Truth

[Cyperium]

Truth and Feelings

We all have many oppinions on what is the truth and what is not.

But here I won't say what is the truth, cause to be honest I don't know.

Sure I believe in God, but I don't know He exists.

What I want to describe here, is what I feel is the nature of truth. What I feel, is what I feel - if I feel something is the truth, then I have to accept that as truth or (somehow) argue against the feeling itself, which I feel is next to impossible. But, on the other hand, what I feel is possible is going through life and learn by experiance, cause I think feelings have alot to do with experiance.

Ok, so on to the nature of truth:

I feel that the truth is simple. Truth in itself is the most simple thing. Infants should be able to understand.

Because it is so simple, we can make the truth a part of us. To make things a part of us is one of the most incredible things about life. So when hit with a truth, one should feel that he completly understands it at once (if it is a real truth), cause there would be no arguments and only acceptance (since it is so simple).

But...because truth becomes a part of us, we easily overlook it and it may not be that easy to find the words to express the truth that you feel inside (or it becomes so blended with yourself that you no longer feel it, unless it is compromised - or lost, God gives and God takes).

You could say that truth is only human psychology, that in reality there is no truth, but that we psychologically accept certain things as true. But I don't think it works this way. Somehow we are a part of reality, just as the finger is a part of the body. The truth can be shared from reality to you.

I can't change what I feel. No one can tell me, "you must forgive him", cause if I don't feel forgivness to him, then I don't have forgivness to give him.

Though I also feel that forgivness could be given to anyone, but that it has it's time. It must come when it comes. You could also fasten the process by thinking of good things that he did to you, and thus wake the willing to forgive.

This is also (somewhat) a truth (forgivness) cause you can't forgive unless it comes to your power to do so. And by what means does it come to you? It should come to you, because it's true to forgive him. The feeling of forgivness should know by itself when it's right to forgive.

But people underestimate the power of feelings, and out of bitterness they may try to defeat the feeling of forgivness. To do that is to go against your own will, and follow hate and bitterness (which we know is not a part of your will, cause your will wants what's good - this has been taught from childhood) and besides, bitterness and hate doesn't feel right, it's a unwanted feeling (or should be), but I've seen some people that are the emotional equivalence to sadist. I just can't imagine that they like those feelings. But I guess there are some people also, that think those feelings make you strong (hate can give alot of arguments in the fight - but it takes away the arguments that would calm the fight and give justice).

I earlier talked about the truth becoming a part of yourself. This is truly fantastic, and must be experianced to understand. It is love that binds us, that glue spiritual things together (truth is a spiritual thing). By love for the truth we may know it and be a part of it.

This is what I feel, and I believe love to be the nature of truth.

Don't only give me crap for this, at least some of this should be accepted, so if you give me crap, please bring me some good points too...if you feel for it

 

[Adstar]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Cyperium

I can't change what I feel. No one can tell me, "you must forgive him", cause if I don't feel forgivness to him, then I don't have forgivness to give him.

Though I also feel that forgivness could be given to anyone, but that it has it's time. It must come when it comes. You could also fasten the process by thinking of good things that he did to you, and thus wake the willing to forgive.

But what if he has never done anything good to you?

Where can we obtain the feelings of forgiveness for one who has never done good for us?

We focus on the One who has forgiven us, The Messiah Jesus, we dwell on His grace that we sinners do not deserve, that we did not earn, that has been given as a true gift, given without expectation of reward. If we spend time immersing ourselves in the Truth of that Love then conviction comes upon us to give that love and forgiveness to others. Understanding the spirit of the truth gives us compassion for our enemies. For we being forgiven sinners can lift from us those feelings of hate vengefulness bitterness and anger, feelings that only kill the one who bears them. Kills them spiritually and physically.

I earlier talked about the truth becoming a part of yourself. This is truly fantastic, and must be experienced to understand. It is love that binds us, that glue spiritual things together (truth is a spiritual thing). By love for the truth we may know it and be a part of it.

Amen Those who embrace the Love of the Truth are free, Free indeed.

All praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[pavlosmarcos]

the truth is anything, other than the bible.
I embrace the love of truth, and truth of love.
however I am yet, to see it in any religion.
99.99999% of all the wars and murders from the begining of time were caused by religion.
so you fundis have a cheek, to say being forgiven sinners can lift you from those feelings of hate vengefulness bitterness and anger, that an impossibility.

 

[Cyperium]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Cyperium

It was my pleasure

But what if he has never done anything good to you?

Then you should feel sad for him. Amazingly this can also bring forward the will to forgive. Also because we know that we are all sinners and at some level we can understand him.

Where can we obtain the feelings of forgiveness for one who has never done good for us?

Read above. I also think you can pray to God that He lets you forgive the one that did wrong to you.

We focus on the One who has forgiven us, The Messiah Jesus, we dwell on His grace that we sinners do not deserve, that we did not earn, that has been given as a true gift, given without expectation of reward. If we spend time immersing ourselves in the Truth of that Love then conviction comes upon us to give that love and forgiveness to others. Understanding the spirit of the truth gives us compassion for our enemies. For we being forgiven sinners can lift from us those feelings of hate vengefulness bitterness and anger, feelings that only kill the one who bears them. Kills them spiritually and physically.

I agree, I really miss the time when we were children and we really understood eachother.

Sure there were conflicts even then, but in the end of the day we would have accepted eachother anyway. Even the ability to cry is lost to most people. Unless it's something really tragic.

Amen Those who embrace the Love of the Truth are free, Free indeed.

All praise The Ancient Of Days

Amen.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

We all have many oppinions on what is the truth and what is not.

But here I won't say what is the truth, cause to be honest I don't know.

Sure I believe in God, but I don't know He exists.

What I want to describe here, is what I feel is the nature of truth. What I feel, is what I feel - if I feel something is the truth, then I have to accept that as truth or (somehow) argue against the feeling itself, which I feel is next to impossible. But, on the other hand, what I feel is possible is going through life and learn by experiance, cause I think feelings have alot to do with experiance.

Cyperium,

Your assertions are some of the most honest ones I have seen about how
fantastic claims are accepted as being true. Outstanding job! Most people
in your situation try to rationalize their acceptances and in the process are
dishonest to themselves. You however are just the opposite and this type
of self honesty is a big milestone along the path of clear thought. Once again,
fantastic post!

 

[§outh§tar]

99.99999% of all the wars and murders from the begining of time were caused by religion.

Is there a stupider statement?

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Almost forgot. I wanted to theroeize what 'Truth' really is. Oddly enough,
I think this is the first time I have ever done so. Please consider it an
initial model which could be subject to revision if contradicted.

Truth - empirical information purged of interpretation

Enojy!

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Is there a stupider statement?

Rather than simply insulting it, it would have a more profound effect if
it is contradicted.

 

[audible]

Is there a stupider statement?

yes what you said.

elaborate to us, when there has been a war or killings, that was not directly, caused by a religion, and then give us a statistic, that could prove it.
like 99.99999%.

 

[Cyperium]

Cyperium,

Your assertions are some of the most honest ones I have seen about how
fantastic claims are accepted as being true. Outstanding job! Most people
in your situation try to rationalize their acceptances and in the process are
dishonest to themselves. You however are just the opposite and this type
of self honesty is a big milestone along the path of clear thought. Once again,
fantastic post!

Thank you for your compliments.

Almost forgot. I wanted to theroeize what 'Truth' really is. Oddly enough,
I think this is the first time I have ever done so. Please consider it an
initial model which could be subject to revision if contradicted.

Truth - empirical information purged of interpretation

I'm from Sweden, can you please explain what that meant?

 

[Cyperium]

yes what you said.

elaborate to us, when there has been a war or killings, that was not directly, caused by a religion, and then give us a statistic, that could prove it.
like 99.99999%.

Most wars are because of people that want more power. Sure there has been many wars with "religion" as a cover to their real reasons.

Wars have also been started with the reason of defending democrasy (like the war on terrorism).

Also, people want their names to be forever, which is another reason why wars are started.

Another cause may be that some leader of one country has made some leader of another country upset.

Or someone maybe like to expand their territory?

And so on, so on....

Al Qaida may have religious reasons but they aren't the only ones starting war (if you look at history there has been many wars - do you really think 99% of the wars have religious causes?).

And none of this have to do with the Bible being true or not.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Thank you for your compliments.

I'm from Sweden, can you please explain what that meant?

Sure,

Lets hypothetically say that you closed your eyes and had a friend put a
piece of fruit in your hand. Your goal was to state what the fruit was. What
your friend puts into your hand was a small grapefruit. You may have asserted
the correct answer or you may have confused the small grapefruit for an
orange. What happened is that you interpreted what you felt and came up with an answer which may or may not have been correct. If the interpretation
is removed then we are left with a small grapefruit (the truth). I hope this
makes sense.

 

[Cyperium]

Sure,

Lets hypothetically say that you closed your eyes and had a friend put a
piece of fruit in your hand. Your goal was to state what the fruit was. What
your friend puts into your hand was a small grapefruit. You may have asserted
the correct answer or you may have confused the small grapefruit for an
orange. What happened is that you interpreted what you felt and came up with an answer which may or may not have been correct. If the interpretation
is removed then we are left with a small grapefruit (the truth). I hope this
makes sense.

I see.

Someone asked on these forums, "when does a truth become untrue? When is an apple not an apple?" and I answered "when we try to describe it".

Cause I feel that our description is allways less than the truth itself (cause we have to use other words to describe it).

I think that the truth that we feel inside is like the smell of a flower, you don't know the shape and look of the flower, but when you feel it's smell you know that it is the flower.

The same way we had alot of truths inside us (at least I believe so) and we had many feelings even as children that we couldn't express at that time (a study has shown that children can become frustrated at times because they understand more than they have words to express).

So then when we stumbled upon a word that in context were describing the feeling that we had, then we feel joy cause we can easily indentify with it's meanings. We can feel that it's true because of the simplicity and because we have allways felt that way. But this is of course my own oppinion but I have a really distinct feeling that it's close to the truth (it even brings back memories from when I was a child myself).

Some things that I have thought of as the truth has later shown itself that it wasn't (mostly because of other people that have argued against what I felt was the truth), but then later it has been revealed to me that what I believed from the beginning was the truth.

Nothing say that what I think of as truth, must be the truth for everyone else.

There are individual standpoints, we aren't perfect. If we were perfect then we would see how our truth fit with everyone. But we could believe that we have the truth in common, we could have faith that what we felt from the beginning was true.