To those who don't believe in God, yet are still talking about him

[water]

To those who don't believe in God, yet are still talking about him


I wonder: Many here declare that they don't believe in God, that believing in God is utter nonsense, that believing in God would be an insult to their intelligence etc.

But why are you talking about God then?

You don't believe in Santa -- and you don't talk about him. Why not?


If believing in God is as stupid and irrational as believing in Santa, then why do you keep on giving reasons for not believing in God, while you don't go on about why you don't believe in Santa?

 

[fadeaway humper]

Gee, I don't know... maybe because there aren't (yet) any fascist cults dedicated to the worshipping of Santa?

 

[anonymous2]

To those who don't believe in God, yet are still talking about him


I wonder: Many here declare that they don't believe in God, that believing in God is utter nonsense, that believing in God would be an insult to their intelligence etc.

But why are you talking about God then?

You don't believe in Santa -- and you don't talk about him. Why not?


If believing in God is as stupid and irrational as believing in Santa, then why do you keep on giving reasons for not believing in God, while you don't go on about why you don't believe in Santa?

In a way, I think you are right. God/gods have been the way to explain what occurs in life, even when Zeus was thought to throw lightning bolts or whatever. Science has found natural explanations for things which used to be assigned to divine power(s), but until science explains everything (which I think will be never), "God" will be the explanation for things we don't know/can't know. Personally, I don't think believing in God is irrational, but if mankind just accepted things we don't know/understand as coming from God, how far would science have gotten? I don't think believing in God, per se, is irrational, but I can't quite seem to stomach the Biblical God.

 

[SnakeLord]

But why are you talking about God then?

That's what debates and discussions are. It need not be real to talk about it. My friend and I often discuss Star Trek Voyager, and although neither of us believe Captain Janeway is stuck in the delta quadrant with vicious aliens, that has never stopped us talking about it.

If for some reason he turned round and said it was true, I'd be all the more inclined to debate the issue - not only to see why he thinks it's true, but to offer a different perspective and understanding.

I suppose the question could be turned around to you. Tell me why you're talking about god to people that don't believe in such a being? I mean why bother, we might aswell just all say "you don't think the way I do, there's no point talking about it", and be on our merry way. Forget that, we might aswell just all spend our lives looking at the walls instead of bothering to ever talk to anyone about anything.

You don't believe in Santa -- and you don't talk about him. Why not?

If there were a whole bunch of people that said he was real, we would be talking about it. I guess we still can... Tell me, why don't you believe Santa is real? You can't disprove his existence.

If believing in God is as stupid and irrational as believing in Santa, then why do you keep on giving reasons for not believing in God, while you don't go on about why you don't believe in Santa?

The world is full of bizarre people that believe in stupid things. Religion is at the front of human daftness, and gets most of the attention.

 

[path]

Quite simply because the idea and the worship of god has a major impact in our lives whether we believe in god or not.

 

[SKULLZ]

People do talk about santa quiet alot actually,
santa is gods nemesis,santa is the bad guy:

santa is an anagram of satan,its just the n moved infront of the a.

We call santa st.nick,we call satan old nick.

And the mythology of santa and christmas is somewhat pagan.

Santa is satan,theres as much evidence of that as there is of gods existence,so i believe its worth mentioning.

I dont think there is anything wrong with talking about santa claus,cos it has a lot of history and mystery surrounding it,and that makes it a good story.

Santa clause we were made to believe was "all powerful" with his god like abilities,in fact santa is a god by definition,he knows if you are naughty or nice,can defy the laws of physics and can be in everyones house all in one night.

Santa promotes eating large quantaties of food and alcohol,he is the red fat imp taunting you to commit sin,and putting material things of importance,you have to worship him in some way to recieve your presents.
Satan is the father of lies,santa is the father of christmas shitting on jesus's name.

And so the next time one of you pesky christians tells his christian kid to ask santa for something-remember you are asking him to pray to satan the false god,bwuahahahahaa.

Stop getting children to worship demons,for it says in
(Matthew 4:10). Having been foiled, Satan obviously has had to resort to other means of stealing the glory due to God alone. Take a closer look at Santa Claus, and decide for yourself if he be Saint, Sinner or Something More.

 

[Godless]

To those who don't believe in God, yet are still talking about him

Because 99.04% of the population around us are claiming that an entity they can't even provide evidence of its existence or identify what it is, is real.

The other .06% population are the ones waiting for some emperical evidence to the others assertions. But dont worry the meak shall inherit the earth.

When your done destroying the earth for your gods, or armagedons, jihads, or what nots, the ones to shine will be the non-believers, we were right after all no one came to save your ass. YOU ARE ALL ALONE!!.

Godless.

 

[water]

In a way, I think you are right. God/gods have been the way to explain what occurs in life, even when Zeus was thought to throw lightning bolts or whatever. Science has found natural explanations for things which used to be assigned to divine power(s), but until science explains everything (which I think will be never), "God" will be the explanation for things we don't know/can't know.

Well, science certainly can dig into the HOW of phenomena, and, depending on the state of technology, the answer to how changes over time (e.g. how an atom is made: at first they thought it is a whole, then found that it is made of particles ...).

What remains elusive is the WHY, as why asks about reason or purpose. If we are to be truly and exclusively scientific, we should not ask any why-questions, actually. Yet people do ask why. Why do people ask why-questions?

Personally, I don't think believing in God is irrational, but if mankind just accepted things we don't know/understand as coming from God, how far would science have gotten?

Scientific development is about how, not about why. As such, science does not interfere with religion.

The only trouble, as I see it, is that in history, the how and the why were treated as one. And this causes the major turmoil when it comes to the science vs. religion dichotomy.

I don't think believing in God, per se, is irrational, but I can't quite seem to stomach the Biblical God.

The "Biblical God" is marked with the story of a certain people, and interpreted in that manner, and also interpreted in the manner that those professing to believe in this God presented this God. So to take what the Bible and Christian history are saying about God to be all there is to say about God, is a hasty generalization and a strawman.

***

That's what debates and discussions are.

Okay.

I suppose the question could be turned around to you. Tell me why you're talking about god to people that don't believe in such a being?

Personally, I am not a member of any organized religion.

It irks me to see people say "I don't believe in God because this is there is no reason to believe in God" and then they go and bash believers, and it later on turns out that the person in question simply hates God and has a distaste for religion. Which is understandable. But why then don't they simply say "I hate God and religionists" -- why *rationalize* this hate into "I don't believe in God because there is no reason to believe in God"??

I mean why bother, we might aswell just all say "you don't think the way I do, there's no point talking about it", and be on our merry way.

But this happens very rarely, does it not?! Why is this so rare?

Forget that, we might aswell just all spend our lives looking at the walls instead of bothering to ever talk to anyone about anything.

Then I'll rephrase: Why do you think that people talk about things? (I know that the question is simple, but please ebar with me.)

If there were a whole bunch of people that said he was real, we would be talking about it.

To children, Santa is very real, and they do talk about him. In fact, the adults are supporting them to believe so, and the whole Christmas industry is set up around believing in Santa. That's a lot of time, money and effort to make someone believe in someting that supposedly doesn't exist. What a trick!

I guess we still can... Tell me, why don't you believe Santa is real? You can't disprove his existence.

Which Santa isn't real? The one whose lap I sat on when I was 4 was very real, or I had nowhere to sit. Sure, a man (whom I otherwise knew) was dressed up as Santa, but what he was *presenting*, what that man dressed up as Santa *meant*, that felt real.

“ If believing in God is as stupid and irrational as believing in Santa, then why do you keep on giving reasons for not believing in God, while you don't go on about why you don't believe in Santa? ”

The world is full of bizarre people that believe in stupid things.

Do you think that children are stupid, for believing in Santa?

***

Quite simply because the idea and the worship of god has a major impact in our lives whether we believe in god or not.

Interesting. Very interesting.
Why is this so -- why would the idea of believing in God have a major impact in our lives whether we believe in God or not?
Why the major impact for those who believe in God?
Why the major impact for those who don't believe in God?

***

“ To those who don't believe in God, yet are still talking about him ”
Because 99.04% of the population around us are claiming that an entity they can't even provide evidence of its existence or identify what it is, is real.

I suppose they have some reason to do so.

The other .06% population are the ones waiting for some emperical evidence to the others assertions.

Where did you get those numbers?

When your done destroying the earth for your gods, or armagedons, jihads, or what nots, the ones to shine will be the non-believers, we were right after all no one came to save your ass. YOU ARE ALL ALONE!!.

Chances are that those who will be "destroying Earth for their Gods" will be thorough, and nobody will be left to say who was right.

 

[beyondtimeandspace]

SKULLZ* santa is an anagram of satan,its just the n moved infront of the a.

Actually that is merely coincidence. Santa Claus is a name, which is actually Saint Nikolas. I'm not sure which language Santa comes, but it's part of the romance languages which have their roots in latin and greek. Santa originated from the Latin term Sancta, which means holy, or, if part of a name, saint.

SKULLZ* And the mythology of santa and christmas is somewhat pagan.

Christmas, as a holiday, is rooted in an ancient roman holiday celebrated on December 25. The feast day of St. Nikolas is Dec. 12. I really don't know why it became associated with December 25. Perhaps it has to do with the Christian celebration of Christ's birth, a day on which God gave His only son. Saint Nikolas was a Catholic Bishop who was known for his exceeding generosity, and help for the poor. You can see how much that story has morphed, so that the real story of Santa Claus is entirely obscured.

 

[path]

Interesting. Very interesting.
Why is this so -- why would the idea of believing in God have a major impact in our lives whether we believe in God or not?
Why the major impact for those who believe in God?
Why the major impact for those who don't believe in God?

Because religious attitudes, when there is a majority of believers, influence politics, rule of law, and social mores. Some would claim that we went to war in iraq BECAUSE GW (he has been quoted to that affect) believes that he has been given a mission from god. Osama and Co base their politics and actions on religious belief can you say you haven't been effected? etc...

 

[fadeaway humper]

Do you think that children are stupid, for believing in Santa?

Children have an excuse.

 

[Repo Man]

I covered this in an old thread:
A big reason I come to places like this online is so I can voice my opinion about the sort of Mindless dogma PM and his ilk spew.
I have to deal with people like PM everyday. They aren't Muslim, but different though the dogma may be, the certainty of being right is the same.

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure, while the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

”

That is, and probably always will be, my favorite quote ever. When the joker in the car in front of me has a bumper sticker that says "Warning, in case of Rapture, this vehicle will be unoccupied", I sigh, and think of that quote.
When I have to listen to talk radio, and the verbal diarrhea of Limbaugh, Hannity, and Savage, I remember that quote.

This thread was started to address the same sort of frustration I feel. Surrounded by mindless lowing bovine individuals who reject evolution because it is too damaging to their self esteem, yet who's lives are made possible by the very science that they only dimly understand, and regularly ridicule. Cognitive dissonance is the only thing that allows them to get through their day. Posting their ignorance using computers!

I can't tell these people how much contempt I have for them in real life, I have to live among them. It gives me some insight into how closeted gays must feel.

I actually like most people I meet as individuals. But my respect plummets when I find out they believe in Christianity, Islam, Astrology, or any other silly superstition.

I think James Maynard Keenan said it best.

Some say a comet will fall from the sky.
Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves.
Followed by faultlines that cannot sit still.
Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits.

Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will cuz
I sure could use a vacation from this

”

Though it would be a horrible end, I have to say I would take a certain satisfaction in being here while a comet came down. As the cosmos gave a graphic demonstration of how little regard it holds for humans or the planet we are presently destroying on our own, my last thoughts would be, "where is your god now, you stupid sons of bitches?"

Another favorite quote:

It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this.
-- Bertrand Russell, from from "An Outline of Intellectual
Rubbish" in the collection, Unpopular Essays

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=523680#post523680

 

[SnakeLord]

Personally, I am not a member of any organized religion.

Apologies, it was a general "you"

why *rationalize* this hate into "I don't believe in God because there is no reason to believe in God"??

People seem to have a distinct dislike to 'hatred'. You can't just go round telling people how much you hate them anymore. It's all turned PC and "love thy enemy" - People seem so intent on 'hiding' human emotion. As such, people rationalize instead of just being honest. Sure, saying "god's a stupid ass", is of a lot more worth than saying "page 8 verse 3 has a contradiction" - but it's likely to illicit a "don't talk unless you have a real reason" response.

But this happens very rarely, does it not?! Why is this so rare?

Because we're all right, everyone else is wrong. When someone says something that is clearly twoddle, we like to set the record straight. This leads to 6 billion people all setting the record straight, or for ease of winning an argument - dropping a few large bombs.

Then I'll rephrase: Why do you think that people talk about things?

Originally god gave us a voice so he could hear us begging for forgiveness. But! he made an oopsie with his creation due to a faulty mathematical formula, so instead we now just talk about anything.

To children, Santa is very real, and they do talk about him. In fact, the adults are supporting them to believe so, and the whole Christmas industry is set up around believing in Santa. That's a lot of time, money and effort to make someone believe in someting that supposedly doesn't exist. What a trick!

Yep.

Which Santa isn't real?

The one who is said to fly around the world on a sleigh, get stuck in chimneys, eat cookies and dump useless wooden toys under trees. We don't want wooden toys or cuckoo clocks damnit, we want playstation!

Do you think that children are stupid, for believing in Santa?

No, only the parents for being the very ones to 'train' their children into a life of fantasy.

 

[water]

Godless your numbers suck. First of all, they don't even add up to 100%. Secondly, between 900 million - 1 billion people in the world are nonreligious. That's about 15% of the population. Atheists alone number in the 220-240 million, or about 4% of the population.

Actually, that calculation ought to be even more difficult as there is no consensus as to whether, for example, Buddhism and Taosim are "religions" or merely "philosophies". So should one count the Buddhists and Taoists (not to mention others) as religious or non-religious?

 

[(Q)]

But why are you talking about God then?

You don't believe in Santa -- and you don't talk about him. Why not?

How many people have been tortured and killed in the name of Santa?

 

[locknroll]

There will be lots of talking about Santa - COME DECEMBER!!!!
Plus, Santa has been widely discredited (are you 5?)

 

[locknroll]

Hey GOD IS SANTA!
If you're really good he'll give you a preSENT! :m:

 

[SnakeLord]

 

[Neildo]

How many people have been tortured and killed in the name of Santa?

Ever see a kid who didn't get what he wanted for Christmas? *shudders*

- N

 

[JustARide]

I know Rosa is probably after some Jungian answer here, but the truth is that unbelievers' reasons for discussing God vary from the pseudo-sacred to the reactionary.

For instance, why are Christians in America suddenly talking about Islam and Allah?

Because shit blew up.