Torrents and Sharing

[Stryder]

This post isn't about condoning illegal copyright issues with share networking, as occasionally now the share networks actually have "trialware" from small software contributors knocking about.

However I'm trying to get a better understanding of how to increase your download speeds by working out the best method of sharing upload bandwidth.

Below is a table that contains my findings which compares uploading to 2 people and 4 people.

The iterations stand for how long it takes to upload the file to two people at the same time (Therefore 4 people takes twice as long to upload and this is symbolised by them using 2 iterations to aquire the same file)

A principle of only "whole" files/blocks are shared not partial ones (otherwise people could share what they have as soon as they have it which increases errors.)

<TABLE WIDTH="600" BORDER="1" CELLSPACING=0><SQTBODY><COLDEFS><COLDEF><COLDEF><COLDEF><COLDEF>
<COLDEF><COLDEF><COLDEF></COLDEFS><ROWS><TR><TD COLSTART="1">No Users\Iterations</TD><TD COLSTART="2">1</TD><TD COLSTART="3">2</TD><TD COLSTART="4">3</TD><TD COLSTART="5">4</TD><TD COLSTART="6">5</TD><TD COLSTART="7">6</TD></TR>
<TR><TD COLSTART="1">2 </TD><TD BGCOLOR="#80FF80" COLSTART="2">3 (2 users + Y<BR> ourself)</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#80FF80" COLSTART="3">7 </TD><TD BGCOLOR="#80FF80" COLSTART="4">21</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#80FF80" COLSTART="5">63</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#80FF80" COLSTART="6">189 </TD><TD BGCOLOR="#80FF80" COLSTART="7">567 </TD></TR>
<TR><TD COLSTART="1">4</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#FF8080" COLSTART="2">1 (in the process of uploading still)</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#80FF80" COLSTART="3">5 (4 users + Yourself)<BR> </TD><TD BGCOLOR="#FF8080" COLSTART="4">5 (in the process of uploading still)</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#80FF80" COLSTART="5">25</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#FF8080" COLSTART="6">25 (in the process of uploading still)</TD><TD BGCOLOR="#80FF80" COLSTART="7">125 </TD></TR></ROWS></SQTBODY></TABLE>

Conclusion
If you share set your UPLOAD to only "2", if everyone does that then you'll get faster downloads and things get shared quicker and therefore the load balances. Rather than 1 file thats sought after sitting on one persons computer and being downloaded one at a time (and usually once they've leeched that last little bit they disconnect).

It's also suggested that uploading to one two people lessens the number of controller bytes that are used to throttle a download/upload, therefore you have more bandwidth available than what you would have with 4 people.

(Admittedly 4 is a small number but you can check out other numbers if you wish.

I know some will disagree with it because of how it would only work if people followed it thoroughly, however it would be interesting to see if anyone else has spotted a way to increase speeds in both upload/download.

 

[vslayer]

seeding is a good way to do that. i seed torrents for 1 week or 400%, that adds an extra 10kbps to thi mix for someone. if the next bittorrent, and all other torrent programs had a feature which forced seeding to say, 200% before it would allow the next download to resume. i have a friend who downloads aout 15gb/month and only ups about 1200mb(fucking freedloader). i always turn up his upload speeds whenevr i am on his comp

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Any one else amused at the way a software pirate calls his friend a "fucking freeloader"?

I know I was.

 

[Avatar]

It's not obligatory. In the last three days I've downloaded about 4gb of music, video and software all under Creative Commons or GPL.

 

[vslayer]

Any one else amused at the way a software pirate calls his friend a "fucking freeloader"?

I know I was.

if i was buying something that didnt fund terrorism then i would buy it if i had the money. but since i dont. i get it in a legal way which costs me nothing and doesnt hurt anyone. its not hurting their sales, because people who download it either woludnt buy it for political reasons, or coudnt buy it for econimc reasons.

when someone has bandwidth, and a file that others want, they must then share that file. if no-one shares, then the network collapses. so anyone leeching the file and runnig with the data is jsut like a theif or a suit. they do nothing, they just take what they want givig nothing back to the community they got it from

 

[Avatar]

We have an old saying here since the USSR days: Art belongs to the people.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Sounds like the perfect incentive for artists to go find something else to do in order to make a living, Avatar. Thought it through at all?

And... Microsoft funds terrorism now? Interesting. I suppose it hadn't occured to all the little pirates out there that if everyone actually bought what they were using it would be a hell of a lot cheaper? 'Course not. Any excuse will do, and if you didn't have this one you'd find another reason not to pay for other people's work.
A fucking freeloader is a fucking freeloader, and a thief is a thief. There aren't any excuses. You're just pissed off because other people are stealing from you what you stole from someone else. Perfectly logical.

 

[Avatar]

Thought it through at all?

For artists there are concerts and exhibitions. I'm also currently working on one project and it will be released under the Creative Commons licence free to distribute for anyone who wants.

 

[vslayer]

Koyaanisqatsi,

im pissed off because that is the way the community works, you have to upload in ordre to download. in the real world you haev to work in ordre to pay and not everyone has a job, or a good paying job. in the filesharing world bandwidth is our money, and we all have it. just because you have less, it doesnt mean you are entitiled to less data, but if you have it and dont share it. that is true theft.

 

[vslayer]

and how does microsoft support terrorism?: microsoft payes taxes to the american government which uses that money to fund its terrorist operations overseas

 

[Stryder]

I suppose it hadn't occured to all the little pirates out there that if everyone actually bought what they were using it would be a hell of a lot cheaper?

You might say that however it's prove that if a profit is to be had, then the likelihood is the expense of a product would not come down. I mean for instance if a number of changes in the way a country was run lessened the need for taxation, does a country lower its taxation? In reality they don't in fact they are probably more likely to put it up with a pre-planned amount to make sure they they are never underfunded or caught short.

With that in mind it's a suggestion that MS OS's would stay at the price they are because of that.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

You might say that however it's prove that if a profit is to be had, then the likelihood is the expense of a product would not come down. I mean for instance if a number of changes in the way a country was run lessened the need for taxation, does a country lower its taxation? In reality they don't in fact they are probably more likely to put it up with a pre-planned amount to make sure they they are never underfunded or caught short.

With that in mind it's a suggestion that MS OS's would stay at the price they are because of that.

Has anyone noticed that a student, as an example, can buy a copy of a Microsoft OS for significantly less than other software on the market? Funny how people can afford to buy expensive games, but they can't afford a legal copy of Windows. I can guarantee that half the people here downloading software from Warez sites or peer-to-peer because it's "too expensive" have managed to scrape together the shekels to buy an original game because without a valid cd key, you can't play online.
Care to explain that?

The price of Microsoft products has already been significantly reduced in recent years.
I doubt the pirates have even noticed, because as I said their excuses are just that - excuses. If this one was proven invalid, they'd find another.

In Australia, you can legally download an MP3 for less than a dollar. That's the spare change you have lying around in your bedroom.

I've been known to use pirated software myself, but I also have an extensive library of legal applications - including my Windows OS. All I'm saying here is that software pirates are software pirates - I'm simply tired of hearing excuses for what is, essentially, theft.
If you're a thief, then do yourself and the world a favour and admit it, instead of coming up with ridiculous justifications. I have no moral objection to a restrained form of piracy, but I do have one against those who keep telling themselves and others they have a valid moral reason for it.

 

[invert_nexus]

if i was buying something that didnt fund terrorism then i would buy it if i had the money.

Wow. What an incredibly imaginative excuse. And what was your excuse for pirating software before America became the Great Satan? Why are you ashamed of your actions? Why do you seek to rationalize them?

I've pirated software and I've bought software. I own three copies of XP. (Two copies of Home. One of pro. Not to mention another version of Home OEM for a laptop.) One copy of Windows 95. One copy of Windows ME. (And, by the way, I think Microsoft owes me an apology and a rebate for tricking me into buying ME.)

I am using a pirated version of XP for the simple reason that I don't think I should have to go begging to Microsoft whenever I upgrade my pc. Fuck him.

I've also pirated other softwares. Most of which are outrageously expensive. Far more than they're worth. Usually because they're marketed to either the film business (Sonic Scenarist, for instance, while discontinued, cost 26,000 dollars... Can you believe that shit?) or towards corporate business (Adobe Acrobat Professional. Microsoft Office.) or towards institutional use (Mathematica).

I'm a bit of a pirate and unashamed about it. I don't do it because of some great sociopolitical reason as our politically aware friend vslayer does. I do it for purely selfish reasons. Sometimes I'll buy it. Sometimes I won't. The truth is that I'm somewhat chaotic about my piracy. No real rhyme or reason.

Know what I hate most about piracy?
My dependence upon others. I am unable to crack software. And so must instead be dependent upon the 'good will' of the cracking community (who, by they way, for the most part, don't even want their efforts being put out on p2p. They do what they do for the 'scene'. And their scene is not the scene of moochers (which I am one) in the filesharing 'community'.)

Anyway. I mostly download ebooks. Science magazine, for example. And documentaries and other educational applications on occasion. Very rarely a movie. And I've got all the music I need already. Too much, in fact.


Koya,

And... Microsoft funds terrorism now?

Remember who you're talking to. To vslayer, the US is the Great Satan Terrorist State. He's going to strap on an explosive vest and send himself to Allah someday when he grows up or his mother signs his permission slip.


As to the price of softare...
Stryder makes a very good point on supply and demand. There is no way that Windows would cost a single dime less without software piracy. Not a dime. It was that price before the internet. And will only become more expensive. The only way I can see the price going down is if Linux should ever become simple enough and popular enough to threaten them. That's the only language Gates understands. Competition. He's the king of his world and he owns his customers... through licensing agreements that few of them read.

The price of Microsoft products has already been significantly reduced in recent years.

No. I haven't noticed. I must admit that I haven't bought an OS in about... three years. You could get an OEM version of Pro for 100 bucks. The regular version for 200. As far as I know it's still that price. It seems to me that the price has stayed pretty damn steady for years.

Heh.
Oh?
Prices have dropped?
They're more expensive than I remember.
http://www.officedepot.com/browse.do?N=1000000494+10324+4294951060
XP Pro full edition. $299.00
XP Pro Upgrade. $199.00
XP Home Full $199.00
XP Home Upgrade $99.00

The prices have dropped?
I presume you're talking about online sales? Sure. You can shop around and find deals. But I look at software from office supply stores as the true price index. And that shows no change. None.
Unless... you're talking about the price of windows 95? Ha!



Aaaanyway.
As to the topic.

To tell the truth, I've never really noticed much of a difference. I know that download speeds are supposed to be based on a 'tit for tat' priniciple, but it just doesn't seem to make a difference to me. Sometimes I get practically no download speed at all despite maxing out my upload (I set no limits on upload speed. I'm not a 'freeloader'. In fact, I've got a ratio of about 6 over at BitMe. Only about 2 at Demonoid.) And sometimes I get huge download speeds with virtually no upload.

I use Azureus, by the way. Which... I wish there were another client like it out there that didn't use Java. I don't like the 50 megs of ram it takes up. Plus, it seems to hog resources if you leave it running for awhile with your computer idling. You come back and everything is crawling until it catches up.

 

[Neildo]

Heh, never buy anything that has to deal with computers at retail stores, unless you want to be spending 50-100% more. I can't remember the last time I've actually bought a computer component from a store other than a PC game.

- N

 

[invert_nexus]

True. But the point is that the price remains firm. If Microsoft had dropped their prices then they would be reflected in lower prices at retail.

It's not that the prices have dropped, but that alternatives sources for purchase have become more common. No thanks to Microsoft.

 

[furtivefelon]

... Interesting. I suppose it hadn't occured to all the little pirates out there that if everyone actually bought what they were using it would be a hell of a lot cheaper? 'Course not. Any excuse will do, and if you didn't have this one you'd find another reason not to pay for other people's work.

greed knows no limit.. If they can make more money, why would they drop their price?? When they sell hundreds of millions of copys of a software app, you'd think that they'd drop their price at least down below 100 US dollors.. but nooo, still $199 for win xp home last time i checked in Best Buy..

When more people are downloading instead of buying, they have to drop their price or spending millions on legal actions, either way, they are paying for their high prices.. The more they rise the price, the more pirated copy there will be, and the less money they will gain in the long run, so it's actually a downward spiral to doom's day if you ask me..

 

[Avatar]

so it's actually a downward spiral to doom's day if you ask me..

Why do you say so? Corporations will always continue to bue legal versions, besides there is a lot of exellent GPL software and imho Linux is a lot better than Windows anyways.

 

[vslayer]

Has anyone noticed that a student, as an example, can buy a copy of a Microsoft OS for significantly less than other software on the market? Funny how people can afford to buy expensive games, but they can't afford a legal copy of Windows. I can guarantee that half the people here downloading software from Warez sites or peer-to-peer because it's "too expensive" have managed to scrape together the shekels to buy an original game because without a valid cd key, you can't play online.
Care to explain that?

i cant. the last piece of software i was able to afford was diablo 2. since then everything has been released at $100. the closest i ever came to buying software up until about 2002 was when 5 of us split the insane cost among us, and worked out what nights each of us could use the CD key.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I've been working in IT for over 10 years now. I can tell you now, straight out, that prices for Microsoft Windows have dropped.

I'm selling, in Australia, Academic versions of XP Home for $199.00.
XP Pro Academic for $255.00. Those versions can now be sold in a retail box with a legit key off the shelf, to students. Anyone with kids in the family at school can buy them - I'm selling more of these than regular copies.

OEM versions (sold with a new pc or non-peripheral hardware purchase) sell at around the same prices - XP Home I'm currently doing for $155.00, XP Pro about $250.00.

Now bear in mind these are Australian prices - not US. Therefore, that magical 100 dollar mark someone mentioned is pretty close - you shouldn't be buying them for anywere near US$199.00, given current exchange rates and import taxes.

So maybe you yanks should be querying your software vendors rather than Microsoft. If I can make a decent profit at these prices (and I'm in the country, so I can inflate even more than City sellers can), then I highly doubt Microsoft is the source of the pricing. As little as 6 months ago I was selling the same software at about $20.00 more than this, and two years ago, about a hundred dollars more. The academic versions weren't even available other than through licensed school distributors who had to order them specifically from Microsoft.
Things have changed.

On to other software vendors. Everyone loves using apps like Alcohol to do... various things. Alcohol is one of those apps regularly downloaded for nix from bittorent sources. Now... I bought a copy of APC (Australian Personal Computer) magazine the other day which had a legal, freeware version of Alcohol on it - for 10 bucks. So it wasn't the latest version - who cares? It works.
And this is just an example. Most of the better magazines these days have a dvd-rom packed with goodies, most of which are free.

Another question - all you kids who say you can't afford Windows. Where are you getting your PC from? And those games you play - how can you afford the hardware necessary to play them? Some of the latest titles require some fairly gutsy internals. Who is paying for that?
I'm not saying all of you can afford even these prices. But it occurs to me that at least half of the participants in this kind of thread are the ones in other threads bragging about their athlon 64-bit system with a you bewt graphics card and a gig of ram.
Bittorrent apps currently account for around 30% of all internet traffic, and I can guarantee that the vast majority of this is not legal sharing. That's a lot of people using bittorent. A lot. Are you all trying to tell me that this almost a third of internet users are also the ones who are so poor they can't afford a hundred bucks?
Bullshit.
Frankly, you haven't got a leg to stand on.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Why do you say so? Corporations will always continue to bue legal versions, besides there is a lot of exellent GPL software and imho Linux is a lot better than Windows anyways.

Linux isn't "better" than windows. It's simply less bloated, and practically virus/spyware free. It's a clean OS which has had the luxury of being able to be developed without needing to patch security holes every time some bright little clown decides to analyse it for exploits in order to fuck over as many people as possible.

The reason for that is that those who write viruses and spyware target the largest market share - which is Windows, and thus Microsoft are constantly forced to release upgrades and security patches. If Linux ever reaches the same volume of use that Windows has and therefore becomes a target for malware etc, then watch how bloated and insecure it becomes.
I have a linux machine myself - I'm not biased. This is simply how it is.

And being in the repair and retail industry, my experience proves the majority of windows users are those who have no idea how to properly maintain their computer - thus the cry of "Winblows sucks" are usually those with no clue as to how to keep it running smoothly. You know, the same ones who complain to the retailer about their crappy car when they're the ones who forgot to keep the oil levels up. One of my XP pc's has been running for nearly 5 months now without a single restart.
Linux users are usually those who have a reasonable idea of how computers work, and therefore tend to be the more knowledgeable ones who keep their machines running well - not your average Mom and Pop who buy a computer and use it without any idea of how to maintain it. Try giving them a Linux machine and see if they can use it.