What Defines 'Stealing the Oil'?
- Thread starter Carcano
- Start date
I think a lot of people did, as it was quite soon after the invasion of Iraq. I guess they were planning to build permanent bases in Iraq instead.
my_Names_Steve
Registered Member
If anything happens with the oil in the M.E; that results in the US possessing oil, it would be the first good thing out of this war. But now that this will never happen without use of force, we must be clusterf-cked....
The building of permanent bases in Iraq is only asking for more problems in the M.E. With the US building more infuence in the ME, through the use of "hard" or "soft" powers, it still causes the countries in the ME to become more skitish/paranoid/defensive/whatnot.... Once they see that the US is gaining more influence and backing certain countries/organizations, it could possibly lead to the development of semi unified, organized ME, with a common "enemy".
In concerns to making a profit on selling oil that we can not obtain in the ME.... There will be no profit. It costs 1/4 of a million american $$$ to train, supply, pay and sustain one, new recruit for 1 year of service. So tell me how many troops have been trained and deployed in the ME? The solution is not to sell oil at a higher price because that will cause economic collapse... which would suck for the US. As our economy is in this "oh so delicate" state of being... We do not need to add any more weight to the people in this country. It could cause this economic collapse in many ways.... One People will be forced to use more money on the oil industry, and less on commerical products. This will NOT encourage the development of luxury items and other things that people want/need. It also boosters an industry that has no equal in rise in stock vaule, next to net buisness? im not quite sure about that one.... but its clear that the oil industry is huge. And with a unique economy like the US's, many expects in the field of economics state that we need to promote the types of buisness that encourages the devolopment of commericial products and "in-state" work.
The building of permanent bases in Iraq is only asking for more problems in the M.E. With the US building more infuence in the ME, through the use of "hard" or "soft" powers, it still causes the countries in the ME to become more skitish/paranoid/defensive/whatnot.... Once they see that the US is gaining more influence and backing certain countries/organizations, it could possibly lead to the development of semi unified, organized ME, with a common "enemy".
In concerns to making a profit on selling oil that we can not obtain in the ME.... There will be no profit. It costs 1/4 of a million american $$$ to train, supply, pay and sustain one, new recruit for 1 year of service. So tell me how many troops have been trained and deployed in the ME? The solution is not to sell oil at a higher price because that will cause economic collapse... which would suck for the US. As our economy is in this "oh so delicate" state of being... We do not need to add any more weight to the people in this country. It could cause this economic collapse in many ways.... One People will be forced to use more money on the oil industry, and less on commerical products. This will NOT encourage the development of luxury items and other things that people want/need. It also boosters an industry that has no equal in rise in stock vaule, next to net buisness? im not quite sure about that one.... but its clear that the oil industry is huge. And with a unique economy like the US's, many expects in the field of economics state that we need to promote the types of buisness that encourages the devolopment of commericial products and "in-state" work.
Hi Steve, and welcome. (I try to welcome all new posters, but as I agree very much with what I understand is your POV, I extend an especially warm welcome to you.)
I do not think there is any solution to be found in oil. Besides oil is a treasure as chemical feed stock and it is essentially criminal (crime against later generations) to burn it up for heat. I live in Brazil, drive a car on 100% alcohol using technology that has been developed during the last 30+ years in Brazil. Approximately half the cars on the road (not including those bigger, expensive imported ones some rich people drive) run on pure alcohol, produced locally from sugar cane. Approximately, 80% of all cars sold now are able to use any mixture of gasoline or alcohol , but most use 100% alcohol as it is significantly cheaper. (This is true, despite fact that the Brazilian oil company, PetroBras, is still controlled by the government and especially as elections approach, not allowed to raise the price of gasoline to reflect its increasing value in the world market.) Alcohol is produced by hundreds of entirely private concerns, and competition keeps the price low, but still profitable, instead of rising to the cost of gasoline.) You will find more at thread I started "Alcohol - the obvious answer Yes or No?"
Some liquid fuel is essential for some time (more than a decade at least) although if some quick way to recharge electric cars were developed, that might not be true. I think, but few discuss, that there may be potential in a super fly-wheel powered car, but it hard to tell. Perhaps coal liquefaction can be made to work, but that will even increase the release of CO2 above that of gasoline powered cars. That is a great feature of alcohol powered cars - they will actually reduce the release of CO2 as only a small fraction of the CO2 the growing cane removes from the air returns to the air as car exhaust. (Some of the carbon sequestered by the growing cane is in the cane, just as it is sequested by planting trees. Some of the carbon remains in the ground as roots etc.)
SUMMARY: We need to get off the "oil binge" the global economy is on, and it will not be easy, but alcohol (as replacement for gasoline) is the only way to do this with reduction in cost to drive, reduction in CO2 release, (actually net removal from the air) and zero technological risk and development cost (it is old established technology)
That is interesting - where does that come from (the source)?my_Names_Steve said:
I do not think there is any solution to be found in oil. Besides oil is a treasure as chemical feed stock and it is essentially criminal (crime against later generations) to burn it up for heat. I live in Brazil, drive a car on 100% alcohol using technology that has been developed during the last 30+ years in Brazil. Approximately half the cars on the road (not including those bigger, expensive imported ones some rich people drive) run on pure alcohol, produced locally from sugar cane. Approximately, 80% of all cars sold now are able to use any mixture of gasoline or alcohol , but most use 100% alcohol as it is significantly cheaper. (This is true, despite fact that the Brazilian oil company, PetroBras, is still controlled by the government and especially as elections approach, not allowed to raise the price of gasoline to reflect its increasing value in the world market.) Alcohol is produced by hundreds of entirely private concerns, and competition keeps the price low, but still profitable, instead of rising to the cost of gasoline.) You will find more at thread I started "Alcohol - the obvious answer Yes or No?"
Some liquid fuel is essential for some time (more than a decade at least) although if some quick way to recharge electric cars were developed, that might not be true. I think, but few discuss, that there may be potential in a super fly-wheel powered car, but it hard to tell. Perhaps coal liquefaction can be made to work, but that will even increase the release of CO2 above that of gasoline powered cars. That is a great feature of alcohol powered cars - they will actually reduce the release of CO2 as only a small fraction of the CO2 the growing cane removes from the air returns to the air as car exhaust. (Some of the carbon sequestered by the growing cane is in the cane, just as it is sequested by planting trees. Some of the carbon remains in the ground as roots etc.)
SUMMARY: We need to get off the "oil binge" the global economy is on, and it will not be easy, but alcohol (as replacement for gasoline) is the only way to do this with reduction in cost to drive, reduction in CO2 release, (actually net removal from the air) and zero technological risk and development cost (it is old established technology)
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my_Names_Steve
Registered Member
Hey Billy T, thanks for the welcome.
I do not have the card for the price of one solider right now, as all my evidence is in the mail being sent to my apartment. But when i find it ill scan it or give you the online sorce to it.
Brazil is now using ethanol (sp?) to fuel all of its cars, and has been for many years. It is produced from a rare and magical thing called.....corn. Its sad that the US is not as interested in alternates to fossil fuels as it should be.
The only way that i see the US changing from oil to something else, is if we push upon the public the use of hybrid cars. This would be the first step in moving onto a new power source. From there it quite possible to encourage the public to using Ethanol (sp?). If the US continues to use fossil fuels; im willing to bet that we will deplete all known sources of it within my lifetime. When i need to pay for a 200$+ barrel of oil, i will sit in the corner of my room and cry.
I do not have the card for the price of one solider right now, as all my evidence is in the mail being sent to my apartment. But when i find it ill scan it or give you the online sorce to it.
Brazil is now using ethanol (sp?) to fuel all of its cars, and has been for many years. It is produced from a rare and magical thing called.....corn. Its sad that the US is not as interested in alternates to fossil fuels as it should be.
The only way that i see the US changing from oil to something else, is if we push upon the public the use of hybrid cars. This would be the first step in moving onto a new power source. From there it quite possible to encourage the public to using Ethanol (sp?). If the US continues to use fossil fuels; im willing to bet that we will deplete all known sources of it within my lifetime. When i need to pay for a 200$+ barrel of oil, i will sit in the corner of my room and cry.
I don't know how to take this - is it a joke? I clearly said Brazilian alcohol (ethanol) comes from sugar cane, not corn.my_Names_Steve said:
Why would you think that? It is sort of the same as telling me that you moved to your new apartment by way of the moon, where you took a rest stop.my_Names_Steve said:
It is quite simple to make the few changes to a gasoline engine required to make it burn alcohol, but a major effort, so complex that there is no guarantee of economic success if total conversion is to be achieved (serious battery disposal pollution problems, great cost as exotic battery material become scares etc) in trying to convert to "hybrid cars" (here I have assumed you are speaking of the small gasoline engine / electric motor / rechargeable battery car with in-wheel electrical generators for regenerative braking. (there are several other types of hybrids, some with no electric motors or generators - for example compress gas energy storage with pump for regenerative braking is very practical, less complex than electric hybrids, but useful only for big urban (not hilly) frequent stops vehicle like a mail truck or school bus etc.)
By far the simplest, most economical, most certain (proven by millions on the road for dozens of years) and most ecologically beneficial way to get off oil, is alcohol.
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my_Names_Steve
Registered Member
I have read somewhere that we can use the US's corn that we produce and turn it into a type or form of ethanol that can be used as an alternate power source.... Sorry it was not clear that i was trying to state the US should be using it.
To move from an oil based energy source, we can not just drop the entire market. The US being one of the major buyers in oil suddenly changing to a non oil source of power would destroy the world economy. It would quickly destroy the economy of serveral oil based nations, like those of the middle east and create a ripple effect on the prices of oil throughout the world. This would be very bad. A different plan would be to use the gas/electric hybrid cars for some time and encourage the public to use them. From there we can move onto other sources like ethanol. Which as u stated....
"By far the simplest, most economical, most certain (proven by millions on the road for dozens of years) and most ecologically beneficial way to get off oil, is alcohol"
To move from an oil based energy source, we can not just drop the entire market. The US being one of the major buyers in oil suddenly changing to a non oil source of power would destroy the world economy. It would quickly destroy the economy of serveral oil based nations, like those of the middle east and create a ripple effect on the prices of oil throughout the world. This would be very bad. A different plan would be to use the gas/electric hybrid cars for some time and encourage the public to use them. From there we can move onto other sources like ethanol. Which as u stated....
"By far the simplest, most economical, most certain (proven by millions on the road for dozens of years) and most ecologically beneficial way to get off oil, is alcohol"
No need to worry about that, especially if you think the way to get to alcohol fueled cars is via a stage of gas/electric hybrid ones - Perhaps you really did move to your new apartment by way of the moon?my_Names_Steve said:
Have you any rational reason to think that "via gas/electric hybrid" path is not at least 10 times slower and 10 times more expensive that the simple conversion of current internal combustion engines to a slightly different fuel?
In any case, one of the main reasons, I think the US economy is doomed, (unable to switch to an energy source to replace oil, before it economically crashes under the weight of its "suburban infrastructure") is that it was necessary to have started a serious conversion effort back when "forward looking" Detroit was introducing the SUV!
BTW, some still argue that ethanol, produced from Iowa's corn is a net negative energy gain. (Because of all he petroleum based fertilizer used to stimulate rapid growth in compensation for the short growing season etc.) but I think it is about a 10% positive net gain. In contrast, in Brazil where the grass called "sugar cane" even occasionally grows wild, little fertilizer is used (none required, but some does increase the yield and is profitable to apply). Most studies show a net energy gain of at least 300% and one even 800%! This because most of the energy input is solar (in both cases) but in Brazil sunlight is stronger and collected all year, plus some of the input energy is the human labor of the cane cutters. (I also think these studies include the electricity produced and the mechanical energy directly used in crushing, etc., when the crushed cane is burned for steam generation as that alone usually exceeds the petroleum input energy. Also the fact that it does not travel from distant places to the "gas station" i.e. is not from the Mid East, Alaska etc. helps.)
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Billy T said:
All resources in the universe, are owned by the entities which can defend it. If you can defend it, you own it, and if you can't, then you don't.
This means you don't own anything in your house unless you can defend it all.
"TimeTraveler: "you don't own anything in your house unless you can defend it all."
By that assertion you are either insincere, or a criminal. My bet: Insincerity, otherwise known as talking out of your ass.
By that assertion you are either insincere, or a criminal. My bet: Insincerity, otherwise known as talking out of your ass.
hypewaders said:
He is right, in a way. Would you leave your house unlocked if you go away for a holiday? And if you did (or didn't), and came back and found it stripped, how would you get back your things? You'd need the law and even then, you'd only get back your things if the people who took them could be found. Even then, it may not be possible to get back everything.
Happened to someone I know. They went for a vacation overseas and came back to find two movers trucks had stripped them of everything in their absence. And no, they never did find them. And insurance does not cover everything, especially sentimental value.
" if you ... came back and found it stripped, how would you get back your things?"
By TimeTraveler's purported sense of reality, one could seize equivalent stuff from neighbors through overwhelming force.
Crime happens. So let's all join in... Not!
By TimeTraveler's purported sense of reality, one could seize equivalent stuff from neighbors through overwhelming force.
Crime happens. So let's all join in... Not!
I do not understand why you posted this as if a comment on my post. It seems totally unrelated, but perhaps I am missing your point? None-the-less, because it relates to your comments,TimeTraveler said:
I will pass on perhaps the most important thing ever said to me:
As a JHU graduate student I visited a cousin in “fox hall” part of DC. When I arrived, she was already busily polishing her senile mother's set of silver (She had her own, mainly wedding presents, plus that of a dead grandmother's also on the table waiting their turn for this twice a year chore.) I helped and we talked. After about an hour of our joint polishing efforts, she casually said:
"You know, you really don't own things, things own you."
This wisdom made it easy for me to sell everything that would not fit into the airplane's free baggage allowance when I moved to Brazil. Hope you do not mind giving up all travel, going out to eat, etc, so you can stay home to protect your house and its contents. With your POV, they own 100% of you.
PS to SamDCkey:
My Brazilian wife's son was away from home (which is several hours drive from where we live) on a two week vacation and that happened to him also, but worse. With the price of copper being what it is today, all the wiring in the walls was ripped out too.