what came first the universe or the egg

if something has no beggining then it simply cant exist does anyones mind actually understand that everything has a creator. name something that exists that hasnt been created by something else, if you can answer that then you have evidence to prove me wrong if not then you cannot say my theory is incorrect.


i have many many theorys some contradict others but i dont think any are impossible.
 
1. the universe
2. time
3. God, or some type of a spiritual force or what you refer to as your "creator"
4. either the chicken, or the egg
5. my endless immortal heart burn, loneliness, sorrow and pain
 
They have always co-existed. The egg is part of the universe and may never be disassembled from it.

c20
 
Actually, I just threw that in as a joke, but I'm not so sure about your reply. In a sense, you have to be correct in saying that they always co-existed, but only in the sense that "always" means when we knew when to call a chicken a chicken, and not what a chicken evolved from. And what would we call that? Eggs did evolve. Some vertebrates (fish and jellyfish) that chickens evolved from do not produce eggs when they reproduce. So when eggs evolved they were first enclosures: soft eggs like some fish and amphibians have. Chickens produce hard calcium-encased eggs. There must've be a time when they were first soft eggs, and then a time before that when there were none at all. Maybe we should say: "Never say never."
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
The earth is the center of the universe...
The earth is flat......
The sun revovles around the earth....


we realise we arent as clever as we thought,
when we realise we were wrong,
but until we are proven wrong we think what we know is right without doubt and accept no other explanation.
why is this? for an "intelligent society" thats very nieve
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bit of advice,best not to come into a debate convinced that you are cleverer than everybody.makes you look like a bit of an ass.
 
I said that "in sense he has to be correct." Isn't that a compliment? Inquiry may lead to friendly debate but I'm just stating the facts on a website forum designed to enhance people's knowledge of a subject.

A bit of advice, your advice may "look like you're a bit of an ass" - quote, unquote. This is a "knowledge" forum. I am not trying to be "clever," but still, if I were trying to be clever, what is wrong with being clever??? That's how most all of our inventions were made throughout history.
 
i didnt imply im smarter than anyone here Kensworth, read what i said " we realise we arent as clever as we think" implying that i too am not clever on a universal understandng and grasping all aspects of time and space. and when i said "intelligent society" i meant making in general or am i not allowed to say what i think of mankind?.
 
I had to review all your postings to find your reference to an "intelligent society." To me that is a joke. Have we on earth ever had an intelligent society? I think not. But that is beyond the scope of this thread. Am I "clever" or "intelligent"? I think not. A wise man once said that the more you learn, the more you realize how much that you do not know, and how much there is out there to learn. That is where I am at in my life. I know enough to know how much that I do not know, and I "struggle" to learn. I cry as I write this - really! And my heart sinks. Why? I have no idea???

I think you must be a very beautiful person, and I'm not referring to physical beauty: your postings reveal your beautiful mind. And I guess I should have read more of what you wrote before I posted anything. I now see more of what this forum is all about and what you believe in.

This is probably a bit surprising to you, but I graduated from Ohio University with a B.A. in Philosophy and an M.B.A. - the later is wortheless to me. Anyways, what spawned my interest in philosophy is my interest in Taoism. After reading the "Tao Te Ching" (Treatise of the Tao and the Way), my life was changed forever. I considered myself a Taoist for years and still find a more solid foundation in Taoism than any religion (although I know Taoism is not a religion), or any ethical philosophical dogmas. The problem I find with Taoism, however much I would love to adhere to it, is that in order to be a pure Toaist, you really would have to abandon all ties with society, and Taoism advocates the futile pursuit of learning any knowledge at all! So how could I continue going to school and getting an education and still be a pure Taoist? You can't. And by asking questions like you're doing on this forum, aren't you in the same predicament. What a quagmire! Isn't it?

Still, I believe in the "chi" (the force in the universe), and the flowing of water as a metaphor for "the way," rather than believing in a God or pantheism or any spiritual being as almost all Christians in the U.S. do. This is far off the track of this thread, but what the heck, aye? Anyways, I don't consider myself an atheist because I do believe in a spiritual force ("Chi"). Do you understand me now?
 
valich said:
Actually, I just threw that in as a joke, but I'm not so sure about your reply. In a sense, you have to be correct in saying that they always co-existed, but only in the sense that "always" means when we knew when to call a chicken a chicken, and not what a chicken evolved from. And what would we call that? Eggs did evolve. Some vertebrates (fish and jellyfish) that chickens evolved from do not produce eggs when they reproduce. So when eggs evolved they were first enclosures: soft eggs like some fish and amphibians have. Chickens produce hard calcium-encased eggs. There must've be a time when they were first soft eggs, and then a time before that when there were none at all. Maybe we should say: "Never say never."
Click to expand...

My point was that the unfolding of the universe, call it cosmic evolution if you like, is following a process whereby things wink in and out of existence according to the rules of the underlying cosmic process. Anything that we may observe in the Universe has come about because the building blocks have always been part of the universe in one form or another just waiting for the process to get around to processing them, whether they be hard eggs, soft eggs or the atoms that would eventually be organised into either according to whatever rules this process follows. The one thing we do know for a fact is that the rules of the process 'insisted' on organising some atoms into the form of an egg therefore it is impossible to disassemble the egg from the universe.

peace

c20
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
i didnt imply im smarter than anyone here Kensworth, read what i said " we realise we arent as clever as we think" implying that i too am not clever on a universal understandng and grasping all aspects of time and space. and when i said "intelligent society" i meant making in general or am i not allowed to say what i think of mankind?.
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i wasnt refering only to that post,all of your posts so far on this forum have been made as if you were an authority on the subject.
 
There are "rule of the process" in a sense that each living thing has a genetic code that unfolds, but I wouldn't go so far as to say ther "insisted" on organizing the atoms in that way. What about mutations? And if you believe in the Big Bang Theory then you know that the atoms weren't always there. The building blocks weren't always there - life evolved. Random chance mutations and a change in one form of energy or matter or anti-matter or things we don't even know yet into one form or another without any plan, unless you believe in God who had such a plan.

According to Plato's philosophy, all tangible things - chairs, tables, animals, plants - have an ideal form. If that were true then the chicken (the ideal form) came before the egg. I don't think anyone believes in that anymore.

Kenworth, what do you do? Make a living out of going from website to website just cutting people down and actin like a psychotic jerk?
 
valich said:
Kenworth, what do you do? Make a living out of going from website to website just cutting people down and actin like a psychotic jerk?
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my god,why are you following me around?i just graduated from an astrophysics course am working in cfd modelling for a month then going to japan to teach english.you?how am i acting like a psychotic jerk?what i said was meant to be constructive.i doubt he'll take it to heart.
 
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