Water wars will eclipse war on terror

Mrs.Lucysnow

Valued Senior Member
SANAA, Feb 17 (Reuters) - Yemeni water trader Mohammed al-Tawwa runs his diesel pumps day and night, but gets less and less from his well in Sanaa, which experts say could become the world's first capital city to run dry.

"My well is now 400 metres (1,300 feet) deep and I don't think I can drill any deeper here," said Tawwa, pointing to the meagre flow into tanks that supply water trucks and companies.

From dawn, dozens of people with yellow jerricans collect water from a special canister Tawwa has set aside for the poor.

"Sometimes we don't have any water for a whole week, sometimes for two days and then it stops again," said Talal al-Bahr, who comes almost daily to supply his family of six.

The West frets that al Qaeda will exploit instability in Yemen to prepare new attacks like the failed Dec. 25 bombing of a U.S. airliner, but this impoverished Arabian peninsula country faces a catastrophe that poses a far deadlier long-term threat.

Nature cannot recharge ground water to keep pace with demand from a population of 23 million expected to double in 20 years.

More water is consumed than produced from most of Yemen's 21 aquifers, especially in the highlands, home to big cities like Sanaa, with a fast-growing population of two million, and Taiz.

"If we continue like this, Sanaa will be a ghost city in 20 years," said Anwer Sahooly, a water expert at German development agency GTZ, which runs several water projects in Yemen.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKLAE656628._CH_.2420

Are we paying so much attention to politics du jour that we are unaware that the the world is running out of drinking water? Are we being distracted?

Check out this map put out by the US Department of the Interior, it outlines the areas West in the US where existing supplies of water are inadequate to meet the demands of farms, the environment and its population and where they expect actual conflict by 2025

http://sustainca.org/files/WPuUSA-DOI_2003.jpg

http://sustainca.org/content/potential_water_supply_crisis_2025

Scary isn't it? So what would happen to these populations if water becomes scarce?

Its no longer just a fear for developing countries, it will eventually affect us too.

There needs more dialogue about the environment in regards to water, water privatization, water rights and distribution.

As we have all heard of Australia's drought issues and their need for water, I find interesting is that the US government and probably the Chinese tend not to publicize their concerns and future plans (whatever that may be) to counter act this issue.

China:

Last December, 160,000 residents living along the Qingzhang River in Hebei, north-east China petitioned local government over the construction of a new hydropower station in neighbouring province Shanxi, complaining that it was cover for a new reservoir. They wanted the authorities to call an immediate halt to the project, saying that the Qingzhang River – the lifeblood of the county and its 400,000 inhabitants – would, otherwise, be cut off.

Hebei has been busy building its own reservoirs but a mixture of economic growth, a rising population and years of drought left parts of Hebei suffering from water shortages. And so reservoirs originally intended to prevent flooding were gradually used to supply water to the cities.


"Currently, local governments are fighting to hold onto any water that passes through their borders. Hebei is also vexed about a project planned in Shaanxi, central China, that will divert water from the stretch of the Han River in the south of the province, through the Qinling mountains and into the Wei River, where it will raise water levels and reduce pollution. With such large quantities of water being taken at the upper reaches – and another 10 billion cubic metres from the middle reaches earmarked for Beijing – nobody can predict what kind of conflict will arise."

http://www.chinadialogue.net/article/show/single/en/3520

We may actually be heading into a time where the wars on religion will pale compared to the wars over water.
 
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Water wars in the western US will end when a large earthquake (or some enlightened engineering) sends water from the Pacific Ocean into Death Valley, which is below sea level. A very long pipeline, sloping gently downhill from, say, San Francisco, underground to western Nevada, would turn the desert into a saltwater lake. Could somebody calculate the downwards angle? I'm guessing one percent, just enough to get water flowing downhill into the lowest elevation in the whole US.
 
Water wars in the western US will end when a large earthquake (or some enlightened engineering) sends water from the Pacific Ocean into Death Valley, which is below sea level. A very long pipeline, sloping gently downhill from, say, San Francisco, underground to western Nevada, would turn the desert into a saltwater lake. Could somebody calculate the downwards angle? I'm guessing one percent, just enough to get water flowing downhill into the lowest elevation in the whole US.

Are you suggesting that a saltwater lake could be de-salinated thus serving the purpose?

For your second question I will leave that for a more scientifically minded person than myself to answer. :)
 
Eventually, yes

Personally, I think the water wars are already underway. It's part of the economic driver of disputes. And I've always wondered if maybe water wasn't part of whatever scheme Saddam Hussein was really trying to pull. You know, relocate whole communites, or else just slaughter them, in order to clear a marsh, in order to drain it, in order to ... well, what?

We can replace oil as an energy source. We can also replace it as a lubricant. Replacing water, however, is a much trickier proposition.

Yes, water wars will be huge and vicious. Unless, of course, we start figuring a solution. Half the world lives without a good water supply, and over a billion people have no access to potable water. The center cannot hold, things fall apart.
____________________

Notes:

Sharp, Heather. "Iraq's 'devastated' Marsh Arabs". BBC News Online. March 3, 2003. News.BBC.co.uk. March 30, 2010. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2807821.stm

British Broadcasting Company. "'Billions without clean water'". BBC News Online. March 14, 2000. News.BBC.co.uk. March 30, 2010. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/676064.stm
 
Lucy, it isnt going to happen. In the future there will be too much water, but humans will get used to it. really just like walking in puddles all day long. This wont be for a few hundred years though but coud be 50 year minimum.
 
Cliché for the day

John99 said:

In the future there will be too much water, but humans will get used to it. really just like walking in puddles all day long.

I'll repeat here what has become a cliché:

• The optimist sees the glass as half full.
• The pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
• The realist sees the water in the glass as polluted.​
 
Personally, I think the water wars are already underway. It's part of the economic driver of disputes. And I've always wondered if maybe water wasn't part of whatever scheme Saddam Hussein was really trying to pull. You know, relocate whole communites, or else just slaughter them, in order to clear a marsh, in order to drain it, in order to ... well, what?

We can replace oil as an energy source. We can also replace it as a lubricant. Replacing water, however, is a much trickier proposition.

Yes, water wars will be huge and vicious. Unless, of course, we start figuring a solution. Half the world lives without a good water supply, and over a billion people have no access to potable water. The center cannot hold, things fall apart.
____________________

Notes:

Sharp, Heather. "Iraq's 'devastated' Marsh Arabs". BBC News Online. March 3, 2003. News.BBC.co.uk. March 30, 2010. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2807821.stm

British Broadcasting Company. "'Billions without clean water'". BBC News Online. March 14, 2000. News.BBC.co.uk. March 30, 2010. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/676064.stm

Thanks for the links. I see what you see but I am still researching this issue so I am not so upfront nor confident in my speech concerning the topic, its heavy on the science and I am quite heavy on other aspects of the issue. I'm educating myself and absorbing the HUGE amount of information there is about this.

I just wish I had learned of it earlier. I'm looking for feedback, links, opinions, grass roots orgs etc, anything that I can sink my teeth into.
 
Didn't mean to confuse you

John99 said:

That is not a realist. Where did you get that idea from anyway?

It's an old punch line, at least twenty years old. Maybe even thirty.
 
Sink your teeth into?

Lucy, water comes out of the sky.

Okay check out this documentary:

Blue Gold - World Water Wars

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLp1ZnjsIXc&feature=related

And 'Flow' which you can watch fully:

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/flow-for-love-of-water/

I would also suggest you check out the various articles from this site for information that you can either accept or refute:

http://www.bluegold-worldwaterwars.com/actionplan/news.html

If you have something to refute i would be happy to hear what you have to say.
 
Lucy....yoohoo

:shy:

whooops, there you are.

Darlin all I am asking you to do is take a look at the links I provided and come up with your own opinion for this discussion.

Basically you seem to be as naive as I have been on this issue...or maybe you are not but at least take a look at the material.
 
The worst water wars are, of course, located in places where there isn't much, like the western U.S. I visited the Hoover Dam a few years ago, and was amazed to find that there was barely enough wate flowing through it to keep the turbines occupied. The dam was built to control floods that were occurring on the Colorado River, but now, there's so little water coming from melting snow in the Colorado Mountains that the City of Las Vegas has to impose strict limits on water usage by the biggest casino hotels in the city. Whenever you see video of a Las Vegas hotel with a fountain turned on, the video was taken during the few hours in each day when the fountains are allowed to be turned on, per Las Vegas city ordinances.

BTW, another place that has little water and lots of wars about it is the Middle East. It's one of the ways that Israel tries to control their Palestinian neighbors - denying them water until they cry the Arabian translation of "uncle". I thought that these people wanted to get along, but when one group denies water to another group, there's sure to be bloodshed before large numbers of people die of thirst. That's how bad it can get in some places.
 
Darlin all I am asking you to do is take a look at the links I provided and come up with your own opinion for this discussion.

Basically you seem to be as naive as I have been on this issue...or maybe you are not but at least take a look at the material.

tbh, if i see any water related disasters i think it would be more like the movie 'water world'.

i cant find any charts on precipitation levels but sea levels are rising.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Recent_Sea_Level_Rise.png
 
Maybe instead of going to Mars and other utterly useless shit we should concentrate on industrial desalization...
Otherwise the salt lake>>Dead valley idea is stupid like hell. What's the point? The OP's problem is the lack of sweetwater, not salty one...
 
Maybe instead of going to Mars and other utterly useless shit we should concentrate on industrial desalization...
Otherwise the salt lake>>Dead valley idea is stupid like hell. What's the point? The OP's problem is the lack of sweetwater, not salty one...

Right. This isn't about saltwater but it could be if we consider the drawbacks of desalination:

Critics, however, will point to the high costs of desalination technologies, especially for developing countries, the impracticability and cost of transporting or piping massive amounts of desalinated seawater throughout the interiors of large countries, and the byproduct of concentrated seawater, which some environmentalists have claimed "is a major cause of marine pollution when dumped back into the oceans at high temperatures"

One of the main environmental considerations of ocean water desalination plants is the impact of the open ocean water intakes, especially when co-located with power plants. Many proposed ocean desalination plants' initial plans relied on these intakes despite perpetuating ongoing impacts on marine life. In the United States, due to a recent court ruling under the Clean Water Act, these intakes are no longer viable without reducing mortality, by ninety percent, of the life in the ocean; the plankton, fish eggs and fish larvae.

There are alternatives, including beach wells that eliminate this concern, but require more energy and higher costs while limiting output. Other environmental concerns include air pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from the power plants that provide electricity and/or thermal energy to the desalination plants.

Regardless of the method used, there is always a highly concentrated waste product consisting of everything that was removed from the created fresh water. This is sometimes referred to as brine, which is also a common term for the byproduct of recycled water schemes that is often disposed of in the ocean.

These concentrates are classified by the United States Environmental Protection Agency as industrial wastes. With coastal facilities, it may be possible to return it to the sea without harm if this concentrate does not exceed the normal ocean salinity gradients to which osmoregulators are accustomed. Reverse osmosis, for instance, may require the disposal of waste water with salinity twice that of normal seawater. The benthic community cannot accommodate such an extreme change in salinity and many filter-feeding animals are destroyed by osmotic pressure when such water is returned to the ocean. This presents an increasing problem further inland where one needs to avoid ruining existing fresh water supplies such as ponds, rivers and aquifers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination
 
Since it can be too expensive to transfer the desalinized water, maybe populations will move to the coastal areas...
 
Are you suggesting that a saltwater lake could be de-salinated thus serving the purpose?

Yes, I am. Not the whole lake, but pump some of it into a simple solar still, wait a few days, and you have distilled water, which is drinkable after you do a bit more processing. That spells the end of the drought in the western U.S. as long as the tree-huggers can get used to the idea that their precious desert might get wet.

Distilled water is also suitable for irrigation of crops. Plans don't care whether the water they get has sea salts in it or not.
 
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