US warships frightened by Iranian boats; War of Terror; US foreign policy, etc...

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There is no cure for stupidity

Where are the victims of cluster bombs listed?

Where are the victims from US air raids listed?

, 59,787 pounds of cluster bombs have rained upon Iraq since April 2003; the Air Force dropped 111,000 pounds of bombs over Iraq in 2006 over a span of 10, 519 "close air support missions." This figure does not include all the other types of weapons and munitions dropped over Iraq, as well as some Army, Marine and private security contractors' operations. Overall, an average of 75 to 100 airstrikes are carried out in the 2 countries everyday by the U.S.
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http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2007/09/5612_us_air_raids_in.html
 
buffalo said:
Reality is the Video, that shows it was your terrorist heros who were the cause of the action and using the houses cover in a ambush.
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I can't find that video. Got a link ?
 
S.A.M. said:
There is no cure for stupidity

Where are the victims of cluster bombs listed?

Where are the victims from US air raids listed?
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Hey I totally, agree. Like I said, I can't wait to see how the Chinese deal with the ME.
 
Sorry to bring this thread back on topic but the DOD has released a video of the incident. Click on "Strait of Hormuz confrontation":

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/01/07/starr.iran.us.warships.cnn

If you look, you can see a few of the boats travel well inside the stern wave of the destroyer that the camera is onboard. It might not seem that close, but in terms of naval warfare in the littorals, that is "knife fight in a phonebooth" close. If you're within a few thousand yards of somebody you can pretty much spit in their eye. We have had these little spats of brinksmanship with the IRGC in the SoH many times before, but I don't remember one ever being publicized like this. That said, I'm still rather surprised that the commander of the task element didn't go weapons free and light these idiots up. Pulling a stunt like this where you charge a convoy and dump stuff in the water in front of them is a good way to elicit an unsurvivable response, especially after the changes of force protection doctrine since the Cole was bombed.

I don't think it is all that significant, though. The 20th anniversary of Operation Praying Mantis is in a few months. The Iranians surely haven't forgotten who lost that one.
 
I surprised there isn't some sort of way to deal with the speedboats that didn't involve blowing them up. Like punching a hole in the bottom without exploding the boat?
 
sandy
“
Originally Posted by stretched
"Hostile" Iranian Ships Hyped By War-Hungry Neo-Cons On Eve Of Bush Trip"
(http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...nian_ships.htm)...
Sweet dreams y`all.
”
That is the biggest spin I have seen in years. More kool-aid to go with the tin foil hat?
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Time will tell Sandy girl. There`s a hard rains a gonna fall. You can be sure of that. But who consoles the mother who lost her son? :(
 
S.A.M. said:
There is no cure for stupidity

Where are the victims of cluster bombs listed?

Where are the victims from US air raids listed?



http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2007/09/5612_us_air_raids_in.html
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Yes there is no cure for terminal stupidity, SpAM the site list the cause of death, Car Bomb, Shooting, Torture, and if you would have cared to notice that the list contained casualties caused by Coalition Troops, for the date listed 131 caused by terrorist action, 7 by U.S. troops.

SpAM and her Team of Terrorist 131

Buffalo and Coalition Troops 07

It goes on page after page after page with the same results, Terrorist are the ones who are responsable for 90+% of the casuelties today and for

4-yr-old killed on way to school, TikritIBC Incident x178
Type roadside bomb
Deaths recorded 1

Targeted or hit 'US armoured vehicles'; 4-year-old hit
Place outside US army base, Tikrit
Date and time 16 October 2003, AM
Sources REU 16 Oct
AP 16 Oct

Individuals for whom personal or identifying details were reported
IBC page Identifying details (number if more than one) Age Sex
x178-ds112 Jihan Omran 4 Female
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They had top get that Armored Personnel Carrier, they couldn't let it pass by.


Terrorist action, how many do you want me to look up and post?

9-11 by mortar shell which hit Baquba town squareIBC Incident x161
Type mortar blast
Deaths recorded 9-11

Targeted or hit 'probably' US base less than 300m away
Place market square in Baquba
Date and time 25 September 2003, 9:00 PM
Sources CT 27 Sep
LAT 27 Sep
WP 27 Sep
MN 27 Sep

Neither personal nor demographic information was reported for the people killed in this IBC entry.
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Terrorist who couldn't handle a mortar.

10-yr-old boy by grenade near town hall, MosulIBC Incident x211
Type hand grenade
Deaths recorded 1

Targeted or hit 'two U.S. vehicles' - ten-year-old boy killed
Place Mosul town centre
Date 5 November 2003
Sources AP 05 Nov
REU 05 Nov

Individuals for whom only demographic or other non-personal information was reported
Number killed Occupation Age Sex
1 Unrecorded 10 Male

Only demographic information, without any identifying details, was available for the person recorded killed.
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3 - 4 in marketplace bomb, New BaghdadIBC Incident x247
Type landmine
Deaths recorded 3-4

Targeted or hit 'target appeared to have been a patrol of US Humvees'
Place near al-Samarrai mosque, south east Baghdad
Date and time 5 December 2003, 9:30 AM
Sources AFP 05 Dec
LAT 06 Dec
Times 05 Dec
REU 05 Dec

Individuals for whom only demographic or other non-personal information was reported
Number killed Occupation Age Sex
1 Guard 20 Male
1 Unrecorded 40-49 Female
1 Unrecorded 45 Male

Only demographic information, without any identifying details, was available for 3 people recorded killed.

Neither personal nor demographic information was reported for up to one more person killed in this IBC entry.
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five laundry women nr. US base at HabbaniyahIBC Incident x318
Type gunfire
Deaths recorded 5

Targeted or hit minibus carrying laundry women to work at US base
Place road between Habbaniyah and Fallujah
Date 21 January 2004
Sources AFP 22 Jan
AP 22 Jan
AFP 23 Jan
MEO 23 Jan

Individuals for whom personal or identifying details were reported
IBC page Identifying details (number if more than one) Age Sex
x318-ec290 Nadia Shaba Adult Female
x318-dw233 Askhik Varojan Adult Female
x318-zx151 Sona Noubar Adult Female

Individuals for whom only demographic or other non-personal information was reported
Number killed Occupation Age Sex
2 Laundry worker Adult Female

Of the 5 deaths recorded here, some personal information was reported for 3 of the dead.

Only demographic information, without any identifying details, was available for 2 other people recorded killed.
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The list give date and year cause of death, numbers and who they were.

Yes SpAM, it is your Brothers in Terror who are winning this count, 131 to 7, we in the west just don't compare with the the Jihadi terrorist in the killing or should I say murder of Iraqis, Your brothers in arms, the side you cheer on, yes SpAM, how clean are your hands, you excuse every action that they commit, so again how clean are your hands?
 
Come on, these guys would probably take SAM out just as quickly as they'd take out you or I. Also, lets not forget that the founding fathers in the USA were called "terrorists" by the British.

Lastly, the truth is as we surely can all see, this war is about oil, yes the USA would like to have a USA friendly democratically elected Iraqi government but if they can't have that then they'd settle with a USA friendly puppet government.

I wonder BF, if 50.1% of Iraqis democratically elected a Theocratic Shia government - would YOU support it. Would our brothers blood have been worth it?
 
Michael said:
Come on, these guys would probably take SAM out just as quickly as they'd take out you or I. Also, lets not forget that the founding fathers in the USA were called "terrorists" by the British.

Lastly, the truth is as we surely can all see, this war is about oil, yes the USA would like to have a USA friendly democratically elected Iraqi government but if they can't have that then they'd settle with a USA friendly puppet government.

I wonder BF, if 50.1% of Iraqis democratically elected a Theocratic Shia government - would YOU support it. Would our brothers blood have been worth it?
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Why would I have to support it? it wouldn't be my government, as for support from our government, It would be the actions of that government that would be the determining factor as to wether it should be supported or not, if it was set on bringing the apocalypse, to world would you support it?
 
S.A.M. said:
That is really funny, coming from an American

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3CmXGKXOmk

:roflmao:
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But rooted in the Shiite ideology of martyrdom and violence, the Hojjatieh sect adds messianic and apocalyptic elements to an already volatile theology. They believe that chaos and bloodshed must precede the return of the 12th Imam, called the Mahdi. But unlike the biblical apocalypse, where the return of Jesus is preceded by waves of divinely decreed natural disasters, the summoning of the Mahdi through chaos and violence is wholly in the realm of human action. The Hojjatieh faith puts inordinate stress on the human ability to direct divinely appointed events. By creating the apocalyptic chaos, the Hojjatiehs believe it is entirely in the power of believers to affect the Mahdi’s reappearance, the institution of Islamic government worldwide, and the destruction of all competing faiths.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has clearly indicated that he is a true believer in this faith. It has been reported that he has told confidants that he anticipates the immanent return of the Mahdi. When he previously served as Mayor of Tehran, he advocated for widening the roads to accommodate the Mahdi’s triumphal entry into the city. One of his first acts of office as President was to dedicate approximately $20 million to the restoration and improvement of the mosque at Jamkaran, where the Mahdi is claimed to dwell.



This personal belief directs his official policies as President. He has publicly said, “Our revolution’s main mission is to pave the way for the reappearance of the 12th Imam, the Mahdi. We should define our economic, cultural and political policies on the policy of the Imam Mahdi’s return.”
 
Michael said:
if 50.1% of Iraqis democratically elected a Theocratic Shia government - would YOU support it. Would our brothers blood have been worth it?
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In principle
A people first has to have their own renaissance before they're ready for a normal democratic regime. Imposing it on a savage people won't make it democratic. The danger, of course, is that the savages, who are prone to violent revolutions, will just overturn the elected government if they don't like it. That's why "democracy" and "the rule of law" are mentioned in one senence. You have to respect the rule of law even if you don't like it, and savages don't do that.

But in reality
The theory goes that eventually, as the savages get more familiar with the concept and workings of democracy, even if it's their special brand of it, their level of barbarity will go down, and their respect for the rule of law (and not for the iron fist) will go up. That's what will eventually happen if a nutjob government is democratically elected.

By the way, a mullocracy like in Tehran is not a democracy. So if the people will elect a dictatorship, that is not good enough. The parliamentary system must be representative of the different population segments that exist in Iraq. In Iran, Khameini's regime regularly disqualifies over 30% of elections candidates, and at the time of Khatami, he regularly overruled his decisions - in private or in public. That is not democracy, and if something like that comes to Iraq then it will not be satisfactory. I mean, the results won't be obvious at first, but with time (e.g. 1 year) it will be, and if it's not a democracy then it will have to go.
 
Michael said:
Also, lets not forget that the founding fathers in the USA were called "terrorists" by the British.
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So how many founding fathers destroyed schools and other public buildings, killed children (of the country they are fighting for), etc while they fought for their freedom?
 
Harnu said:
So how many founding fathers destroyed schools and other public buildings, killed children (of the country they are fighting for), etc while they fought for their freedom?
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Zero.
All they did was stop paying taxes to the British, and then fight back the invasion.
 
S.A.M. said:
Its amazing how cowardly the Americans are without their gadgets and buttons to give them distance and safety.
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Cowardly is India not invading or nuking Pakistan.

America has bested Germany, Russia, Japan, Iraq, Afghanistan, et al.

What has India bested lately?

Not poverty. Not class conflict. Not unnecessary procreation.

Thanks for another attempt to lecture the rest of us why we're so much worse than your own sorry existences.

Not our fault. Not our problem.

Darwin knew humor.
 
otheadp said:
In principle
A people first has to have their own renaissance before they're ready for a normal democratic regime.
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I've been wondering if the European Renaissance was sparked by the black plague. Are we the ME's Black Plague?
 
Harnu said:
So how many founding fathers destroyed schools and other public buildings, killed children (of the country they are fighting for), etc while they fought for their freedom?
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No - but they did own and f*ck their slaves. I think mainly they were named terrorists by the British for not paying tax and of course for killing Englishmen.

You see back then it was fine to kill and f*ck slaves. Well, maybe not fine, but certainly no where nearly as bad as not paying the King his dues. I mean come on, can you imagine if you didn't pay your Federal Income Tax today? You'd be in jail tomorrow. If you led a bunch of people to do the same - you'd be a terrorist.

Anyway, yup, slave weren't human - they were property. Not to mention the 100 million or so native Americans women and children that were murdered ... yup, the people of the British colonies and the Early republic did kill a LOT of women and children - I'm 100% positive they'd be considered evil terrorists by today's standards.
 
We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.

--Benjamin Franklin, July 4, 1776.
 
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