What is religion?

T

Tholzel

Registered Member
Are we not making far too much out of the question: What is religon? Let us assume the "Man From Mars" position--that is, describe only what happens, and not be allowed to give any explanations of what happened. Once that filter ris in effect, suddenly 90% of the answer disappears--leaving only the simple truth.--religion is 1) a vast complex of unprovable explanations that have almost nothing to do with the provable, i.e, 2) the social aspect of religion, church-going, giving to the poor, hating your unrelegious neighbhor, etc.

(See: http://www.velocitypress.com/pages/Religion.php for further explication.)
 
Tholzel said:
Are we not making far too much out of the question: What is religon? Let us assume the "Man From Mars" position--that is, describe only what happens, and not be allowed to give any explanations of what happened. Once that filter ris in effect, suddenly 90% of the answer disappears--leaving only the simple truth.--religion is 1) a vast complex of unprovable explanations that have almost nothing to do with the provable, i.e, 2) the social aspect of religion, church-going, giving to the poor, hating your unrelegious neighbhor, etc.
Click to expand...

So you think it absolutely essential that every aspect of Religion be completely and utterly far-fetched and definitely "unproveable"? Well, that can be said for any aspect of History after every direct witness has died, or even while the witnesses still live, if you are willing to say that witnesses, as they could have been mentally deranged, do not constitute proof. For instance, we have no "proof" that Christopher Colombus or his three ships ever existed, but only so many assertions which could simply be a conspiracy to put us off the real truth. So all of History suddenly becomes Religion as you define it.

But your definition of Religion would conflict with how Relgions actually work, as Religious People, and not your Martians, tend to define it. Religious or Divine Revelation and Miracles are not unprovable, if by that you mean whether they could pass the strictest rules of evidence. For instance, 75,000 People did witness the Miracle of the Sun in Fatima Portugal in 1917. Skeptical and Atheist Newspaper Reporters were there and they vouched for it. so the Testimonial Evidence was quite beyond reproach. Much of Divine Revelation operates in just such a way. People are convinced because they actually hear, see and experience actual Miracles. It is this Proven Religious Experience which accounts for the Major Spreads of Religion. The Miracle of Our Lady of Guadalupe accounted for the conversion of 6 Million Native American's to Catholicism after only 6 years. Every Major Saint in Europe caused there to be Cults of Belief surrounding their particular Miracles and Revelations, which tended to strengthen the Catholic Church as a whole. Yes, after several Generations, one can question the authenticity of these events, as all of History becomes equally doubtful, but, at the time, it was not their doubtfulness and unprovability that caused a groundswell of fervor among the People, but their absolute certainty that they just witnessed something of God.

And your Martians sound like atheists to me.
 
<<For instance, we have no "proof" that Christopher Colombus or his three ships ever existed, but only so many assertions which could simply be a conspiracy to put us off the real truth. So all of History suddenly becomes Religion as you define it.>>

What I did say is that there are descriptions of what happened (which of course, could be deliberately falsified), and there are explanations of what happened. The Man from Mars approch only allows descriptions, no explanations. Thus Columbus did discover the North American continent (or Hiati or the Dominican Reppublic--wherever he actually landed), but to describe why he did this is unMartian, i.e, for the glory of God, the Spainish Queen, etc.

Likewise, one can say that Jesus was crucified. That "he died for our sins" is explanation and has nothing to do with observable facts.
 
"For instance, 75,000 People did witness the Miracle of the Sun in Fatima Portugal in 1917. Skeptical and Atheist Newspaper Reporters were there and they vouched for it."

Again, something strange was seen by many people. That's a description. What that strange vision was--a saint--is explanation, and n ot kosher, martian-wise
 
one of the problems with religion is that every culture that formed a religion made it non-falsifiable, or potentially non-falsifiable, so they don't have to to prove a damn thing and can weasel their way out of any question with, "It's faith," or "my god did it..."

Cop-outs, basically.

Religion is an attempt to explain the world without really trying to understand anything. It is the absolute appeasement.

"Why was my husband killed by the lemur?"

"God's will. There is a reason. No fucking clue what it is... but there is one."

"Oh, okay, I feel better. ::glee::"

This is stupid and deceitful. There is no reason to put shit into an explanation that is unnecessary.

"Why...?"

"No one knows."

"Oh, okay."

... is a much better response than ridiculous ideas that can lead to people getting killed for their beliefs in other circumstances.
 
"...one of the problems with religion is that every culture that formed a religion made it non-falsifiable, or potentially non-falsifiable, so they don't have to to prove a damn thing and can weasel their way out of any question with, "It's faith," or "my god did it..."

Well put. But rather than use the technical term "nonfalsifiable," I perfer to use the dichotomy of description vs explanation.
 
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