What is EVIL...Vs...What is Mental Illnes...justice or Cure?

R

ripleofdeath

Registered Senior Member
It has been many years since i have bothered to deal with
the issue of "at what point" do we consider people mentally ill.
Hence... actions that defy constructive and nurturing community support...
Directly at the expense of individual rights.
Direct Actions that inhibit a relative Quality of life.
Networking (Gossip/Rumours/Obstructional Behaviour/Physical Abuse/Threats of Physical Abuse/Psychological Abuse)
of intent to infringe upon a persons ability to participate in a Dignafied constructive manner in the community.

I have often wondered if this issue directly relates to a nature of Evil intent...
Evil being defined as the actions Freely chosen by any individual inside or seperate from any group or
organisation, that feed the Ego in any form of Saddistic behaviour, or to gain financial reward or assumed Ego
statis, or to invoke any form of posative reinforcement concurrent with knoledge of direct effect upon any individual.

>Individual being defined by non political or anti societal represention.

This i believe to be a question that has been in the working framework of all religouse theolagyns from
recorded history.
This frame work has only been able to be highlighted by our current level of sparadic peaceful Co-existance.
Peaceful... being represented by express terms of selfdefence.
non concurrent with death penaltys or Corpral punishment.

in an attempt to reduce digresion and increase comprehesion...
considering the above
ipose this seriouse question...
to what point do we consider someone a criminal Vs mentaly Ill cognate progrsion "err" Evil...(?)
what is rellavent for a cure?

#####Those who do not understand the question please do not post on this thread it is a seriouse topic and
i request only seriouse answers!... please.#####

thnx for taking the time to read it
(sorry for any spelling mistakes to err is human to forgive is devine-to cure is angelic)
keep grooving all :)

peace light truth love
the path to that we hold above







:m: :cool: :)
 
No one ever has evil intent. Everyone behaves in a way that they feel is justified.
Regarding acts that go against the rules of society I think the line between mental illness and "evil"is generally drawn between those who cannot understand societys rules and those who do but break them anyway.
 
quote...
No one ever has evil intent. Everyone behaves in a way that they feel is justified.
========
intent ...
the motivator to instigate a type of behavior.

serial killers...
is the intent to nurture and cultivate a better level of communication in society and family/friends?

i feel this runs very close to the doctrine of christian fundermantalism...
hence
good and evil must exist together and it is ok to choose either.

the embace/complicity through awareness and decision to do nothing, ... about evil intent!

the job description of social services/police/military
is to attempt to seek out and stop and then THE PART THAT IS MISSING to "fix" the problem at its origin.

groove on all :)
 
I was thinking of starting a thread on this subject.

In reality, the mentally ill or guilty verdict is ridiculous.
If someone is murdering people and keeping them in his basement the fact is he is mentally ill. It doesn't matter if the tests can detect that or not.

Logically speaking a murderer is no more "guilty" than we are for buying a computer. He is murdering because he wants to for some reason, We don't, thats the only difference. You might say I want to murder someone but I know not to, well he didn't. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Alot of studies are starting to indicate murderers are born murderers and its starting to look like everyone is born to be what they become.
Rapists, pedophiles, sadists, crossdressers, whatever. All these people can't really help what they are. Of course we also can't have these people on the streets so the judicial system isn't about to change.

Not everyone is fit for this "society" we have and so society punishes them and my emotions agree with that, I'm as angry with pedophiles as anyone else, but my brain tells me that the pedophile is no more guilty than the innocent child, the murderer is no more guilty than the old lady hosing her garden and so on.
Humans don't really understand themselves as much as they think and good and bad is a matter of opinion in the end. There is no way society will ever be rid of these "bad" people because they are a natural occurence that(at the moment) we have no way of controlling.

Soon it will be possible to figure out if a fetus is going to be a murderer or rapist or whatever, should we kill a fetus if we know its going to hurt people? We might as well, its as "guilty" as the grown man in jail for murdering 12.
Its a tough perplexing subject.
 
Dr Lou,
A few questions.

Do you really think that crossdressers fit in teh category of "of course we also can't have these people on the streets"?
Or was that an oversight?

Judging from your posts (here and otherwise) I get the impression that you are pro capital punsihment.
Is this the case?
If so, do you draw a line between curable ilness and incurable ilness?
If so, how does that line get defined? Where does it get drawn?
If you do draw that line, do should the curables be spared from capital punishment?
 
If you put the guy in the electric chair and he says "Yippie! Where we going?" then he is too retarded.

But on a more serious note:
I don't think we can tell the difference 100% of the time. I'll stick with the current requirement of having the person know the difference between right/wrong as the seperation between mentally ill and evil. How you test if someone knows right/wrong is questionable though.
 
Originally posted by one_raven
Dr Lou,
A few questions.

Do you really think that crossdressers fit in teh category of "of course we also can't have these people on the streets"?
Or was that an oversight?
That was an accident but I noticed before I posted, I left it in because it made me laugh:p

Judging from your posts (here and otherwise) I get the impression that you are pro capital punsihment.
Is this the case?
If so, do you draw a line between curable ilness and incurable ilness?
If so, how does that line get defined? Where does it get drawn?
If you do draw that line, do should the curables be spared from capital punishment?
Me? Pro capital punishment?
My beliefs aren't nearly as black and white as that, in fact I don't think any of the people on death row at the moment should be there but at the same time I'm not half as worried about people dieing as most people are.
Sometimes I need to alter my own beliefs in order to fit into discussions. When I said "should we kill the fetus..." I was talking to the people that believe in killing murderers. What I'm saying is the fetus is just as guilty so you make your mind up.
If you want to kill the murderer, technically you should want to kill a new born baby that is destined to be a murderer as well.
I like to look at the animal kingdom in order to learn about humanity because we are animals and technically we should follow the same laws if you ask me. Not exactly, all animal laws vary throughout the species but most are logical, humans are anything but, some are downright crazy and stupid.
For example trying to figure out if a murderer is mentally stable or not. I don't think there is a line between sane and insane, who's the judge? I think there is just a plethera of individuals and some of those individuals like cutting people up, some like shopping out of catalogues etc.
 
Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
some like shopping out of catalogues etc.
Click to expand...

THOSE sickos should be put away for a long time.
Save us ALL from them!!!


Said by the Deacon Lounitarian movementI like to look at the animal kingdom in order to learn about humanity because we are animals and technically we should follow the same laws if you ask me.
Click to expand...

That is strikingly similar to the basis of my moral and social beliefs.

I am still waiting for someone to explain to me why human life has some intrinsic value over any other life (other than "God said so").

I once hit a possum with my car about 10 years ago.
I was about 20.
I just clipped it with my bumper, I didn't kill it.
When I looked in my rear view mirror i saw it running quickly in a small tight circle.
It looked like I hit it's head and given it brain damage or something.
I was hoping I just broke a leg or something and it was limping.
I called thge police and had them get animla control out there.
The next day I called the police to see what happened to it.
The cop pulled the report and said that animal control had to put it down.
I was sad, and asked what the vet said.
I told him I felt bad that I hit it.
He said that I shouldn't feel bad because it wasn't my fault.
It had rabies and had to be put down anyway.
Something about that didn't sit right with me.
I understood that if I had a child that I wouldn't want it to be bit by a rabid animal, but on teh other hand the real choice is between my child having a series of shots in the belly and killing an animal.
(I know that rabies destroys the brain and all, but it started me thinking in terms of principal and the principal we worked on was that a human life is more important than animal life.)
I still can't figure out why that is.
What qualifies it?

Besides, I think humans should interefere with the course of nature as absolutely little as possible.
There is a big part of me that wishes I could just instantly make everything that was ever created my the hands and minds (including language and all) of mankind simultaneously.
I have told that to people, and the first thing I ususally get as a reply is something along the lines of, "But most people wouldn't be able to handle that. Billions would die."
To which I reply, "And?"
 
Awesome one raven, Its cool to know someone out there feels the same way.

Originally posted by one_raven
There is a big part of me that wishes I could just instantly make everything that was ever created my the hands and minds (including language and all) of mankind simultaneously.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by that?
Sometimes I wish I could go back in time to 1 million years ago, just to see how the world looked before humans evolved. Or go back to when the first apes stood upright and shoot them all in the head.

It seems like such a shame when you consider what earth would be like without us and then look at what it is, there are nice aspects of humanity but they seem to be trivial and not worth it to me.

The general consensus seems to be animals are out there FOR us.
I was at the ocean just yesterday and a family was fishing and a little boy said "look dad! theres lots of bait over there" pointing to a school of little fish, I had to say "they're called fish" with a slightly annoyed tone. The child was scared and his parents weren't happy.

It just bothers me so much, people don't seem to realise that animals have lives of their own and they are usually infinitely less comfortable than ours, they need to struggle for everything and we get to take it easy whilst mindlessly adding to their problems which they clearly have enough of.

The people who hold humans so highly above everything else like to focus on our desirable traits like intelligence and the good things we occasionally do, they also like to greatly ignore other animals, thinking of them as a resource waiting for us to utilize rather than living beings with their own lives and desirable traits. In all honesty we have alot more undesirables than anything else, thats obvious.

But I have to admit things have improved in the last 20 years or so, slowed down at least, there is still alot of room for improvement.

Anyway what does this have to do with the subject? Well not much apart from putting a different perspective on our laws, I think most of them are fairly trivial and/or stupid. You asked me about capital punishment one raven and I think purposely murdering a wild animal should be one reason for it rather than a lame ass fine, thats a joke, I can't believe you get a "fine" for killing an endangered animal and sentenced to death for killing an animal that is in plague proportions.

Thats humanities problem I believe, its all in the book of lounatarianism;), we hold human life so incredibly high. We aim to put an end to human death altogether, we want no more wars, no more disease, no more anything that will hurt people. But how many people do there need to be before we realise there is a problem? How many "resources" are we going to have left if there is no room for them to live?

In case you didn't know an elephant can't go into mcdonalds, thats only for people, so the animals have to sniff around the walls wondering where the hell their old supermarket went. Countless animals have died simply because our buildings are on top of their houses and food source or because some greedy creature took all the food out of their part of the ocean.
And for all the smug pro-human people out there, guess what? We can't survive without animals anyway, even if you don't care if all the animals die you have to realise that they are making the planet earth livable. All the people will die and isn't that what you don't want? Or is it ok as long as we take everything else with us?

I find it hard to believe that the people in charge of the progress of society don't see this problem, I really don't understand.

Anyway sorry for getting off topic, every post I make seems to get to this subject eventually, it just seems important and linked to every aspect of life in one way or another, I would feel bad but some people only post about george w bush so I feel multi-faceted in comparison:p

PS: one raven if it is any consolation I will tell you that rabies is no way to die so it really is for the best that the possum got put to death for its sake, I don't think the possum would have been euthanised for the threat it caused to humanity but rather the fact it was leading a painful existence. Rabies infected animals can't swallow so you can imagine what thats like.
 
heyya all :)
Dr Lou Natic
Quote...
I can't believe you get a "fine" for killing an endangered animal and sentenced to death for killing an animal that is in plague proportions.
======
quick story from this end of the planet...
a guy(foriegn student) crashed his car into a guy and his baby daughter(he said it wasnt his fault but he was witnessed driving like a crazzy freak... supposedly only minutes before the accident)
seriousely injured the guy and killed the babby girl,
he was liable for 6 months in jail or $5000.00 fine
<> person piosened some ducks... is liable for $10,000.00 fine.
====
BACK TOWARD THE TOPIC...
with ... who decides the type of intervention for crimes???
its the same people all the time!
====
i am currently doing a thesis on "blood lust"!
this i believe to be the root cause of a large amount of crime!
Hence... you are what you eat!
Hence... intent to continue with killing of animals and then people.
Hence... Intent to do "evil"
we are consticted by laws to make us eat meat and consequently
kill animals and people!
it is out of the price range of most people to stay healthy and not eat meat! ... this is intensional!
*****WE NEED TO CURE THIS to enable humans to move into the next stage of evolution!*****
so...
what should we do with the people who with the ability of wealth
, hence free will, choose to commit crimes of evil intent/anti social crimes I.E interfearance and inpedament of other peoples lives...?
should this be considered a desease that needs to be excised?

history has showen that all these types of behaviour result in the fall of the civilisation!
hence... this one is doomed!
unless we can find a cure for those who continue to control other people by fear and shame and intimadation and manipulation.
GREED is a desease just like any other mental illnes!
and often is used as an excuse to commit pathological behaviour!
I.E. = the often parroted phrase "humans are 'naturaly' GREEDY"
... a reinforcement of an excuse for the "evil intent"=pathological.

justice = kill all greedy people
cure = we can change them to "not be greedy"

most people say "we want justice"!
which will entail armagehdon to some extent.

i am currently of the beliefe that "blood lust" is a pre cursor for such sociatal disfunction.
MY PERSONAL BELIEFE = seperation
(locked-up away from society)
is the best form of criminal intervention.
I DO NOT BELIEVE IN CAPITOL PUNISHMENT!
but... most other people force it to be the only method of intervention that they will accept!...
because they do not want to face their own metal illnesses
which they instill upon their children through "bad parenting"...hence they train psychopaths!

so they tie their own fate and that of the world!

Will it change before "the report is handed in"?
time grows short and mother nature will not wait untill all things are genocidally excised by mental illness of greed!
the inballance will be attended to!
its just a question of if humans will rise to the challenge or
force "justice" upon themselfs.

thoughts ... ?

groove on all :)

peace light truth love
the path to that we hold above
 
Originally posted by ripleofdeath
heyya all :)
Dr Lou Natic
Quote...
I can't believe you get a "fine" for killing an endangered animal and sentenced to death for killing an animal that is in plague proportions.
======
quick story from this end of the planet...
a guy(foriegn student) crashed his car into a guy and his baby daughter(he said it wasnt his fault but he was witnessed driving like a crazzy freak... supposedly only minutes before the accident)
seriousely injured the guy and killed the babby girl,
he was liable for 6 months in jail or $5000.00 fine
<> person piosened some ducks... is liable for $10,000.00 fine.
Click to expand...
Ok
How about this:
Someone poisons a baby girl= life in prison
Someone drives like a maniac and runs over a duck= diddly squat/fond memories of running over duck

See?
and you are displaying your pro-human stance by being obviously disgruntled that poisoning ducks gets a bigger fine than accidently running into a car which happens to have a baby in it.
I couldn't disagree more, Why would anyone poison a duck? That is an incredibly sinister thing to do while accidently having a car accident is an honest mistake, the rulings were close to right but the duck poisoner should be sentenced to death by way of being pecked to a pulp by the dead duck's family and friends.
 
:eek:
in other words
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek
=====
not what i was meaning!
i was mearly pointing out the incredible problems with
trying to gain some form of "therapy" to try to ...
A. create a vacine and cure for rabies

B. have people who are honest so we know how to fix the problems to the best of our ability.

C. create peaceful CO-existance between humans (who have the technology to "not have to kill other animals") (fertility research)
and the "animal kingdom".

i believe humans should not have pets!
it results in humans killing other animals for a selfish gain!

we have technology to replace all tasks performed by "pets"
but humans who are ostracised from society find comfort in the
"perverted need for food and shelter" created by the humans in the first place.

[what is a compitent drivers skill level... who is bribed to give the license]
2 more big issues!

does that make sence?
i hope so.

groove on all :)

peace light truth love
the path to that we hold above
 
Originally posted by Dr Lou Natic
What do you mean by that?
Click to expand...

I mean instantaneously (obviously this is just a flight of fancy, unless, of course, you have a magic wand I could borrow) removing everything man-made.

Buildings, roads, languages, religions, pace-makers, hip-pins, hospitals, art, pottery, technology, the wheel, God EVERYTHING Man-made.

We will find ourselves in the original "natural" state as functioal as newborn infants.

MANY people will die instantly (or shortly thereafter), and that's something I would be willing to have on my conscious if I had the magic wand.
 
heyya all :)

ok... ethics of morality in light of current evolution of spirituality is a bit of a side track!

we are
we are here
we are here now
we are!

blah blah blah

'what now' is more the moot to this topic...
point to form contrast...
in the rule of nature a liar or that of ill will is most often killed!

this is a retarding procedure for our state of evolutionary development.
the supresion and confinement of those of ill-intent is more the ground level to the relative equation.

we reproduce!
so...
we nurture the reproductive cycle as a natural state.
hence communal living
hence city living
expressly, distribution of food and shelter is a cause and effect of the distructive interpretation of "big citys"

making sence to anyone?
gotta ask!

:bugeye:
groove on all :)
 
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