To hate Jews is to hate God.

[Greatest I am]

To hate Jews is to hate God.

If you believe in the sacrifice of Jesus, then you must believe that God planned for it and set the conditions even before the earth was formed. If as most believe, the Jews were the cause of the sacrifice, then one must believe that God put the notion and desire to kill Jesus in the Jewish hearts. Jews then were God’s tools in carrying out God’s plan. Jews then should be venerated just as Jesus is because Jesus and Jews were required and caused by God to participate in the sacrifice. They were all doing God’s will and not their own.

Jesus was a Jew and to hate Jews means that Jesus is also hated. The church has historically persecuted Jews and only repented for their actions in 2011 with the pope acknowledging that not all Jews should be hated. Just those directly involved in the sacrifice of Jesus. Ignoring of course that they were charged directly by God to be and do what God wanted.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/jews-not-responsible-for-death-of-christ-pope-says-49267/

Why then have Christians historically hated Jews, and by inference, hate the Jew part of God/Jesus the Jew?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKg4HLsu5gE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott15j2KwQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U

The weird twist to this history is that the Christian right who hates Jews the most, is now the ones pushing for funding of the Jewish homeland to fulfill prophesy.

Most Jews do not believe that Jesus was the messiah. Is the Christian right just funding Jews to help drive them to destruction at the hands of God?

Jews tend not to read the O. T. the way Christians do. Are Christian interpretations of Jewish text superior or inferior to the Jewish interpretation of their own myths?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I asked a well-informed Jewish friend to comment before I posted this and this is what he had to say.

Modern Jews and ancient Jews for one. I suppose you are concerned about modern Jewish opinion. Yes, some modern Jews are concerned that Christian Right support isn't for the best, that there is a hidden agenda to benefit Christian Right at the expense of Jews. Other modern Jews (particularly Israeli Right) don't care if there is a hidden agenda or not, they are happy to take anyone's support. These same cynical guys gave and took support from White S African racists (prior to Mandela liberation) and supported the White S African nuclear weapons program. Such people are typically atheist Israeli Jews BTW. Religious Jews generally distrust any Christians bearing gifts (they are Greeks of a sort anyway). Atheists Jews aren't particular, they will take support from anyone (see their behavior in the early Soviet Union). Modern Israel was founded by atheist socialist Jews (the Bund). Religious Jews prior to 1948 and some even prior to 1967 did not believe that Israel should be re-established, without the Messiah. Some religious Jews still believe this (Naturei Karta) and these Jews have cordial relations with Hamas. Such Jews of course would be anathema to the Christian Right. The Christian Right doesn't mind atheist Jews, because they believe all Jews atheist or not will be damned by G-d. Some of the Christian Right also believe that the Jews are not real Jews, only Gentiles are Jews (at least some are seen as such, such as the British Royal Family ... see Anglo-American Israelitism). Many Gentiles believe that modern Jews are of impure "race" anyway, or are even nephelim (angelic spawned demons). A good book on the death of Jesus (at least in literature if not in fact) is "Who Killed Jesus?" by John Dominic Crossan.

Actually I would say that to hate anyone, is to hate G-d ... so some of the verses of the Bible are clearly not inspired, because hate is talked about positively at times. It is possible that some verses are meant ironically. The other thing your scheme implies is that of Pauline predetermination. Paul clearly went beyond predestination to predetermination. He didn't believe in free will, and pointedly talked about his lack of free will, and resulting lack of responsibility, in the beginning of the Epistle to the Romans. In no way did Jesus ever talk in those terms, but then Paul wasn't a follower of the fictional synoptic Jesus (aka a historical Jesus), but of a gnostic angelic figure (vision on the road to Damascus) more like the Johannine Jesus. I don't believe the idea of a realistic Jesus even occurred to anyone until after the destruction of Jerusalem, which was after Paul's death. The realistic synoptic Jesus was turned into the historical Jesus by Christian argumentation. The actual Johannine gospel came last, but its ideas were first, having been written in reaction to the synoptic Jesus, who was written in reaction to the Gnostic Jesus aka Avalokiteshvara and the Gnostic Virgin Mary (Prajnaparamita).

There are lots of reasons for Christians to hate Jews and vice versa:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13855238

But I don't think it has ever been legitimate, that is ... it is an expression of sin not virtue. Christians and Muslims should especially value Jewish people, but they are violent, immoral, jealous, stupid (well that is the Jewish stereotype).

Shalom

 

[spidergoat]

By that reasoning, Judas too should be praised.

 

[Saturnine Pariah]

What if one does not believe in god, has a desire to abolish organized religion and if that said god(s) exist hates it/them 100%? :scratchin:

 

[Greatest I am]

By that reasoning, Judas too should be praised.

Absolutely. He was doing the will of God.
If he did not, to Christians, we would not be washed in Jesus' blood. A rather ugly thought but that is Christianity's problem. They believe in human sacrifice and punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

What if one does not believe in god, has a desire to abolish organized religion and if that said god(s) exist hates it/them 100%? :scratchin:

Then you would be a good Gnostic Christian candidate and understanding from that POV would end the hate you feel as it would be exchanged for knowledge and understanding of why things are as they are.

Regards
DL

 

[Epictetus]

By that reasoning, Judas too should be praised.

In Nikos Kazantzakis' novel The Last Temptation the author does just that. Perhaps you've seen the film based on the novel?

Anyway in The Last Temptation Jesus and Judas are portrayed as best friends until the very end with Judas urging JC forward on his mission (to the cross). One or the other of the characters says that Judas was given the job of betrayal because he is stronger than Jesus.

 

[spidergoat]

Then all evil can be justified as part of God's plan and therefore good. Any ideology that calls evil good is irredeemably perverse.

 

[Greatest I am]

Then all evil can be justified as part of God's plan and therefore good. Any ideology that calls evil good is irredeemably perverse.

True.

But.

In evolutionary terms, what we would call evil, evolution would call good as it is a requirement to itself. Let me explain.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.


Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.

Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.

Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from. God or nature.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

Regards
DL

 

[Saturnine Pariah]

Then you would be a good Gnostic Christian candidate and understanding from that POV would end the hate you feel as it would be exchanged for knowledge and understanding of why things are as they are.

Regards
DL

Not Christian....nor have any other form of organized religious faith.

 

[Greatest I am]

Not Christian....nor have any other form of organized religious faith.

Gnostic Christian is not particularly an organized faith. To Christians, we are the goats to their sheeople. Gnostic Christians are perpetual seekers and just criticize foolish Christian notions and morals using their own twisted views against them. That is why they killed many of us and burned our scripture when Constantine bought the church.

But I understand YPOV and agree with it.

Regards
DL