UFO Phenomenomen as a new cosmic view of mankind

DID YOU BELIEVE IN UFO'S?

  • Did you believe in ufo's?

    Votes: 1 25.0%

  • Have you seen ufo's?

    Votes: 2 50.0%

  • Did the government know the truth about ufo's?

    Votes: 1 25.0%

  • Are we alone in the Universe?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    4
C

charliequimico

Registered Member
UFO Phenomenon as a new cosmic view of mankind

Hello to everybody:

I am new to this forum.As a scientist I believe that we live in a strange world.A world in which many mysteries are still unexplained.It is like we live in a big haunted world.Daring point of view? Well,there are many strange things in this world that may prove my assertion as a true one.The ufo mystery is one of them.I am a broad minded scientist. I recognize that
the mainstream science denies the existence of the ufo phenomenon. In many
ocassions science is as dogmatic as the religions.I wrote several years ago
a thought about ufos that I believe summarize the actual status of this phenomenon.It states:

"The interesting and mysterious ufo phenomenon is a world order phenomenon.By conservative calculations it is estimated that more than 100 million people around the world have seen ufo's during the last 60 years.Wisely,we have to make the appropiate questions about this mystery.
Today we do not have an exact idea about the origins of this phenomenon,but
we know that maybe it is the expression of one or more intelligences that are
observing mankind since ancient times.The purpose and origin of these beings
is unknown as it is the why it manifest to us.We need a historical paradigm
shift and a new cosmovision of man and the cosmos to begin to understand
the origin and modus operandi of the forces/intelligences that apparently alter
and control all of the ufo phenomenon from an unknown point of the space-
time''.
 
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HI, and WELCOME, You are exploring a very interesting subject, and coincidently i also have lately bee drawn to this subject again.

I was into it the weeks leading up to 9/11, and when the shock of tat happened i went off hat research and started focussing abou all of that

At that time i was also intersted about UFOS and ET, and espciall was interested in The Disclosure Project, where apparently many popl in offical posiions etc were coming togethe to reveal govermnet cover-up regarding UFO an contact wit ETs.....

Sincethen however, and particularly in the time following our 7/7, i have immersed my self in researching about te Illuminati, who i believe are reposnible for such atrocities as i've mentioned etc

Only the other day i found out about a theory of William Lyne's et al, who suggest that rather than ETs flying these strange craft, it is the power elite..!

Ie., that they have known about advanced technology for decades but keep it top secret so as to keep their monopoly over fossl fuels, and so on.

That they both fund the debunkers of UFOology, and its new age promoters, so as to keep the public gaze away from the truth

dont know what you make of this theory?
 
Funny you should mention "religion," charliequimico. The UFO/ETI movement has some very religious aspects to it:

1) belief in the supernatural
2) untestable premises
3) dogmatic followers
4) individual cults (Raelians, Heaven's Gate, Disclosure Project, etc.)
5) higher purposes (hope for humanity, joining the "federation", etc)
6) apocalyptic vision (bad ETs, alien war -ala craterchains, etc.)
7) holy sites & events (Roswell, impending 'disclosure,' crop circles, cattle mutilations, etc.)
8) rituals (posting to science boards, watching/reading UFO media propaganda)
9) prophets (profits?) & priests (Steven Greer, Bob Lazar, Streiber, Randle, Good, etc)
10) Saints (Ray Hyman, Kenneth Arnold, Roswell key-players, etc.)
11) and so on
 
Your poll is badly constructed.
Did you believe in ufo's?Yes of course. I am certain that there are unidentified flying objects.
Have you seen ufo's?Certainly. I saw one two days ago. A very large object, hanging in the sky, several miles away. I was able to observe it over the course of half an hour while driving between Newark and East Midland's airport. This enabled me to reach the reasonable identification that it was a blimp positioned over Trent Bridge in connection with the Fourth Test.
Did the government know the truth about ufo's?Yes. They are aware that they are a combination of misidentifications, astronomical phenomena, hoaxes, delusions, and rare physical phenomena such as ball lightning or earthquake lights.
Are we alone in the Universe?No idea.
You see why I say you have constructed a inadequate poll.

Duendy - nice to see you back and still spouting nonsense.
 
Hello:

Nosense? Did you already know where is your nose? You are one of those blatant people who do not take their serious time to really make a serious study of all of these allegations of ufo's,instead of becoming a person who totally denies the overwhelming evidence of the existence of ufo's.Please,document yourself first and bring to your own conclussions.There are countless of good books who can teach you one or two things,but first you shall shed out your pedant and arrogant attitude.

Have a nice day,folk.
 
"instead of becoming a person who totally denies the overwhelming evidence of the existence of ufo's."

Please. Share with us this "overwhelming" evidence. No one else appears to have done so to date. Even in these "good books" you mention.
 
Charlie, even if everything you say concerning me were true the fact would remain that you have still conducted an ambiguous, ungrammatical, obscure poll. That is an objective fact. Do you accept that?

What exactly is a blatant person?

I have been studying UFO's for almost fifty years. How long have you been studying them for? And really, what relevance would either of these facts have to the evidence, or rather lack of it.

You have claimed that I do not believe in UFOs, when I have clearly stated that I absolutely believe in them - Unidentified Flying Objects. Of course they exist. We merely differ as to their nature.

I dont think one can simultaneously have a pedant and arrogant attitude. These two are mutually exclusive. I'll take the accusation of pedantry as a compliment (though I have no idea how you deduce it from my post). As to the accusation of arrogance, could you explain what in my response is arrogant. (Please don't refer to my aside to Duendy. We have crossed keyboards several times in the past.)
 
They need that permission anytime said people assert their conjectures as either facts or potential facts. If they maintain that their conjectures are mere science-fiction and fantasy, they're fine.

But when speaking of new paradigms and a new "cosmovision," you're talking about pseudoscience. That, which pretends to be science.

The forces/intelligences that control the ufo phenomenon are clear: they are us. Not ET. There is more evidence to conclude this than an 'extraterrestrial' explanation. Indeed, there is no physical evidence at all to reach the ET conclusion.
 
what i am not mad on is patronization of people wo claim to have seen UFOS.....ie., not IDENTIFIED FOs mr OPHILIOLite. obviously you identified your 'UFO@ experience didn't you?...welll....didn't you?

There have been many many reports. propbably THE most dramatic sightings occured in the early 90s in Brazil at the time of the eclipse where many people, looking up say lots of UFOs and took film photos and videos of them froam varying locations.........as far as i know, tis mindblowin event has been shown on TV ONCE!...i remember seein it, and saw this UFP playing hide and seek behind a cloud

So comeone OPH, and SKIN, please attempt to explain that evnt. i am all ears
 
i am assuming you have a more advanced computer in front of you than i have?...minebeing a sible digital set top box, hardly even a computer to some smug gets

with yours can you get video....? etc. if so i am more than sure tat wit some initiativ on your part, you could surely find ample data about this event......or aren't you bothered?....

is 'so why bother' your middle name? or do you wan to find out?
is your pupose to just poo poo any questions about this, wtout being bothered to make any effort to ask questions yourSELF?

are you afraid of what you may find, that may shake up your firm (seemingly) convictions that 'there is no evidence'?

otherwise you just come across as alazy cant-b-bothered-son-of-a-pseudosceptic
 
What will a video demonstrate as evidence? The data I'm talking about is anthropological, geographical, meteorlogical, psychological, etc. The video would be helpful to make comparissons with objective interviews of eyewitnesses, but such interviews are rare when applied to phenomena like UFOs. The interviewer nearly always has an agenda, even among the skeptics. The skeptical agenda, however, is the proper one as long as it doesn't automatically discount that something happened.

The skeptic that goes into the investigation with the a priori notion that the event was a hoax or lie, will look for said evidence. The skeptic that simply doubts the extraterrestrial explanation will have the best chance of finding the true explanation, even if it *is* an ET one. This is because the skeptical investigator will refrain from such a priori mistakes that are small and common such as interviewing witness and asking questions like, "at what angle was the craft?" or "what time did you see the saucer?"

Instead the skeptic will use questions that are less biased and more likely to uncover patterns or trends among the witness that are subtle. This is standard methodology among sociologists and anthropologists, but counter-productive to journalists and sensationalists.

Even the term "UFO" is loaded. "Unidentified" is fine, but the other two words of the acronym make assumptions. "Flying" assumes that something mechanical was at work. Clouds don't fly (except perhaps in poetry), nor does a beam of light or a thousand other possibilities. "Object," again, assumes something made or mechanical or tangible. Not to mention that the term "UFO" is synonymous with "flying saucer," ET, and alien abduction.

A better term would be unknown aerial phenomena.

Fund my expedition to Brazil and I'll post a reply to what I think about the sighting(s) there.

And furthermore, I'm not a "pseudosceptic," I really am skeptical of extraordinary claims that don't lend themselves to testing as hypotheses. I ask questions regarding these claims and I'm willing to suggest alternative, far more plausible explanations (those that have been verified and tested in the past) in favor of the supernatural and fantastical explanation (speculations that cannot be tested or observed to repeat themselves and demonstrate some predictive behavior).

As a skeptic, however, I don't automatically discount the likelyhood that UFOs may have an ETI explanation (and, indeed, I hope they do). I simply don't see this as a very probable explanation when the volume of sightings doesn't reflect the available evidence (which is nearly zero. I say "nearly" because anecdote is a form of evidence, but it isn't reliable without confirmation and cooberation). I expect that there probably are other forms of intelligent life in the universe, probably even in this galaxy. I don't accept that they've visitd us based on many things, not the least of which is the enormity of the galaxy itself as well as the energy expenditures necessary to travel it enough to locate another intelligent form of life.

The speculative counter to that is, of course, that an advanced alien intelligence would undboubtedly have technology and physics that could defeat such limitations. Perhaps, but until such time as this speculation can be tested and verified, it remains that: a "speculation." Fun for sciencefiction, but not very useful in science with the exception of forming hypotheses.
 
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I am a broad minded scientist.

Funny, your posts do not suggest that in any way. You sound more like a teenager living in his parents basement who believes in little green men.
 
'UAPs', UFOs, so what's the difference?

You keep saying 'anecdotal'--translated this means reports from people., not 'scientisfic proof'

HOW do you define video footage, amd photographs as evidence? Especially when checked over by a specialist who can find no trickery, tough tat may be more difficult to prove in tis day and age with fast accelerating digital manipulation.

You seem to have a religion. Science! in tat you discount any eye wtiness reports, and question the prson's judgement, even those who are probably trained to be more attuned to aerial phenomena like airlinepilots etc.


so is it Scientism versus the 'Many'. This attitude reminds me of the Hindu myth of the 'One' versus the 'Many', where the latter is considered illusion/'Maya' and not to be trusted.

This is a big sbject. I notice you say you come from a broader perspective, mentiioning psychology, and anthropology, etc. That is good, because specialization is narror-minded,but i dont tink you are broad enough. What about the subject of scientific corrption, and government and corporate corruption which inclues propaganda and ;ies and cover-ups? Are you
not aware that such as this behaviour doesn't exist? And if you do, then haveyou wondered what this may mean?

You seem to connect UFOs with ETs. But have you considered secret advanced technology which has/is being used by the military and power elite, and seen by people in various locations, and encounters
? At least in this line of inquiry it would do without the 'diversion' of that hypothesis!

Have you ever pondered just what it is they get up to at area 51, and other places off-the-map?..doin their toenails?
 
Fromthedarksea said:
A blatant person, Ophiolite, is something similar to what you're doing off-topic here as a way to intimidate another who you obviously disagree with.
Click to expand...
Off-topic? I think not. This is a poll. I like polls. I open this one up and find I cannot actually vote in it because, as noted above, the questions are ambiguous to the point of meaningless. That is a decidedly on topic point to make.
As to the poor english, I am sure it is markedly superior to my spanish. (I am guessing Charliequimico is a native spanish speaker.) I would consider it rude if I did not make Charlie aware that the structure of the poll makes it largely unusable. Are you seriously arguing that the it is well constructed?

From my point of view I delivered in a few lines a demonstration that
a) the poll was badly structured. (Which it was.)
b) I did not agree with Charlie's view on UFO's. (This is a discussion forum. Was he expecting people to universally agree with him? I trust not.)

I made the above two points in a direct way, with a little lightheartedness (which you have characterised as self righteous white-washing). I have been polite throughout. I attacked Charlie's ideas, advised him that his poll was badly constructed, but made no personal attack on Charlie at all.

In return I was accused by Charlie of being arrogant and a pedant. Why? Apparently because I disagree with him. Strange behaviour for a mature scientist.

You claim that I have ignored Charlie's central point, which I repeat here:
We need a historical paradigm shift and a new cosmovision of man and the cosmos to begin to understand the origin and modus operandi of the forces/intelligences that apparently alter and control all of the ufo phenomenon from an unknown point of the space-time...
Click to expand...

Please re-read my original post. I am challenging the basis of Charlie's call for a "historical paradigm shift". I am stating very clearly, albeit in a lighthearted (sorry, that's self righteous to you) manner, that I do not accept his contention that UFOs represent alien forces/intelligences .

I hope it clear to you now that I will attack ideas that I consider flawed with all the vigour I possess and every weapon open to me in my debating armoury. If the ideas have merit, then these attacks will be as naught. Anyone posting on these forums should be aware that this is how discusisons and debates are conducted.

Ancillary to that, contrary to what you have perceived, I have been polite throughout my postings. I would appreciate the same courtesy from yourself and Charlie. Being an optimist I hope to receive it.

Referring to Charlie's ideas you ask
What's the harm in discussing these? Do people need permission of a science community to conjecture too?
Click to expand...
This seems rather trite. There is no harm in discussing these. I have participated in that discussion, by indicating that I place a very low vlaue on the ideas. No permission from the science community is necessary. But you already knew that,I think, so why ask?
But if you are going to conjecture and expect to have those conjectures be taken seriously by anyone with a smidgeon of quality scientific training, then you will require to have those ideas subject to intense scrutiny. It is rather precious to object (with personal insults) when this happens.

Finally, I refer you back, again, to my original post. There is no convincing evidence that UFOs are alien craft or entities, therefore Charlie's thesis falls at the first hurdle.
 
Dear friend Skinwalker:

I accept the point that you are a real skeptic.This is your point of view.I respect it.You have the rights to expose your opinion in this forum.Again this is fine.But I am not in accordance with you when you said:

" I don't accept that they've visitd us based on many things, not the least of which is the enormity of the galaxy itself as well as the energy expenditures necessary to travel it enough to locate another intelligent form of life".

You are assuming that if there are some forms of intelligences out there they have to view the Universe as we do.Don't you accept that maybe there are civilizations far more advanced than us that maybe have discovered non-linear forms of traveling through space? Maybe they have solve the energy expenditure factor to travel through the space.As a scientist I accept any possibility.I am not a naive person.It is true that I cannot prove these possibilities in my lab,but the fact is still there.Maybe the only thing that we need is what I said in my initial thread,a paradigm shift in the way that Science is done everyday.There are many accounts of skeptics like you that in the near past were ashamed when some new discoveries were made.I will give you only one example: In 1903 many scientist were skeptics about the possibility that anything more dense than air could really fly.However,months later the Orville Wright Brothers flew with success their experimental plane,opening the modern aviation era.Those skeptics scientist gave no simple declaration about the success of the Orvillle Brothers.I think that maybe these is the same for the unknown aerial phenomena as you said.We don't know anything about it but there are many proofs of the existence of a real intriguing phenomena in our skies.If we send a man to the jail based on the testimony of one or more eyewitnesses in a fair judicial trial,why can we not accept the real testimony of many sincere persons,from all society levels that simply one day found themselves with some weird phenomena as real as the testimony of the killing of a person? This is my point of view.I am not biased about "ufo's".I am simply accepting the idea that something is out there that I cannot explain today with my actual scientific knowledge.But accepting the fact that I cannot explain it,or explain it with my scientific knowledge do not give me the rights to deny it anyway.Again,I respect your point in this forum,but maybe you are not seeing the whole mainframe of these strange things as I do as a scientist.

Best Regards,

Charliequimico
 
As a scientist I... in my lab... my actual scientific knowledge... my scientific knowledge ... I do as a scientist.

You must be trying to convince yourself because you certainly aren't convincing anyone else. Do you feel that if you repeat it enough times, it might become true?

Maybe the only thing that we need is what I said in my initial thread,a paradigm shift in the way that Science is done everyday.

My crackpot indicator just went off the scale.
 
Charlie,
SkinWalker has long had a blind spot when it comes to interstellar travel. I hope to address this directly in a separate thread shortly. Briefly, we do not need to appeal to warp drives or wormholes, we can travel to the stars with technology mot much more advanced than what we have today. Secondly, the energy requirement is unimportant. Once we are a type II civilisation, utilising a significant proportion of the sun's ouput a hop to nearby stars will be simple. Thirdly, Skinwalker is assuming lifespans comparable with ours - not a given.

But, please provide a reference to any reputable scientist who doubted the possibility of heavier than air flight in the early 1900s, or late 1990s. I believe this claim is an urban myth.

Finally, what is your field of scientific training? That is relevant to the discussion.
 
Dear Friend :

My Scientific training is vast.I do not need to discuss it with a member of a forum who assumes some strange attitudes toward other members of this forum.By the way,I am a PH.D. in Chemistry.I also had a master degree in Physics and a minor in Chemical Engineering.I will definitely not discuss my real credentials with anyone here.They are mine and I earned them with a lot of sacrifice as to permit anyone to spit or doubt of them.Urban myth you said? No,what I said about scientists who denied the possibility of air/space travel is not an urban legend.Take your time as I did to convince yourself about it.And finally,I am not here to be in struggle with anyone.What
I want is to expose my ideas as I read your ideas and express our opinions mutually.
This is the real purpose of a forum like this,but I understand that you have to be more considerate toward other human beings instead of treating them as ignorant or naive persons(I refer to the way that you treated Duendy).This definitely will give you a more
appealing attitude and a more brilliant perspective to expose your ideas.Q,people like you,who do not respect any point of view nor had any considerate education as to the way to treat another human being are an example of why our society is as it is actually.If you want that I respect you,respect yourself first and me.Then I will respect you and treat you with honor and consideration.


Best Regards to everyone here,


Charliequimico
 
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