What if God is Universe?

[Sufi]

Some more quesions to question your conception of "deity"...

Some concludes that God is Universe. But, have you ever considered what we mean by the "universe"?

Just consider what would happen if instead of having our present view of universe, we perceived everything as though through the lenses of a very powerful electro-microscope, say with a capacity of 1000 billion times magnification?

Would we stiil be able to talk about the existence of universe as we do now? What would be real to us, then?

Knowing this and going a step further... What about "the-what" that our perception tools are not able to give us any idea of?

 

[Cris]

The god concept implies intelligence, the universe concept does not. They are different and not the same. But if they are synonomous then one of the terms is redundant and we know the universe exists.

As to your question: Why try to place a limit on the universe? Why not simply imagine infinity?

 

[what768]

What is intelligence? Isn't it something that requires thinking? But if God knows everything, then there's no need for him to think. Thinking is only needed for the body, so that it could perceive higher truth. It's like this with the feelings also, they're all created by the brain.

Is the universe just a perception created by the five senses of our brain (mind)? Are there hidden organs in the brain which let's us understand things that we yet can't? Am "I" an illusion? If we stop thinking and doing things, and just realize that everything is a perception, what can be left?

What if we forget about ourselves, considering that we are not our body and we ourselves do not exist. Maybe we would be like when we were small children, "we" didn't really control ourselves back then. Rather this body and mind which I see as "me" would "continue" by itself and I would feel myself "everything".

What is it that makes us feel and see things? It is the brain (mind). But if the universe is an illusion, then what is it that sends us an electrical signal in our brain the time we touch something with this perception tool in a world of illusion? (How and why?)

Todays science has a theory about small vibrating strings of energy which form everything in the universe, including "non-physical" things, like our thoughts. These strings of energy appear in different forms, lengths, strengths etc. and that way creating a very persistent illusion for us. Then the sum of all the perception is what we call God? I and the universe is one and the same? I myself include the universe and I fill the universe? The universe is a perception created by my brain, I am an illusion created by the universe? "This" is the reality? It is neither the one or the other, it is what is "between"?

 

[robtex]

damn Cris good answer.

 

[beyondtimeandspace]

Cris, I think that is the question at hand isn't it? If God is said to be infinite, and we propose that the universe is infinite, then, conclusively, we could say that the universe is God, since actual infinites would be identical. Furthermore, to say that the universe is infinite would imply that it itself does have consciousness.

I think to understand this properly, the distinction must be made between an actual infinite and a potential infinite. If you mean by saying, "what if the universe is infinite?" you mean potentially infinite, then the answer is already known. The universe is potentially infinite, meaning, with a beginning point, it will continue forever, meeting out an actually infinite number of possibilities. However, if, by infinite, you refer to actual infinity, that is, a complete set, without room for change, growth, meeting out of potential, etc... then it can easily be shown that the universe is not actually infinite.

When one speaks of God as being infinite, they usually mean that God is actually infinite, rather than potentially infinite. If God were potentially infinite, He would be limited, and would not be omnipresent, omnipotent, omnibenvolent, etc... However, as an actual infinite, God can be said to be such things. Therefore, if one is speaking of God as an actual infinite, then one may not say that God is the universe, since we already know that the universe cannot be actually infinite. However, if one believes God to be potentially infinite, just as we all are, then it may be possible to say that God is the universe, since, just as us, the universe is potentially infinite. In such a way, God, then, is simply the interconnectedness of all things, and may or may not be a conscious entity, since it is unknown that the universe itself has reached the point of universal consciousness.

Furthermore, in being able to say that the universe is not actually infinite, we can assert that the universe had a beginning. In fact, it is generally agreed upon that the universe had a beginning within the scientific community, within the religious community, and pretty much within the philosophical community as well. In making this assertion, there is strong likelyhood that there existed something prior to the beginning of the universe that set it into motion, since nothing can come out of nothing, and in fact ONLY nothing can come out of nothing.

So, since it is very much agreed upon that the universe had a beginning, and under the notion of infinities it seems logically false to say that there only exists potential infinites, one may conclude strongly, but not totally, that there exists an actual infinite. We call this actual infinite God, but it cannot be said to be the universe itself.