Truth in Numbers?

Carcano

Carcano

Valued Senior Member
A writer in the local paper recently published an article about how he was converting to Catholicism from some other denomination.

His reason? Because there is truth in numbers. He decided that Catholicism must be God's favourite because it has the longest history and the largest number of followers. It makes him feel more secure surrounded by all that tradition and the sheer weight of numbers.

One of the theists on board (Jan Ardena?) recently posted something similar to the effect that Christianity is validated by the existence of so many churches and art inspired in its holy name.

An opposing view was described by Voltaire, who wrote...'nothing of great value is ever found in a crowd.'

He believed that truth was something quite rare and difficult to obtain, seldom if ever found to be popular.

Discuss?
 
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I have to say, people on a whole generally know what is best but their actions dont always reflect this.

But this doesnt apply to religion because I see it as essentially brainwashing, and the most brainwashed people doesnt make it right.
 
There are two two aspects to making a choice based on the weight of numbers.

1. The numbers indicate that an apparent cause and effect relationship has occurred so often that the perceived cause is most likely the actual cause.

2. The numbers indicate that a specific outcome is extremely attractive because of the large number of people who hope it is fact.

The first is based on actual observations while the second is based purely on desire.

The first offers the best opportunity to discover a truth whereas the second offers no indication it could be true.

The first is a typical approach taken by science and the second is the religious methodology.

If we are interested in truth then the first offers our best hope but if we are just interested in feeling happy then choose type 2,
 
Interesting... Firstly, Catholicism does not have the longest history. Without even opening a book to find an exact date I know that Judaism trumps it by around 2000 years, so I am not so sure as to this guy's sources and it makes me even more unsure if he decided to convert based on the right facts.

But in response to whether something of great value is found in a crowd or not, I will have to side with Voltaire on this one. One way I like to look at it is by dissecting the word unique. "Uni" in Latin means "one", and "que" in more than one European language means "what". So when you combine the two together you come out with the word unique, or "what is one". And we usually use this word to describe something of great value, and the defining factor is that there is nothing like it, without equal, like us. Doesn't that make you feel all warm inside :D
 
Carcano said:
An opposing view was described by Voltaire, who wrote...'nothing of great value is ever found in a crowd.'

He believed that truth was something quite rare and difficult to obtain, seldom if ever found to be popular.

Discuss?
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What is unpopular to so many people is the concept of a God that stresses only two main criteria..to be selfless in your attitude and to practice unconditional love. A god that is inclusive of trillions upon trillions of versions of he/she/itself. A God that is the only real reality and the entire universe(s) and all in it are just simply tiny bits of the greater whole.The confrontational ignorance of humanity at our present time just ( for the most part) does not want to accept this. It's much easier to reflect from ourselves a version of God that addresses our own set of prejudices. Take fundamentalist Christians like John Macarthur. He comes across like a bigot in his attitude but always hides behind the oh so dogmatic Pauline version of Christianity. Paul..who was no doubt just a construct created by early orthodox Christians in an attempt to convert the local pagan populations. Paul has very little evidence for his existence. In fact ,much less evidence than characters from popular pagan myths at the time of Christ.
R.E Witts unbiased study of Pauline Christianity can be found in his book..."Isis in the Ancient World".
 
Carcano said:
Couldnt that be said of any alleged writer of ancient times?

Why not just say theres very little evidence of anyone's existence?
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Granted,that is probably quite true. We simply take it at face value don't we. What helps thou is if the "alleged writer" is corroburated by many other various sources. Again, being that it's in the past and we were not there..who knows what really went down.
 
That means Santa exists and that Astrology is true! Maybe the Loch Ness Monster exists too!
 
Carcano said:
A writer in the local paper recently published an article about how he was converting to Catholicism from some other denomination.

His reason? Because there is truth in numbers. He decided that Catholicism must be God's favourite because it has the longest history and the largest number of followers. It makes him feel more secure surrounded by all that tradition and the sheer weight of numbers.
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Jesus said that the end times would be like the times of Noah. Very few true followers of God. So the very logic that this man is using runs counter to the prophecy of Jesus.

The bigger the religious organization is and the more influence it has on the authorities, and the more support it has from the authorities of this world the more likely it will be false.

One of the theists on board (Jan Ardena?) recently posted something similar to the effect that Christianity is validated by the existence of so many churches and art inspired in its holy name.
Click to expand...

The Word of God validates and justifies itself. What is popular in this world is only what attracts most men.

An opposing view was described by Voltaire, who wrote...'nothing of great value is ever found in a crowd.'
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True.

He believed that truth was something quite rare and difficult to obtain, seldom if ever found to be popular.

Discuss?
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True, and the Word of Jesus is rejected by the vast majority of the world. It is even rejected by the vast majority of the minority in this world that proclaim to accept it.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Adstar said:
Jesus said that the end times would be like the times of Noah. Very few true followers of God. So the very logic that this man is using runs counter to the prophecy of Jesus.
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Indeed...narrow is the path that leads to life.

How narrow?

Well, the path already rules out pagans, hindus, buddhists, muslims, etc. etc. going back thousand of years, so lets say thats 99.999% of all humans who have ever lived.

And of those left who claim to be followers of Jesus maybe only 5% are authentic.

So, whats 5% of 0.001%?

Thats how many are left.

The others???

Flung into an abyss of horror!

Thank you Jesus. :)
 
Carcano said:
Indeed...narrow is the path that leads to life.

How narrow?

Well, the path already rules out pagans, hindus, buddhists, muslims, etc. etc. going back thousand of years, so lets say thats 99.999% of all humans who have ever lived.

And of those left who claim to be followers of Jesus maybe only 5% are authentic.

So, whats 5% of 0.001%?

Thats how many are left.

The others???

Flung into an abyss of horror!

Thank you Jesus. :)
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If they have had the Gospel message put before them and they have rejected it. Yes flung into a Lake of Fire of eternal unending torment. Horror is not an horrific enough word to describe it.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Adstar said:
If they have had the Gospel message put before them and they have rejected it. Yes flung into a Lake of Fire of eternal unending torment. Horror is not an horrific enough word to describe it.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days
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Angels of the Lord's vengance came to me in the night and I was vouchsafed a view of things to come. As I lay in my bed in a state of fear and trembling I saw how I would be conducted to the Lake by two Suomo -angels From afar off, sulphourous fumes assailed my nostrils and mine eyes did stream as my lungs were filled with corrosive vapours. An an angel did show me a sign with a pointing finger beneath which was writ large: THIS WAY TO THE LAKEL And I was greatly afeared and did struggle but my struggling availed me nothing.

Then were mine ears assailed by the shrieks of pain and futile pleadings for mercy which are a feature of that place. And I knew eternal torment just as the Lord in his righteousness has promised. And I saw one who was in greater agony than others, and he was called Adstar, whose torment was increased tenfold for he had broken the commandment which says "do not use computers, tools of Satan, but pick up thy stylus and papyrus and write the Lord's praises"

When I awoke I knew these things were true, so I humbled myself before the Lord and gave my life unto his son Jesus. And the Lord showered his blessings upon me and ordained that I have mine own padded dwelling for the rest of mine earthly days.

All Praise the Lord, the Righteous and the Merciful ! Seek ye refuge in Him !
 
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Carcano said:
A writer in the local paper recently published an article about how he was converting to Catholicism from some other denomination.

His reason? Because there is truth in numbers. He decided that Catholicism must be God's favourite because it has the longest history and the largest number of followers. It makes him feel more secure surrounded by all that tradition and the sheer weight of numbers.

One of the theists on board (Jan Ardena?) recently posted something similar to the effect that Christianity is validated by the existence of so many churches and art inspired in its holy name.

An opposing view was described by Voltaire, who wrote...'nothing of great value is ever found in a crowd.'

He believed that truth was something quite rare and difficult to obtain, seldom if ever found to be popular.

Discuss?
Click to expand...
Jesus said "don't take the path that many follows, cause the road is broad and wide that leads to disaster, but the road is narrow that leads to salvation" (or something like that).
 
Cyperium said:
Jesus said "don't take the path that many follows, cause the road is broad and wide that leads to disaster, but the road is narrow that leads to salvation" (or something like that).
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Assuming Jesus existed and assuming he existed, what does that statement mean ? Is it a plug for the Amish, the Exclusive Brethern, the Jehovah's Witnesses, all of whom see to me to be following a narrow path.
 
Myles said:
Assuming Jesus existed and assuming he existed, what does that statement mean ? Is it a plug for the Amish, the Exclusive Brethern, the Jehovah's Witnesses, all of whom see to me to be following a narrow path.
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The way I see it is that you should have your own belief. I haven't been to church for ages, yet I don't think that my belief is worse than any others. I read the Bible from time to time, but not overly much. Also, I think the broad way might be looking at the messages from the public all the time, always following what is mainstream (even when it is mainstream to not be mainstream and so on...).
 
Carcano,


Have you read Robert Cialdini's Influence. The Psychology of Persuasion? It has by now become a classic, especially in marketing and psychology. I have found it to be a very helpful read; here's a summary.
It looks into the workings of compliance - how come we say yes and how is it that we can be swayed by others into decisions that we otherwise would not make.
Anyway, worth reading.
 
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