What about Tiffany?

S

SnakeLord

snakeystew.com
Valued Senior Member
I heard a faint purr. It was my cat Tiffany. having seen the onset of death many times, I took it considerably less painfully than my family did. I have had my cat, Tiffany, for the past eighteen years. She outlived my son, my dog, my 8 other cats, and my pet snakes, (where my internet nick comes from).

She's not quite dead yet, but will be soon. It's an unavoidable step for all of us, be us cat or human.

I know my cat better than I know my son. He died a long time before his 18th, and my cat has been with me for all that time, never sinning, never showing anything but love.

Wasn't thats jesus's whole message, to love one another? She isn't even the same species, and yet not once has she failed when it comes to love. She has done everything jesus asked for and more.

The question is.. Will she go to heaven?

If not, why not? My son didn't even get the chance to obey jesus message, and yet people assure me he will go to heaven. I don't even know him. If I were to go to heaven I would have very little to say to him, but if my cat were there, we would be as old friends.

Some of the more fundamental types among you will consider her as lower than yourself. I beg to differ, and thus far none of you have shown anything above or beyond what she has.

When god says not to judge, you judge - my cat never did. When he says to love - my cat always has, but you lot have chosen when to and when not to.

Tell me, does my cats name appear in the list of those who inherit gods kingdom?

Yes/no and why?

Thanks.
 
It depends, did your cat accept Jesus Christ as her personal saviour?
Is the blood of the lamb upon your kitty?

Perhaps you should have her baptised. I bet if you paid a Catholic enough money, Tiffany would get through those pearly gates.
 
Hi SnakeLord,

You come up with really thoughtfull posts. Yup, questions. I think it`s wonderfull that Tiffany could spend 18 years as a much loved and cared for cat. That could be seen as a gift from god. Hypothetically my thoughts about heaven would be, that no genuinely loving god would create a heaven based on a class system. All life would get to spend eternity in the loving glow of the cosmic energy force. (why do I say loving? because I find love in my being.) And I further would imagine that all living beings who experienced meaningfull interactions on this earthly plane would meet again in this hypothetical heaven. Notwithstanding my opposition to the bizzare guilt trip inflicted upon mankind by mainstream religions, I believe that energy, including the energy that animates us, flows eternally, and thus we will see those we love, in some other place, at some other time, once again. And I think that would include Tiffany. And as you intimated, any belief system or their god, obsessed with judgement and penalties, does not deserve the unconditional love shown by Tiffany.

Ahem.
 
stretched said:
...
no genuinely loving god would create a heaven based on a class system. All life would get to spend eternity in the loving glow of the cosmic energy force.
...
And I further would imagine that all living beings who experienced meaningfull interactions on this earthly plane would meet again in this hypothetical heaven.
...
I believe that energy, including the energy that animates us, flows eternally, and thus we will see those we love, in some other place, at some other time, once again. And I think that would include Tiffany.
Click to expand...

Why do you believe these things?
Simply because you want to?
Because makes life easier to accept with this "benevolent force" in the universe?
Because it makes you feel good?

I am not trying to insult you, I am trying to understand.

What would make you believe that, if there is some driving force behind the goings on in this universe, it would be a benevolent, loving one?
Beyond that, why would you think this "being's" value system would align with yours in any way?
Maybe God despises us.
Maybe he cut us off because of our behavior.

If there is a God...
If he is "good" and his values are correctly depicted in the Abrahamic religions...
If the ten commandments are actually from him...
If I were him, I would have cut us off (or killed us off) long ago.
Maybe this is "tough love" and he has turned his back on his teenagers and left them in jail to learn a lesson.

Maybe God is even evil.

Why do you believe what you believe?
 
Hi one raven,

This may be difficult for you to understand. I do not follow any religion, and I do not believe in any "god". I would not lose sleep if tomorrow science proves that when we die, that is the final end. For me life is for living. Every moment we have is precious, as it could quite concievabely be our last. However, on my path in this life, I have come close to death and had what people call a NDE. (near death experience) I have seen the other side, experienced the light, felt a presence, and saw family and friends that had passed on before. Whether this experience is a kneejerk reaction of the brain shutting down, or the soul leaving the body is debateable. The reality and authenticity to me, of my experience however, has provided me with a lasting sense of peace and a certainty that there is no judgement, only a warm understanding unconditional love force. There are actually no words in the English language to describe the experience, so I seldom repeat it. I have met mystics who have experienced a similar reality via meditation. This experience has also caused me to speak out against organised religion as in my opinion, they have got it SO wrong and it causes much division and needless worry. So that is why at least I believe there is more to this life than meets the eye.

Ahem.
 
Don't worry Snake! God takes care of all animals, so your cat is already in heaven, here on earth.
Because animals don't have as advanced brain as humans, God has better control over them.
-
Din, with her strong flaming arms, cultivated the land to create the earth.
Nayru poured her wisdom onto the earth to give the spirit of law to the
world. Farore's rich soul created all life forms who would uphold the law.
 
SnakeLord,


Where your cat Tiffany goes, after she dies, is, if anything, between her and God.
We don't know what it is like to be a cat, and we also don't know what the relationship is that God has with cats (if there is such a thing). So we shouldn't try to think for them. We can't.

So if you truly love your cat, you will not force your human ways on her life, her departure. She had a cat's life, let her have a cat's death, and let her have a cat's afterlife.



***
I've met many thinkers and many cats, but the wisdom of cats is infinitely superior. -- Hippolyte Taine
 
Cats generally look down on humans, while dogs tend to look up, but a pig will look a human straight in the eye as an equal.

The bible clearly says that the only way to heaven is to accept JC as your personal savior – and since cats can have no comprehension of JC then according to the Christian rules cats can’t reach heaven. The best advice here seems to be to join a different religion – Buddhism is certainly a religion that gives respect to all life and where a loving cat such as yours will likely be re-born as a kindly human in the next cycle.

Christianity tends to see animals as either food or objects for sacrifice – this reflects the attitudes of the early myth makers who created Christianity.

If you are seeking a rational answer based on the assumption that Christianity makes sense then you will never receive such an answer.
 
Cris said:
The best advice here seems to be to join a different religion – Buddhism is certainly a religion that gives respect to all life and where a loving cat such as yours will likely be re-born as a kindly human in the next cycle.
Click to expand...

This would only ease SnakeLord's mind -- but where the cat goes, remains open. It is not like the owner of the cat determines where the cat goes after death ...
 
Water,

This would only ease SnakeLord's mind -- but where the cat goes, remains open. It is not like the owner of the cat determines where the cat goes after death ...
Click to expand...

Religions aren’t about reality only about what you hope reality to be – hence the dependence on faith. Changing your religion solves your problem of what to hope for.

If we are to use reason and available evidence then the best conclusion we can make is that when the cat dies it ceases to exist, i.e. it doesn’t go anywhere. There is no evidence that suggests anything else or any reason to conclude anything else.

So the question of where the cat goes isn’t open but just baseless fantasy.
 
So if you truly love your cat, you will not force your human ways on her life, her departure. She had a cat's life, let her have a cat's death, and let her have a cat's afterlife.
Click to expand...

You seem almost offended by my post. Needless to say, I haven't forced anything upon my cat, but was curious as to how religious people view the death of animals.

Alas it seems most christians and religious people avoid threads that raise questions like this. Perhaps they don't find it important or worth worrying about such a lowly creature.

If you are seeking a rational answer based on the assumption that Christianity makes sense then you will never receive such an answer.
Click to expand...

I'm more than aware of that, but I was somewhat hoping they would answer nonetheless. I'm not religious in the slightest.. never have been, never will be - and I would fully concur with you in stating, that just like man, my cat will just die and decay. Some find that too scary to consider when it comes to humans, but think it's ok for the animals. I just wanted to see someone openly say it :D
 
SnakeLord said:
You seem almost offended by my post. Needless to say, I haven't forced anything upon my cat, but was curious as to how religious people view the death of animals.

Alas it seems most christians and religious people avoid threads that raise questions like this. Perhaps they don't find it important or worth worrying about such a lowly creature.



I'm more than aware of that, but I was somewhat hoping they would answer nonetheless. I'm not religious in the slightest.. never have been, never will be - and I would fully concur with you in stating, that just like man, my cat will just die and decay. Some find that too scary to consider when it comes to humans, but think it's ok for the animals. I just wanted to see someone openly say it :D
Click to expand...


Don't you ever get tired of your cynicism?
 
SnakeLord said:
my cat Tiffany. .. Will she go to heaven?
Click to expand...

The Best Vision and Prophecy I know can be found On Line: "My Brief Experience of Eternity and What I Saw" by Phil Kramer ( the URL is http://www.aculink.net/~catholic/africa.htm )

It is all quite fascinating. He speaks of Judgment Day, and then of Hell, Purgatory and then the Social Structure of Heaven.

Of interest to you is the Heavenly Planet for Beloved Pets.

One of the interesting questions that is resolved by his Vision is the one about how Heaven can still be Heaven if we have to continue to deal with all the obnoxious people who must go to Heaven. Well, he answers that by saying that there are Various Planets for all Character Types -- to Each his Own. But then arises the problem of how people can get to see their 'Loved Ones' who we know for a fact didn't love each other all the time... and in fact irritated each other a great deal, but still wish each other well and indeed DO love each other, even if they would have difficulty in living through Eternity joined at the hip, so to speak. Well, this problem is solved by the Heavenly Institution of Open Travel on Holy Feast Days -- on certain Days all across Heaven, Travel is opened up and allowed between the various Planets so that Loved Ones may visit with each other, or so that the Lesser Spiritual Entities may visit the Higher Spiritual Entities in the Holy City that is usually reserved for only the Highest of the High. On These Days we may go to Pet Heaven and visit our old Kitties, or they may even take advantage of the Open Travel to visit us, if they should think of it.
 
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