Too complex to be intelligently designed?

G

Gondolin

Hell hath no fury like squid
Registered Senior Member
I've been thinking about this for quite a while. The world to me seems too complex to be designed by something intelligent. That may sound totally backwards, but you have to think about it. Wouldn't the smartest design to be the simplest? Why create something overly complex with so many variables? Why create other systems besides around billions of stars besides ours? The universe just seems to complex.

Does any of that make sense?

Discuss.
 
This is... well strange.

How can something be too complex to be intelligent? Sounds like an oxymoron to me.
 
''Well it started pretty simple.''

I'm assuming you think that small is... simple. Well, your wrong.
 
nietzschefan said:
Well it started pretty simple.
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That's what I think. I was just putting the idea out there.

I don't believe in a creator, but I was wondering IF the world/universe was intelligently created, why is it so complex and so full of fluff?
 
Intelligently created, does not illiminate complexity. Would you say this to Michelangelo's picture on the sistine chapel?
 
The whole “intelligent design” argument is just the latest version of the same old lame “since we can’t perfectly explain why it’s happening, it must have been magic!” explanation that ignorant people have been using for millennia. It used to be used for everything from lightening (the gods throwing something at people) to the sun (the gods riding a flaming chariot across the sky) to disease (someone put a curse on you, an evil spirit attacked you, etc.). Of course, today we have good explanations for those things, so no one takes the “it was magic” explanation seriously any more. Now that argument is only reserved for the most difficult, complex questions that humans haven’t yet been able to provide a natural explanation for. Attributing what we can’t explain to magic has been proven wrong virtually every time we’ve done it throughout history. It’s an explanation with a terrible track record. 99.999% of the stuff that we used to think was magical has ended up not being magical once we explored it thoroughly enough. It’s kind of hard to believe that people are still clinging to it for the last few unanswered questions. It's kind of like building 1000 buildings, and after 997 of them have collapsed still stubbornly claiming that the last 3 are safe.
 
Baron Max said:
I know this might come as a shock to you, but god is probably smarter than you. :D

Baron Max
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Really? I thought he was the guy downtown. You know, the one claiming to be God?

I know this is an odd question, but it's just something I thought up. I didn't expect everyone to jump on.
 
Let's face it, "god(s)" has always been the "force" attributed to all things unexplainable. Even now we can see really fucking stupid stuff directly attributed to "god" in the past and realize the rediculous situation for some "modern" religions based on ancient superstitious bullshit.

On the other hand we still have a whole lotta stuff we still cannot fathom the cause of and it is all to easy to just go...well heck ain't God great?
 
I dont think of it in terms of design alone but in purpose. When organisms interact and rely on one another it is very difficult to rule our design. To me it is impossible, i see nature left to its own devices to consist of little more than a mud hole, it is this sense of purpose, vision and expectation of a future that leads me to believe life\ecosystems can not be replicated with out planning.
 
John99 said:
I dont think of it in terms of design alone but in purpose. When organisms interact and rely on one another it is very difficult to rule our design. To me it is impossible, i see nature left to its own devices to consist of little more than a mud hole, it is this sense of purpose, vision and expectation of a future that leads me to believe life\ecosystems can not be replicated with out planning.
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Oh and do not rule out than one organism could "design" another. We humans for instance are very close(perhaps already are) to this.
 
nietzschefan said:
Oh and do not rule out than one organism could "design" another. We humans for instance are very close(perhaps already are) to this.
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It is just a clone and could not be accomplished without base material and letting it grow from there. THIS is NOT creation, there is no original idea anyway.
 
John99 said:
It is just a clone and could not be accomplished without base material and letting it grow from there. THIS is NOT creation, there is no original idea anyway.
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Actually, there have been some major advances that are leading to totally new organisms being created. It's quite fascinating, and if you just search for "new organisms and life being created" you are sure to find something about it (can't post links yet, grr.)


As for the OP, if I were to assume there was a God (I don't), I'd think that he'd be omniscient and thus would know exactly what to do. I'm sure that there'll eventually be games with basically exact-human AI. If us, humans, can make something that complex then surely a God that is assumed to be an infinite amount of times smarter than us can too.
 
Actually, the argument makes sense. Any intelligence would seem to be limited by the space of its own brain. And the complexity of the universe would surely dwarf any such brain, provided the brain knew exactly how the universe would evolve. Of course, who could create the universe but a God. And God doesn't have a limited brain.
 
John99 said:
It is just a clone and could not be accomplished without base material and letting it grow from there. THIS is NOT creation, there is no original idea anyway.
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Wasn't really talking about cloning.

Anyways "designed" DNA is going to be possible and is a factor outside the "normal" paradigm of evolution.
 
Gondolin said:
Wouldn't the smartest design to be the simplest? Why create something overly complex with so many variables?
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The world is as simple as possible. Try to create conscious being equal to a human that is less complex.

Why create other systems besides around billions of stars besides ours?
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God wanted to create life on many places.

Nasor said:
The whole “intelligent design” argument is just the latest version of the same old lame “since we can’t perfectly explain why it’s happening, it must have been magic!” explanation that ignorant people have been using for millennia.
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And the argument is still as perfect as it has always been. There is simply no other explanation than God. People used to call it magic. Now scientists call it "law of nature" or something like that, and just because they have changed the name they think they have explained it.
 
Yorda said:
And the argument is still as perfect as it has always been. There is simply no other explanation than God. People used to call it magic. Now scientists call it "law of nature" or something like that, and just because they have changed the name they think they have explained it.
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So you believe in magic?

Anyway, law of nature is something that is based on observations of physical, empirical evidence. Creationism is most certainly not that. Some scientists makes call it law of nature if they're crazy or uninformed. Real scientists call it BS.

Yorda said:
God wanted to create life on many places.
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So that he could make it miserable? Disease, war, famine, poverty, hate - all exist. Why would a benevolent god allow this?
 
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