UT strips Klansman's name from Austin dorm

[Thoreau]

UT strips Klansman's name from Austin dorm

AUSTIN, Texas – University of Texas regents agreed Thursday to strip the name of a former law school professor and early organizer of the Ku Klux Klan from a campus dormitory.

The dorm named after William Stewart Simkins will now be known as Creekside Residence Hall. The two-story brick building was constructed in the 1950s near Waller Creek.

What do you all think of this?

As I'm sure this will raise holy hell with Tiassa and S.A.M., I think this is rediculous. It's only a name. As a white person, if I was in school and lived in a dorm named "Malcolm X", I wouldn't care. The name and the person is a part of American history. And I find it typical of the left-wingers to do such a thing; always trying to hide or sweep under the rug every little trace of any part of American history that may be offensive; as if that part of history never existed. It's a part of history, whether you like it or not! I say they should keep the name the same. Atleast that way it can serve as a historical reminder. I also say stop with this liberal PC crap. MLK Jr., Malcolm X, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton all said a lot of racist things, but who really cares? I don't hear any white people complaining about it. Maybe that's because we've moved on. Maybe that's because we have more important crap to worry about in this day and age. People are losing their homes, going hungry, losing jobs, crime rates are ever-increasing, and you're worried about a name on a dorm?!? Make a change that matters in this world instead of distracting yourself from reality. You're in school to earn a degree so stop consuming your life with everything else that is hardly relevent.

What say ye?

 

[spidergoat]

Did he go on to do good things like Robert Byrd? If he didn't, then take him off.

 

[Tiassa]

Unless, of course, you're advocating the Klan

As I'm sure this will raise holy hell with Tiassa and S.A.M., I think this is rediculous.

Actually, I don't see why it's a big deal considering that wealthy donors often cause a building to be renamed. Albertson University comes to mind, though it has apparently reverted to its traditional name, College of Idaho. But if I had paid a substantial gift to the university and asked that the dorm be renamed "Austin People's Student Residence", would that be controversial? What if I want it named after me? Or my mother?

All things considered, I don't see the problem. Unless, of course, I want to advocate the Klan.

I also say stop with this liberal PC crap. MLK Jr., Malcolm X, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton all said a lot of racist things, but who really cares? I don't hear any white people complaining about it. Maybe that's because we've moved on.

What do white people have to move on from? I mean, sure, there are always those horrifying memories of the White Man's Burden, having to house all those slaves and work so hard to deny black people their civil rights. But if you ever wonder why some people think you're racist, perhaps you ought to stop and consider that people involved in an unequal relationship view those circumstances differently.

No, really. Being white has never carried the same implications as being black. This fact changes how black and white people look at historical relations:

And if Gates looked like a lawbreaker to James Crowley, well, to me he looks like former Los Angeles Lakers star Jamaal Wilkes, pulled over because the tags on his car were “about to” expire, like clean-shaven, 6-foot-4 businessman Earl Graves Jr. detained by police searching for a mustachioed 5-foot-10 suspect, like Amadou Diallo, executed while reaching for his wallet.

And like me, with hands up and a rifle trained on my chest by an officer who later claimed he stopped me in that predominantly-white neighborhood for a traffic violation.

Because I look like Henry Louis Gates, he looks like Jamaal Wilkes, and we all look like some dangerous, predatory black man intent on mayhem. So there is no shock here — only a sobering reminder that the old canard is, at some level, true.

We all look alike.

(Pitts)​

It still goes on today, and what is a white person's role in that equation? Are they the ones being pulled over because their license tags aren't actually expired yet? Are they the ones with rifles pointed at them for alleged simple traffic violations? What, exactly, have white people moved on from? Their sense of guilt? Their recognition of racism in America?

Really, what?
____________________

Notes:

Pitts Jr., Leondard. "Looking but not seeing". The Miami Herald. July 26, 2009. MiamiHerald.com. July 15, 2010. http://www.miamiherald.com/2009/07/25/1156989/looking-but-not-seeing.html

 

[Thoreau]

Actually, I don't see why it's a big deal considering that wealthy donors often cause a building to be renamed. Albertson University comes to mind, though it has apparently reverted to its traditional name, College of Idaho. But if I had paid a substantial gift to the university and asked that the dorm be renamed "Austin People's Student Residence", would that be controversial? What if I want it named after me? Or my mother?

All things considered, I don't see the problem. Unless, of course, I want to advocate the Klan.



What do white people have to move on from? I mean, sure, there are always those horrifying memories of the White Man's Burden, having to house all those slaves and work so hard to deny black people their civil rights. But if you ever wonder why some people think you're racist, perhaps you ought to stop and consider that people involved in an unequal relationship view those circumstances differently.

No, really. Being white has never carried the same implications as being black. This fact changes how black and white people look at historical relations:

And if Gates looked like a lawbreaker to James Crowley, well, to me he looks like former Los Angeles Lakers star Jamaal Wilkes, pulled over because the tags on his car were “about to” expire, like clean-shaven, 6-foot-4 businessman Earl Graves Jr. detained by police searching for a mustachioed 5-foot-10 suspect, like Amadou Diallo, executed while reaching for his wallet.

And like me, with hands up and a rifle trained on my chest by an officer who later claimed he stopped me in that predominantly-white neighborhood for a traffic violation.

Because I look like Henry Louis Gates, he looks like Jamaal Wilkes, and we all look like some dangerous, predatory black man intent on mayhem. So there is no shock here — only a sobering reminder that the old canard is, at some level, true.

We all look alike.

(Pitts)​

It still goes on today, and what is a white person's role in that equation? Are they the ones being pulled over because their license tags aren't actually expired yet? Are they the ones with rifles pointed at them for alleged simple traffic violations? What, exactly, have white people moved on from? Their sense of guilt? Their recognition of racism in America?

Really, what?

____________________

Notes:

Pitts Jr., Leondard. "Looking but not seeing". The Miami Herald. July 26, 2009. MiamiHerald.com. July 15, 2010. http://www.miamiherald.com/2009/07/25/1156989/looking-but-not-seeing.html

Ok first of all, if you're going to talk about treatment from the police, lets throw out some numbers here...

Total US Population = 307,006,550 (100%)
Total White (non-latino) US Population = 201,396,296 (65.6%)
Total Black US Population = 39,296,838

Total Prison Population = 2,424,279 (100%)
Total White Prison Population = 810,678 (33.44%)
Total Black Prison Population = 974,802 (40.21%)

Total White US Pop in Prison = 0.40%
Total Black US Pop in Prison = 2.48%

Do you not realize that blacks are 6.2 times more likely to end up in prison than whites are?

Do you realize that if they had the same population numbers as whites that there would be 4,996,422 blacks in prison?

Furthermore, whites commit only 7.60% of the homicides against blacks whereas blacks commit 13.80% of the homcides against whites?

So, if there are any implications of "being black", it seems to me that it is self-imposed and deserved by the black community. If it was whites doing most of the crime, trust me, I'd be the first to move into an all black/asian/whatever neighborhood - and I certainly wouldn't get upset if a police officer stopped me. It comes with the territory. If the black community isn't satisfied with the their treatment, maybe they should change their behavior and earn better treatment. :shrug:

But that is aside from the point of the main discussion; I just wanted to clarify a few things before we continue.

__________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#Prison_population

 

[Pandaemoni]

Ok first of all, if you're going to talk about treatment from the police, lets throw out some numbers here...

Total US Population = 307,006,550 (100%)
Total White (non-latino) US Population = 201,396,296 (65.6%)
Total Black US Population = 39,296,838

Total Prison Population = 2,424,279 (100%)
Total White Prison Population = 810,678 (33.44%)
Total Black Prison Population = 974,802 (40.21%)

Total White US Pop in Prison = 0.40%
Total Black US Pop in Prison = 2.48%

Do you not realize that blacks are 6.2 times more likely to end up in prison than whites are?

Do you realize that if they had the same population numbers as whites that there would be 4,996,422 blacks in prison?

Furthermore, whites commit only 7.60% of the homicides against blacks whereas blacks commit 13.80% of the homcides against whites?

So, if there are any implications of "being black", it seems to me that it is self-imposed and deserved by the black community. If it was whites doing most of the crime, trust me, I'd be the first to move into an all black/asian/whatever neighborhood - and I certainly wouldn't get upset if a police officer stopped me. It comes with the territory. If the black community isn't satisfied with the their treatment, maybe they should change their behavior and earn better treatment. :shrug:

But that is aside from the point of the main discussion; I just wanted to clarify a few things before we continue.

__________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#Prison_population

Your post reads a bit like "Oh yeah? Well my anti-black bias is well justified!" I agree it is an aside, as even if your apprehension about blacks is reasonable, it's still not clear that we should name a building after a Klansman, given that the Klan was/is an anti-black domestic terrorist group.

In fact, racism aside, should we not be circumspect in honoring the names of those affiliated with terrorists? I generally agree with the Spidergoat, that whether we honor him depends on what he has done in total, but KKK leadership is on the negative side of the equation, no matter how many blacks are in prison.

 

[Thoreau]

I don't really see it as honor. I see it as history. Why do we keep trying to hide our own history????

 

[spidergoat]

You did nothing to "clarify" the situation of blacks in America. It had been our extremely flawed policy to group all the poor people together in ghettos and "projects". This had the effect of institutionalizing generational poverty. Those areas had a lower tax base and thus poor schools, they were easily targeted by drug gangs, they had no health care... so the problem is far more complex than statistics can portray.

The role of a university is both to teach and present proper role models for students and society in general. Even the architecture should reflect the value that we as a society place on education. It is not appropriate to have a role model that founded the Florida KKK. I would argue it's not even appropriate to have a role model that fought for the South in the civil war, as they were attempting to destroy the union and keep slavery going forever.

 

[Tiassa]

It would behoove you to drop the supremacist campaign

Ok first of all, if you're going to talk about treatment from the police, lets throw out some numbers here...

So let me get this straight: Your response to ... what, an inquiry about renaming buildings in response to donations, or, more likely, what exactly white people have moved on from, is to call up a bunch of statistics explaining what's wrong with black people?

Just, you know, to clarify. Because it's a rather strange point.

If the black community isn't satisfied with the their treatment, maybe they should change their behavior and earn better treatment.

So you're suggesting that one person should be held accountable for another person's actions just because they're both black?

Have you ever heard of the Fourteenth Amendment?

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.​

It would seem the United States Constitution, the supreme law of the land in this country, disagrees with your assertion that blacks should have to earn their rights.

In truth, it's hard to know what to make of your response. To the one, I tend toward free expression. To the other, though, I have an obligation to suppress hate speech, bigotry, and pointless trolling. Presently, I find myself wondering if I should put on my green hat, borrow a line or two from one of my colleagues, and tell you to go somewhere else to play and that any further bullshit on your part will be considered trolling.

After all, if we look back to your response to people who think you're racist, I can only wonder what anyone is supposed to think. To the one, you don't like being viewed as racist; to the other, you start threads like this advocating the Ku Klux Klan, and then go on to tell everyone what's wrong with black people while asserting that they haven't earned the constitutional rights that are, by default, everyone's.

So how about, as an alternative, you try posting something useful?

Don't wonder why people think you're racist, and don't complain when they call you out on the obvious.
____________________

Notes:

United States Constitution. Legal Information Institute at Cornell University Law School. July 16, 2010. http://topics.law.cornell.edu/constitution

 

[Pandaemoni]

I don't really see it as honor. I see it as history. Why do we keep trying to hide our own history????

Of course we name buildings as an honor. There are no "Benedict Arnold" buildings in America. Timothy McVeigh is never getting a high school names after him. Nor Hitler. They are all legitimate topics of historical interest, and none of them is getting any dorm buildings named after them.

Add to that that the naming of university buildings is not usually based on the need to preserve history, as many are named after, historically-speaking, nobodies. We typically name buildings after donors, as a way of stroking their egos.

Further, not having a UT dormatory named for him hardly hides him from historical view...and if it does hide him then what about all the other historically significant Texans who do not have dorms named after them? Why do we "hide" our history in their cases? In fact, maybe it's time to give one of those hidden Texans his or her due and name the building after some other currently obscure historical figure.

 

[pjdude1219]

Ok first of all, if you're going to talk about treatment from the police, lets throw out some numbers here...

Total US Population = 307,006,550 (100%)
Total White (non-latino) US Population = 201,396,296 (65.6%)
Total Black US Population = 39,296,838

Total Prison Population = 2,424,279 (100%)
Total White Prison Population = 810,678 (33.44%)
Total Black Prison Population = 974,802 (40.21%)

Total White US Pop in Prison = 0.40%
Total Black US Pop in Prison = 2.48%

Do you not realize that blacks are 6.2 times more likely to end up in prison than whites are?

Do you realize that if they had the same population numbers as whites that there would be 4,996,422 blacks in prison?

Furthermore, whites commit only 7.60% of the homicides against blacks whereas blacks commit 13.80% of the homcides against whites?

So, if there are any implications of "being black", it seems to me that it is self-imposed and deserved by the black community. If it was whites doing most of the crime, trust me, I'd be the first to move into an all black/asian/whatever neighborhood - and I certainly wouldn't get upset if a police officer stopped me. It comes with the territory. If the black community isn't satisfied with the their treatment, maybe they should change their behavior and earn better treatment. :shrug:

But that is aside from the point of the main discussion; I just wanted to clarify a few things before we continue.

__________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#Prison_population

um whites do do most of the crime. their just less likely to go to prison for for it. as for your murder stats its randomly speaking its should be far more likely that a black person kills a white person than the reverse because their are more white people than black people

also note that across the country wide population there is a 43% chance both criminal and victim will be white while the percentage of both being black are .61% in other words whites are 70.5 times more likely to have their victim be the same race as as them than black people based purely on country wide population


these numbers are also as irrelevant to the points we're trying to make because both ignore variables.

 

[cosmictraveler]

um whites do do most of the crime. their just less likely to go to prison for for it

Now that's a very hard statistic to prove, can you provide a link to where you get that fact from or are you just voicing an opinion?

it should be far more likely that a black person kills a white person than the reverse because their are more white people than black people

Actually you are only giving us your opinion because you do not provide any facts or links to back up what you are saying. The statistics I've seen shows that blacks kill their own allot more than visa versa.

 

[pjdude1219]

Now that's a very hard statistic to prove, can you provide a link to where you get that fact from or are you just voicing an opinion?





Actually you are only giving us your opinion because you do not provide any facts or links to back up what you are saying. The statistics I've seen shows that blacks kill their own allot more than visa versa.

reread post ahead of yours

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

um whites do do most of the crime. their just less likely to go to prison for for it.

In some types of "crimes," the rate for Euro-Americans and Afro-Americans is identical, yet Euro-Americans are far less likely to be punished.

For example, it's been determined consistently that the rate of illegal drug use is virtually identical in both communities. But an Afro-American drug user is twice as likely to be arrested as a Euro-American. And once arrested, he's twice as likely to go to prison. So Afro-Americans are incarcerated at four times our rate.

A lot of us think one of the main reasons drugs are still illegal is that it gives them such an easy excuse to bust black people.