered traumas create psychological and psycho-somatic illnesses by implanting commands in the subconscious mind; these illnesses can supposedly be eliminated by recalling the trauma to the conscious mind where it can be handled properly. The session was interesting and even pleasant and I did recall detail of some childhood traumas that I only vaguely recalled previously.
After the session was over the fun began. First I viewed a short film that briefly passed over Dianetics and then delved into Scientology. They then asked me to sit down and write letters to people I didn’t know, telling them how great Scientology was and inviting them to try it. I felt quite uncomfortable with this and refused to do so. They brought me to someone higher up in the organization and we sat down to talk. I simply stated that this was my first experience so how could I possibly recommend it to anyone. She didn’t seem to have a problem with this but started expounding about how Scientology was going to save the world. I also stared asking about Dianetics and if it would be possible to see some of the study results. The reply to this was simply that they were not available. The more I started to query about things the more agitated she became. Eventually we ended the conversation. She recommended a few books to give me a better understanding of Scientology and I agreed to purchase them, spending about $300 in the process. She also invited me to come in for another auditing session, which I did.
As I considered the experience in the intervening week I found myself to be somewhat upset at the events that took place. I went to the session to experience what was supposedly a new psychological method that could improve my thinking and general well-being. I did not go there to become indoctrinated into some religion. I found Scientology's claims about the soul and about God to be rather juvenile and simplistic and I had no interest in them to begin with. It was the supposed "revolutionary psychological science" that interested me. But I went to the second session anyway.
The second session did not proceed as well as the first, my suspicions made me a bit too uncomfortable to truly relax. At the end of the session I again refused to write any letters and I had a brief discussion with another "higher-up". This one was much more aggressive, telling me that the "engrams" (ingrained traumas) were causing this reaction in me and that I really should purchase more auditing sessions so that I could get well. For every question I asked he had a similar response. Similar to Cris's experience but without the lie-detector he asked me if I was working for the FBI or CIA or some state agency. Finally, I simply said goodbye and left.
I haven’t been back since although I did get letters, similar to the ones they asked me to write, for about the next 3 years. I’ve read quite a bit more about Scientology since then and I find the institution quite suspect although I think that most of the individuals truly believe in the psuedo-science of it and that they are doing something good. One of the most obvious issues is money. As Cris pointed out, this stuff is expensive; the books are expensive, the sessions are expensive, and it costs you more and more to progress through each of the “levels”. As I understand it, most of the people who truly get involved wind up working for the organization in order to meet all of these costs. This alone belies their supposed altruism. There are also some horrifying anecdotes as to the treatment of such people.
Another tremendous problem regarding Scientology are the OT3 documents. These are reputedly sensitive “high-level” documents of the CoS that were leaked; you can find them on the internet. The document describes what Scientology believes to be ancient human history. The story given is quite bizarre and essentially states that each of us is a soul afflicted with many other souls. This was brought about when some evil guy killed everyone on ancient Earth, caught their souls on magnetic strips, ingrained them with false memories, and stuck bunches of them together. One might simply think that this document was invented by someone opposed to CoS except for the actions of CoS which have been to declare the publication of this document as copyright infringement and fight a legal battle to have it restricted. Hubbard stated that even reading the document will make an unprepared person insane. Funny, but I seem to be okay so far.
As with some religions today, Scientology attempts to make scientific claims, which are never proven. Unlike most other religions, however, Scientology claims that all it's beliefs are scientifically founded. This is simply not true. I've never seen an iota of evidence presented or even referenced; it is all made up of anecdotes and fables. One should also consider the legal prosecution that has followed Scientology for the last decade +. All over the world Scientology has been prosecuted for its practices and the mis-treatment of its members. It has also been pointed out that the Dianetic concept of ingrained physical traumas has been researched and largely rejected by psychology.
All-in-all I find Scientology to simply be a cult. They draw one in with rational-sounding, psuedo-scientific, promises and positivity and never follow up. Members spend more and more money to attain the promised goals of almost perfect health, unlimited IQ, and supernatural power ("clears" are supposed to be able to affect the world with their minds, levitation, etc.) which, of course, they never attain.
Not much of a conclusion there but I think I've made my points.
~Raithere
Raithere,
Good write up. I was about to do something similar but you have saved me some time.
But an accurate assesment. I did however, enjoy my encounters with the higher-ups - that was pure fun, since as you point out they have no proofs. And they didn't seem to see the possibility that were living in the dreamworld created by a sci-fi writer.
But like you I was attracted to the potential of auditing.
Take care.
Cris
Good write up. I was about to do something similar but you have saved me some time.
But an accurate assesment. I did however, enjoy my encounters with the higher-ups - that was pure fun, since as you point out they have no proofs. And they didn't seem to see the possibility that were living in the dreamworld created by a sci-fi writer.
But like you I was attracted to the potential of auditing.
Take care.
Cris
kmguru
Staff member
You know Cris, with your TM and COS bacground, you could start a religion and be rich. Instead of charging progressively high amount, just set a set fee that is 10% to 25% of a shrink....
It is really a problem to resolve childhood trauma. I had to work with my yoga students through meditation and discussions. It does take time.
There are some cults in America that once you check in you can not check out....at least that is what I saw on a TV program several years ago...
It is really a problem to resolve childhood trauma. I had to work with my yoga students through meditation and discussions. It does take time.
There are some cults in America that once you check in you can not check out....at least that is what I saw on a TV program several years ago...