Universal spirituality

D

dattaswami

Banned
Banned
Spiritual Knowledge - Concepts Of Science

Science is the logical analysis of the items existing in this creation based on only one authority that is perception (Pratyaksha Pramanam). Even in the ancient logic, all the authorities (Pramanas) are based on perception only. You see the fire giving smoke. This is deduction or perception. When you see the smoke coming from a distance and do not see the fire, you say that fire exists there and this is induction or inference (Anumana Pramanam). But this induction is based on your previous deduction only. Somebody says to you that fire gives smoke. If that person is your dearest, you believe it and infer the fire from the smoke. This is authority of word ‘Shabdha Pramanam’.

Though you have not seen the fire, your dearest person has seen the smoke coming from fire. Like this all the authorities are based on perception only. I do not find any scripture of any Religion, which contradicts the experience of perception. There are four ways of authority. 1) Sruthi, which is the original scripture. 2) Smrithi, which is the commentaries of Scholars on the original scripture. 3) Yukthi, the logical analysis based on deduction, induction etc., 4) Anubhava, the experience based on the perception of the items in this world, which may be direct or indirect. Out of these four ways, the fourth way is the most powerful. If anything contradicts the fourth way, that is not valid or it may be a misinterpretation based on misunderstanding of the Sruthi or Smrithi or Yukthi. Thus Science and Philosophy are not separate. The very frame of the spiritual knowledge is Science only. Thus Science is the basic foundation and over all underlying structure of all the Scriptures.

A true Scientist should always stand on the perception and should not deny the experience derived by perception. If he denies, he is not a scientist. All top most scientists were philosophers and spiritual people only. Those scientists have travelled along the river of Science and reached its end, which is the ocean of spiritual knowledge called as philosophy. Philosophy is pervading all the branches of Science. Every branch of Science gives Ph.D as the final degree. Ph.D means Doctor in Philosophy. If Science and Philosophy are different, why this word Philosophy is regarded so much by all the branches of Science? Philosophy means the essence of the knowledge of every branch that is experienced when one reaches the end of that branch.

Therefore, the spiritual knowledge, which is the ocean is the Philosophy in which all branches of Science and all the Religions merge and loose their identity. A scientist who has not reached the end of Science and who is still travelling in the river only denies the existence of the ocean, since he is still perceiving the limiting boundaries of his knowledge – river. Such river-travellers are called as atheists. They neither see the ocean nor see the other rivers. Even the follower of any particular Religion is in the state of this atheist only. He is no better than these atheists because he believes that God is a particular form only, which is a small part of this creation. Some other followers believe God as formless, who is the all-pervading cosmic energy. Since cosmic energy is also a part of the creation, their form of God is very big. These atheist-scientist believe that this creation is God. Thus all these are atheists only. All these atheists, who may be scientific atheists or religious atheists, will realize the true nature of God only when they reach the end of the Science or Religion.

A scientific atheist is contradicting his own authority, which is the perception. When the human incarnation performs the inexplicable miracles, how can they deny the perception of such miracles? You may do that miracle in an alternative way, but that does not contradict the different path of the original miracle. One may get first class by copying. Such false first class cannot contradict the genuine first class. The result is same, but the process is different. You may produce ash by putting a fine powder of wet salt in the grews of your hand like a magician. The same ash may be produced by a divine miracle also. Since the result is same, can you argue that the process also should be same? Since the first class result is same in the case of the original student and a fraud student, do you mean that the hard work of the original student is fraud?

Do you mean that the original and fraud students are one and the same? Therefore, the same result can have two different processes. Since the result is same, processes need not be same. Do you mean that a result has only one process? Is it not contradicting the very fundamentals of Science? A Chemical compound can be produced in several ways (Hess Law). Since the compound is same, do you mean that the alternative reactions are also one and the same? Same Chennai city can be reached by several ways. Since the end City is same, do you mean that all the paths are not different? Do you mean that all the paths are merged as one path only and thus there is only one path to reach the Chennai city? Therefore, conservative scientists and conservative religious followers can be categorized as immature analysts. The immaturity indicates their position in the river and maturity indicates their position in the end of the river, which is the ocean. Einstein, Newton, Heisenberg etc., are the top most scientists who have travelled and travelled along the Science River and reached the final spiritual ocean.

At Thy Lotus Feet

Anil Antony

www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org
 
Convincing Atheist

The logic of atheists is based on perception (Pratyaksha Pramana), which was propagated by the sage Charvaka. Perception means the knowledge derived from the observation with the naked eyes. In fact in the logic (Tarka Sastra) all the means of knowledge are based on perception only. In the inference (Anumana) also, the fire on the hill is inferred by its smoke. But the relationship between the fire and smoke is perceived with the naked eyes only. Similarly other means of knowledge are also based on the perception only. Thus Charvaka forms the basic of the entire logic and without logic there is no knowledge. The statement that the God is above logic must be proved only by perception. The divine miracles performed by the human form of Lord prove that there is a power above the logic. These miracles are seen by the naked eyes. The atheists must be allowed to prove whether the miracles are simply magic tricks. When they cannot prove, they must accept the existence of super power above the logic. If they do not accept this they are contradicting their own basis, which is the perception. The divine miracles are experienced by the devotees and the experience cannot be contradicted. If the experience is contradicted, the experience of the atheists is also contradicted. Therefore atheists must be open-minded and should not be conservative. If they are conservative they have no right to criticize the religious conservatism.

The theory of Vedas and Bhagavath Gita never contradicts the perception and therefore the logic of atheists becomes the basis of the spiritual knowledge. The Lord comes in human form and this human form is perceived by the naked eyes. Even the miracles performed by demons establish the existence of super power. Therefore to convince the atheists the miracles of the Lord are not necessary. When they are convinced about the existence of the Super power (Maya), the possessor of the Super Power, the Lord, coming in human form must be also accepted because the form is seen by the naked eyes. The salvation is breakage of the bonds in this world. Since the bonds of this world exist based on the perception, the salvation is also existing based on the perception. Since the family members and the money are perceived by the eyes, the bonds with them are also perceived. Thus the salvation (Moksha) must be accepted by the atheists. A single bond with the human form of the Lord is called ‘Saayujya’ or ‘Kaivalya’. Since the human form is perceived, Sayujya or Kaivalya is also perceived and must be accepted by the atheists. The Bliss is derived by the devotee from the divine knowledge of the human form of the Lord. Therefore the Bliss is also true according to atheists. Thus the goal, the means to please the Lord (Sadhana) and the fruit of Sadhana (Moksha and Kaivalya) are perceived and exist in this world itself. Veda says ‘Yat Saakshat Aparokshaat’, ‘Pratyagatmana Maikshat’ which mean that the Lord in human form is perceived by the naked eyes. Veda also says ‘Ihachet Avedeet’, which means that everything is true as seen in this world itself. This is called ‘Jeevanmukthi’, which means attaining the salvation while one is alive and not after death. The salvation after the death is not true because that has no basis of perception. Thus if the atheists are little bit patient and leave their aggressive nature of criticism, they are best fitted in the true spiritual knowledge of Vedas. In fact Swami Vidyaranya included the philosophy of Charvaka in his book as one of the logical philosophies (Darsanaas).

At Thy Lotus Feet

Anil Antony

www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org
 
dattaswami said:
The logic of atheists is based on perception (Pratyaksha Pramana), which was propagated by the sage Charvaka. Perception means the knowledge derived from the observation with the naked eyes. In fact in the logic (Tarka Sastra) all the means of knowledge are based on perception only. In the inference (Anumana) also, the fire on the hill is inferred by its smoke. But the relationship between the fire and smoke is perceived with the naked eyes only. Similarly other means of knowledge are also based on the perception only. Thus Charvaka forms the basic of the entire logic and without logic there is no knowledge. The statement that the God is above logic must be proved only by perception. The divine miracles performed by the human form of Lord prove that there is a power above the logic. These miracles are seen by the naked eyes. The atheists must be allowed to prove whether the miracles are simply magic tricks. When they cannot prove, they must accept the existence of super power above the logic. If they do not accept this they are contradicting their own basis, which is the perception. The divine miracles are experienced by the devotees and the experience cannot be contradicted. If the experience is contradicted, the experience of the atheists is also contradicted. Therefore atheists must be open-minded and should not be conservative. If they are conservative they have no right to criticize the religious conservatism.

The theory of Vedas and Bhagavath Gita never contradicts the perception and therefore the logic of atheists becomes the basis of the spiritual knowledge. The Lord comes in human form and this human form is perceived by the naked eyes. Even the miracles performed by demons establish the existence of super power. Therefore to convince the atheists the miracles of the Lord are not necessary. When they are convinced about the existence of the Super power (Maya), the possessor of the Super Power, the Lord, coming in human form must be also accepted because the form is seen by the naked eyes. The salvation is breakage of the bonds in this world. Since the bonds of this world exist based on the perception, the salvation is also existing based on the perception. Since the family members and the money are perceived by the eyes, the bonds with them are also perceived. Thus the salvation (Moksha) must be accepted by the atheists. A single bond with the human form of the Lord is called ‘Saayujya’ or ‘Kaivalya’. Since the human form is perceived, Sayujya or Kaivalya is also perceived and must be accepted by the atheists. The Bliss is derived by the devotee from the divine knowledge of the human form of the Lord. Therefore the Bliss is also true according to atheists. Thus the goal, the means to please the Lord (Sadhana) and the fruit of Sadhana (Moksha and Kaivalya) are perceived and exist in this world itself. Veda says ‘Yat Saakshat Aparokshaat’, ‘Pratyagatmana Maikshat’ which mean that the Lord in human form is perceived by the naked eyes. Veda also says ‘Ihachet Avedeet’, which means that everything is true as seen in this world itself. This is called ‘Jeevanmukthi’, which means attaining the salvation while one is alive and not after death. The salvation after the death is not true because that has no basis of perception. Thus if the atheists are little bit patient and leave their aggressive nature of criticism, they are best fitted in the true spiritual knowledge of Vedas. In fact Swami Vidyaranya included the philosophy of Charvaka in his book as one of the logical philosophies (Darsanaas).

At Thy Lotus Feet

Anil Antony

www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org
Click to expand...


perception is not always reality.it has turned out not to be this way before.
 
charles cure said:
perception is not always reality.it has turned out not to be this way before.
Click to expand...
Hence we get claims of miracles:

Turning water into wine:
Which scenario is more likely:
1. Jesus poured some water into a jug / urn and, in front of the onlookers, poured it into glasses / cups as the best wine the audience had tasted.

2. The caterers were trying to keep back the best wine for themselves, claiming it was nothing but water in the urn. Jesus then pours it out - and it's the best wine. The caterers, not wishing to be named as thieves, cry that Jesus has performed a miracle and turned the "water" into wine.


And has noone heard of magic tricks?
Perception would say that David Copperfield has made jet-liners and even the Eiffel Tower disappear! Wow! He's a miracle worker!!

Perception is subjective - which is why we subject things to science - to minimise the subjectivity of observation.
 
I've never seen any miracles.

Perception can be tricked. That is the whole basis of magic tricks. There is also the possibility that miracles were not magic, but fictional stories or metaphors designed to teach a lesson.
 
dattaswami said:
The atheists must be allowed to prove whether the miracles are simply magic tricks. When they cannot prove, they must accept the existence of super power above the logic.
Therefore to convince the atheists the miracles of the Lord are not necessary. When they are convinced about the existence of the Super power (Maya), the possessor of the Super Power, the Lord, coming in human form must be also accepted because the form is seen by the naked eyes.
Thus the salvation (Moksha) must be accepted by the atheists.
A single bond with the human form of the Lord is called ‘Saayujya’ or ‘Kaivalya’. Since the human form is perceived, Sayujya or Kaivalya is also perceived and must be accepted by the atheists.
Click to expand...

Why didn't you say just "Atheists must believe in God "?
 
I have never percieved a miracle or God, so I must conclude that they don't exist.
 
There is nothing superlogical about turning water into wine. God would only be above logic if he could prove that the conclusion of a logically valid argument, with true premises, was false.

For instance:

If A then B
A
-----------
B

Logic dictates that if the premises are true then the conclusion must be true. If God can make B false, while the premises are true, then he is above the rules of logic.

But why prove God is above logic, when you can just say that logic is the will of God, which is why it is the ultimate rule. I made that up myself.
 
Anil

There is a serious gaping flaw in your argument. Perception without understanding is an assumption. Anything spiritual, experienced or otherwise, is merely an assumption.
 
Meaning of second coming of Jesus

The names like Rama, Krishna, Jesus etc., belong to the external human body, which has taken birth. Such names are generated only after the birth of these human bodies. Therefore, such names are certainly the names of the external human bodies only, which are like the shirts. When the human bodies perish, these names also must perish. But these names exist as eternal names even after the disappearance of these human bodies due to death. The reason is that these names were directed towards the inner Lord even during the time of existence these human bodies. A person is carrying vegetables for selling. You call him by the name “ Vegetables”. The person is not vegetable and the vegetables are not the person also. But the possessor of the vegetables is called by the name of the possessed material. Similarly, when the name “ Krishna or Jesus” was called, this name was directed towards the internal Lord also. Therefore, even if the human body perished, since the Lord is eternal, Krishna or Jesus is also eternal. When Krishna said that He will come again and again, whenever necessary ( Yada Yada hi….Gita), it means the eternal Lord present in the human body will come again and again through different human forms. Similarly, when it is told that Jesus will come again, it means the Lord present in that human body will come again. Here the names Krishna and Jesus indicate the Lord and not the human body.

When some body says that He will come again after 20 years, it does not mean that he will come in the same shirt. Even in the case of the ordinary human beings the name indicates the inner eternal soul also. When people say that Subba Rao died, it means that the name indicates the external human body. People say that Subba Rao’s last journey is today. It means that the name indicates only the external body, which is going to be cremated in the burial ground on that day. In these sayings the name indicates the external human body. But after one-year people say that today is the yearly ceremony of Subba Rao. When you have stated that Subba Rao finished his last journey one year back, how can you bring Subba Rao again after one year? Here the name indicates the inner soul. Therefore, even in the worldly terminology the name indicates both the external body and inner soul according to the context.

Therefore, when you say that Jesus was crucified and killed, the name indicates the external human body. When you say that Jesus will come again on final day of destruction of this world, the name indicates the inner Lord. Thus, the same name indicates the external or internal item according to the context. When you say that Krishna danced in Brundavanam, the name indicates the external human body. When you say that Krishna will come again and again whenever necessary, the name indicates the inner Lord. If you realise this discrimination, you have no quarrel with any religion. When you say that Jesus or Krishna will come again, it means that the inner Lord is going to come in different human bodies again. When you are drawing the picture of Jesus or Krishna, the picture represents the external human body only and not the inner Lord. You can never draw the picture of the inner Lord because He is beyond the realm of imagination. You cannot say about the existence of two unimaginable Lords. When the Lord is unimaginable, He can be only one. If you say that there are two entities, it means that both the entities are imaginable. Therefore, you have to accept that there is only one unimaginable Lord or God. The external human bodies are different and cannot be one. When I say that Krishna is Jesus, it means that the Lord in the body of Krishna and in the body of Jesus is one and the same. It does not mean that the two different bodies are one and the same.

At Thy Lotus Feet His Holiness Sri Dattaswami

Anil Antony

www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org
 
A comprehensive analysis of all the religions to show their unity

The spiritual knowledge should come directly from the Lord. If He sends His messenger, the messenger is not capable of delivering all the points as told by the Lord and is also incapable of explaining in excellent manner as explained by the Lord. Therefore, the knowledge delivered by the messenger is not as excellent as delivered by the Lord directly. This is the main reason for the Lord to enter the human body to preach the divine knowledge. But if the Lord in human body declares that He is the Lord directly speaking, people become jealous because they think the human incarnation as human being only, since they always see the external body only. They misunderstand that the human being is claiming himself as God.

They cannot tolerate this due to their inherent jealousy and egoism towards the co-human beings. To solve this problem of majority of the people, the human incarnation has to say that He is only the messenger of God. Prophet Mohammad was really the human incarnation. But he never claimed himself as God due to this problem of majority. He said that He was only the messenger of God and that Q'ran was massage of God. Therefore, this Holy Scripture belongs to the angle of majority. The devotees who can realise the human incarnation are always very few only. To this minority the prophet can personally say that he is God or at least he is son of God. The message to minority need not be recorded, which can be orally delivered in person. Thus, Q'ran is a scripture for the majority. On the other hand Gita was the scripture of extreme minority, since Gita was told to Arjuna only.

In Gita, Krishna told that He is the Lord. Here you must realize that the Lord is speaking through the human body of Krishna. In between the Q'ran and Gita lies Bible. Jesus told that He is the messenger of the God, which is the message for the majority. He also told that He is God, which is the message for extreme minority. In between lies the minority for which He said that He is Son of God. Thus, Bible is the message covering all the three phases of public, which are majority, minority and extreme minority. As we pass from one end to the other end in the above order, the egoism and jealousy reduce from 100 to 50 to 0.

For majority dualism (Dvaita), for minority (Visista Advaita) and for extreme minority monism (Advaita) are preached by the human incarnation. Thus, in Christianity and Hinduism you can find all the three concepts. But in Islam you can find only Dvaita. You should not mistake that Islam is incomplete due to absence of the other two concepts. The merit in Islam is that no human being can claim himself as God and thus there is no danger of false human incarnation. But in Hinduism and Christianity there is always danger of fraud human incarnations. Again you should not criticize Hinduism and Christianity due to this danger. Assuming the possibility of danger of accident, will you avoid journey by bus or train or aeroplane? Thus, the positive and negative angles must be understood according to the context. However, in Christianity also, the danger is avoided because the Christians do not accept any other human incarnation as God except Jesus. Hinduism accepts every human incarnation as God. Thus, you can pass from Islam to Christianity to Hinduism.

There is no danger in Islam and Christianity. In Islam no human incarnation is accepted. This is extremity to avoid the danger. In Christianity Jesus was accepted as human incarnation but no other human incarnation was accepted to avoid the danger of exploitation of fraud human incarnations. Thus, in Islam the concept was not admitted. In Christianity the concept was admitted but was limited to Jesus only to avoid the danger. In Christianity the statement “Jesus will come again” completes the concept because it indicates that the human incarnation is again possible. Thus, the concept is completed in Bible. But by believing that Jesus comes only at the end of this creation, all the other human incarnations till the end are rejected.

Thus, the concept is completed in theory but not completed in practical. In Hinduism the concept is completed in theory as well as in practical. Gita says that Krishna will come again and again whenever it is necessary (Yadayadahi..). This means that the human incarnation will come again and again in several places and in several religions in even one human generation, because there is necessity for such facility. Thus, in Hinduism the concept is completed in theory and practical, but the danger is always full.

Thus, Hinduism recognises several human incarnations of Lord Datta (Krishna) as in the case of Sri Pada Vallabha, Sri Narasimha Saraswati, Sri Akkalkota Maharaj, Sri Sai Baba, etc. Hinduism recognises Buddha also as the human incarnation. Broad minded Hinduism recognises even Jesus, Mohammad, Mahaveer etc., also as human incarnations born in different religions. The universal spirituality is such broad minded Hinduism which is the broad minded Christianity, the broad minded Islam, the broad minded Buddhism and broad minded science. The Universal Spirituality contradicts and is prepared to argue with all religions limited with conservatism, provided these religions are prepared to accept the truth with open mind. The science with conservatism is atheism. When you realize all the three religions, namely Hinduism, Christianity and Islam, you will achieve the total concept, which is the universal spirituality. All the religions are different angles of the same central concept. You must observe the centre through all the angles from all the sides. Then only you can realise the total comprehensive central concept. Now you must see through the angles of Buddhism and science also.

Buddhism speaks about the God present in the human incarnation by keeping silent about God. Silence means that God is beyond words and imagination. It does not indicate the absence of God. Buddhism is misunderstood as atheism. The time wheel (Kala Chakra) and the revolving bright wheel (Sudarsana Chakra) indicate that the time is constantly moving and that you will meet the death certainly one day or other. It indicates that you should hurry in detaching yourself from the world and that you should attach to the Lord as early possible.


At Thy Lotus Feet His Holiness Sri Dattaswami

Anil Antony

www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org
 
dattaswami said:
The spiritual knowledge should come directly from the Lord. If He sends His messenger, the messenger is not capable of delivering all the points as told by the Lord and is also incapable of explaining in excellent manner as explained by the Lord. Therefore, the knowledge delivered by the messenger is not as excellent as delivered by the Lord directly.
Click to expand...

Then, we must discard the concept of gods since no god has ever delivered messages directly to the masses. If he did, we would all know about it.

To solve this problem of majority of the people, the human incarnation has to say that He is only the messenger of God.

In Gita, Krishna told that He is the Lord. Here you must realize that the Lord is speaking through the human body of Krishna.

However, in Christianity also, the danger is avoided because the Christians do not accept any other human incarnation as God except Jesus. Hinduism accepts every human incarnation as God.
Click to expand...

There is no way to distinguish Krishna, you, me or anyone else from so-called prophets. A god would have to deliver his message to all. That could be easily achieved by an all-knowing, all-powerful creator, couldn't it?

There is no danger in Islam and Christianity. In Islam no human incarnation is accepted. This is extremity to avoid the danger. In Christianity Jesus was accepted as human incarnation but no other human incarnation was accepted to avoid the danger of exploitation of fraud human incarnations. Thus, in Islam the concept was not admitted. In Christianity the concept was admitted but was limited to Jesus only to avoid the danger. In Christianity the statement “Jesus will come again” completes the concept because it indicates that the human incarnation is again possible. Thus, the concept is completed in Bible. But by believing that Jesus comes only at the end of this creation, all the other human incarnations till the end are rejected.
Click to expand...

There is great danger in religions that have only the word of men to substantiate and validate it, therefore they must ALL be rejected.

Buddhism speaks about the God present in the human incarnation by keeping silent about God. Silence means that God is beyond words and imagination. It does not indicate the absence of God.
Click to expand...

Yet, the presence of gods is claimed, despite their absence.

Buddhism is misunderstood as atheism. The time wheel (Kala Chakra) and the revolving bright wheel (Sudarsana Chakra) indicate that the time is constantly moving and that you will meet the death certainly one day or other. It indicates that you should hurry in detaching yourself from the world and that you should attach to the Lord as early possible.
Click to expand...

Would that be the Lord which is claimed to exist by men such as yourself, yet is clearly absent?
 
duendy said:
is datta swami i see over dere??
Click to expand...


The Christ, the Messiah, the Savior of Mankind is the Holy Grail,
the Vessel that holds the Blood, the Spirit, the Nature, the Way,
the vessel that has had the Breath of God Breathed into his or
her nostrils, the Spirit, the Way, the Single True Nature of the
Universe, made manifest a Living Soul, Being, a Supreme, a
Refined, Being, making Mortal Man more than a mere animal
of Flesh, and Bone, a Truly a Humane Being.
 
dattsjustcrap: you never pose any questions, you just preach we are not interested.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top