What about the other 11 men?
- Thread starter otheadp
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Do you really feel that people don't like Jews because they killed Jesus? What about Pontius Pilate? I don't think that I have ever heard a person say or write a libelous statement regarding the Jews and the crucifixion of Jesus. Let me know if you have anything.
Do you really feel that people don't like Jews because they killed Jesus?
it's one of the reasons
that's what classical anti-Semitism is about. the last half century it's different, but that's what it was before - on religious grounds
it was also the official opinion of the Vatican up to the reforms in the 1960's.
before the reforms, the position re: Jews was that they are collectively responsible for Jesus's death
it just so doesn't make sense!
the Christian churches have been very tolerant and friendly to Judaism as a religion ever since WWII...
what i'm interested in finding out is about the illogical blood libel and how it was rationalized in the past.
the hardcore Christians among us... maybe you could tell me
Wait a minute..Jesus..son of god.....HEY! god is jewish too then!
DUH!!!
it's one of the reasons
that's what classical anti-Semitism is about. the last half century it's different, but that's what it was before - on religious grounds
it was also the official opinion of the Vatican up to the reforms in the 1960's.
before the reforms, the position re: Jews was that they are collectively responsible for Jesus's death
it just so doesn't make sense!
the Christian churches have been very tolerant and friendly to Judaism as a religion ever since WWII...
what i'm interested in finding out is about the illogical blood libel and how it was rationalized in the past.
the hardcore Christians among us... maybe you could tell me
Wait a minute..Jesus..son of god.....HEY! god is jewish too then!
DUH!!!
On amore serious note I remember being a young impressionable boy in the grip of the catholic church and at some point feeling anger toward Jews because they killed my lovely Jesus. I was not brought up in an anti-semetic home so I definately got that from the church, it was not an overt teaching though. So there is something problematic if an innocent can learn to feel anger towards the jews because of church's teaching.
To be fair I also remember other priests later who said it was not the jews fault but rather they played a part in god's plan.
To be fair I also remember other priests later who said it was not the jews fault but rather they played a part in god's plan.
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path,
the "they played a part in God's plan" thing is unsettling. because that separates the "us" from the "them"
the 12 men, including Judas, and Jesus himself, were all Jews. there really is no "us" and "them"
but, as I said, in the past half century the Churches have been very friendly and tolerant to Judaism as a faith. "by killing Jesus they only played a part in God's plan" is better than "they are all Christkillers"
Padma: i actually like Christians. especially the non-secular ones. nice people. but if they (or anyone) belong to the 2nd group in your question, i'll kick their ass
the "they played a part in God's plan" thing is unsettling. because that separates the "us" from the "them"
the 12 men, including Judas, and Jesus himself, were all Jews. there really is no "us" and "them"
but, as I said, in the past half century the Churches have been very friendly and tolerant to Judaism as a faith. "by killing Jesus they only played a part in God's plan" is better than "they are all Christkillers"
Padma: i actually like Christians. especially the non-secular ones. nice people. but if they (or anyone) belong to the 2nd group in your question, i'll kick their ass
I don't reckon people in general hate jews... i mean there aren't any anyway...
I think you guys are missing an important logical point here. If Jesus was the messiah the Jews were waiting for, then why did so few recognise him for who he was?
Either the Jews are right and he isn’t the messiah, in which case Christianity is a heretical cult, or the Christians are right and the Jews of today are those who have failed to see the light, so there must be something wrong with them!
So the reason Jews have been hated by Christians for two thousand years is firstly because their own priests demanded Jesuses death, and secondly because they continue to deny him as their messiah and that can only be because they are stupid, mad, evil or in league with the Devil or some such thing.
The point is that there should only be Christians or Jews, not both.
Either the Jews are right and he isn’t the messiah, in which case Christianity is a heretical cult, or the Christians are right and the Jews of today are those who have failed to see the light, so there must be something wrong with them!
So the reason Jews have been hated by Christians for two thousand years is firstly because their own priests demanded Jesuses death, and secondly because they continue to deny him as their messiah and that can only be because they are stupid, mad, evil or in league with the Devil or some such thing.
The point is that there should only be Christians or Jews, not both.
Clarify what you mean by Jews? Clearly some passages in the Talmud(not mentioning Jesus directly, however) would imply Jesus disgraced his community, died not a Jew.
Unless Christ did not die for us, the killing of Jesus also refers to Christians.
I would not refer to the anti-semitism of Hitler as religious anti-semtism. His hatred was at those who were racially Jews, even converts to Christianity were not spared.
The Vatican cannot change a official opinion.
Well, I think the Church was in a difficult position. At one point we are obligated to stop idolatry, pagan rituals, etc. and the writings in the Tanakh point to this interpretation. When are you obligated to break the idols of someone's Statanic ritual?
Thus, I don't think the anti-semetism at this period was against Jews only but their difference in worship. One could also argue that some of the medieval restrictions forced upon Jews were actually beneficial. Since Jews were not allowed to own land in medeviel Europe, many became merchants and doctors, starting their own businesses.
This may give you some rationale to the mindset at this time. The ordinary Christian would probably be swayed heavily by superstitions and xenophobia.
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/301011.htm
In fact, anti-semitism is not a purely Christian trait, and has many historical reasons other than the simplistic ones mentioned so far in this thread. Historically, hatred of Jews has quite often arisen because of their positions in society. Some people have always resented Jews who are better off than they are, even when that has resulted from honest labour. Such hatred continues today.
Religion is just a convenient excuse, as it so often is.
Religion is just a convenient excuse, as it so often is.
James R said:
SPOT ON!!!
The same scenario exists in the Philippines, Indonesia & Malaysia. Where there exists some resentment of the Chinese minority. Because of the envy & jealousy that the chinese minority are often rich and in positions of great power.
Too bad for jews that european christians found a better excuse for hating them.
They were still thinking it over at the time.
I don't believe the priests would do such a thing. As much as a claim to be the messiah might have annoyed them, they hated the Roman oppressors much more. The christian bible sought to minimize the role of the Romans, because it was largely written and compiled in Rome, by Romans. Pilot was recalled back to Rome later, because he was too brutal and out of control.