Yazata
Valued Senior Member
Three Claims of Uniformitarian Naturalism
- Thread starter SetiAlpha6
- Start date
Still its you and your cohorts that find it necessary to keep trying to ram such nonsense down our throats. Why is that?
Does your same lack of standards, credibility and empirical evidence, also apply to those pushing conspiracies? So in your eyes perhaps NASA did not go to the Moon? Perhaps 9/11 was an inside job? Perhaps we are being visited by anal probing Aliens?
From where I sit your apparent philosophical inspired fence sitting, reflects a closeted belief.
Nothing wrong with that mind you, but as I said to the fanatical creationist, don't use your belief to denigrate science and attempt to ram it down my throat.
No one is holding you or forcing you to participate in any of these discussions. But I appreciate you for doing so!!!
What does the prevelance of a belief (or lack of belief) have to do with its veracity? Are you really trying to appeal to popularity?
Care to explain just what it is you think you're responding to with these comments? Can you take us through what you think Yazata has said, break it down, and show how you think your comments actually address them rather than be the non sequiturs they appear to be?
Thanks.
Your comprehension is faulty.
Whether I participate or not is of no consequence. You know that. You are still attempting to deride science and ram your crap down our throats. Are your own beliefs faulty in your own mind, and this crusade is your attempt in supporting it?
Consistently, I find a great depth of insight, knowledge, and wisdom in you!!!
Do you ever find yourself being skeptical of skepticism?
That's nice. So what's your definition of Atheism?
All I'm saying is that we have no empirical evidence for the existence of any supernatural creator or IDer, and that the universe and life is explained by scientific means. Nothing more, nothing less. Am I an Atheist?
No, to all of that.
So why do you attempt to come to a science forum, and conduct futile crusades against science?
Like a previous question I put to you that you failed to answer, I don't barge into church on Sunday preaching science, the BB and the theory/fact of evolution?
You must therefor have some shortcomings, or is this due to some request from your bible with regards to recruiting more to your way and beliefs?
Found this and I believe it is relevant......
https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/talking-apes/201808/why-do-people-believe-in-god
extracts:
"Mercier and colleagues divide the proximate causes of religious belief into three types: cognitive, motivational, and societal. One cognitive factor is an analytical thinking style. People who tend to act according to reason rather than intuition are also less likely to believe in God. Perhaps relatedly, we also see a tendency for people who are higher in intelligence to hold agnostic or atheistic beliefs. In contrast, people who are high in what’s commonly called “emotional intelligence”—that is, the ability to easily discern the emotions and motives of others—also tend to be more religious. Of course, it’s exactly this ability to read others’ minds that led to the rise of religious belief in the first place, hundreds of thousands of years ago on the African savanna.
There are also motivational reasons for religious belief. People who are socially isolated tend to have more religious faith, perhaps allowing them to feel they’re not truly alone. Likewise, people facing death are more likely to express faith in God and an afterlife. The old saying that there are no atheists on the battlefield is no doubt true to a large extent. Furthermore, faith in God increases when situations become uncontrollable, as in the case of natural disasters. Believing that God has a plan helps people regain some sense of control, or at least of acceptance.
Another motivational factor is self-enhancement. If you live in a society where religion is prized, it’s in your best interest to say you believe, whether you truly do or not. I’m sure there are plenty of doubters in the pews at Sunday services, though none will admit it. (I was one of those for most of my teenage years.) And it’s not uncommon to hear stories of priests or pastors who’ve lost their faith but continue to preach because it’s the only way they can make a living
Finally, there are societal factors that influence the degree of religious belief within societies. As a general rule, religious belief is considerably lower in developed countries compared with the underdeveloped world. For instance, Japan has one of the highest standards of living in the world, but only 4 percent of its population claims to be religious. Traditionally, Japan was a Buddhist country, and religion played an important role in the daily lives of the Japanese until after World War II. A similar trend has occurred in Western Europe, which many social scientists now characterize as “post-Christian.”
The United States, with its high standard of living and high religiosity, is the glaring exception. However, as Mercier and his colleagues point out, Japan and Western European have universal health care and extensive social safety nets, as opposed to the U.S. The Japanese and the Europeans know their governments will come to their aid in their hour of need. But the laissez-faire attitudes of American society make people’s futures less certain and the belief in a benevolent God more attractive.
Although many people in industrialized societies have abandoned traditional organized religion, many of them still confess to some sort of spiritual belief, such as a life-force or divine spirit that pervades nature and humanity. As societies become affluent and egalitarian, perhaps people perceive less need for a benevolent God to keep watch over us. Organized religion may no longer be needed in such societies, but it’s still human nature to perceive agency in the complexity and unpredictability of the world, even when there is none.
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It is pretty self explanatory, and in my opinion applicable in line with the philosophical nature this debate has moved into..
https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/talking-apes/201808/why-do-people-believe-in-god
extracts:
"Mercier and colleagues divide the proximate causes of religious belief into three types: cognitive, motivational, and societal. One cognitive factor is an analytical thinking style. People who tend to act according to reason rather than intuition are also less likely to believe in God. Perhaps relatedly, we also see a tendency for people who are higher in intelligence to hold agnostic or atheistic beliefs. In contrast, people who are high in what’s commonly called “emotional intelligence”—that is, the ability to easily discern the emotions and motives of others—also tend to be more religious. Of course, it’s exactly this ability to read others’ minds that led to the rise of religious belief in the first place, hundreds of thousands of years ago on the African savanna.
There are also motivational reasons for religious belief. People who are socially isolated tend to have more religious faith, perhaps allowing them to feel they’re not truly alone. Likewise, people facing death are more likely to express faith in God and an afterlife. The old saying that there are no atheists on the battlefield is no doubt true to a large extent. Furthermore, faith in God increases when situations become uncontrollable, as in the case of natural disasters. Believing that God has a plan helps people regain some sense of control, or at least of acceptance.
Another motivational factor is self-enhancement. If you live in a society where religion is prized, it’s in your best interest to say you believe, whether you truly do or not. I’m sure there are plenty of doubters in the pews at Sunday services, though none will admit it. (I was one of those for most of my teenage years.) And it’s not uncommon to hear stories of priests or pastors who’ve lost their faith but continue to preach because it’s the only way they can make a living
Finally, there are societal factors that influence the degree of religious belief within societies. As a general rule, religious belief is considerably lower in developed countries compared with the underdeveloped world. For instance, Japan has one of the highest standards of living in the world, but only 4 percent of its population claims to be religious. Traditionally, Japan was a Buddhist country, and religion played an important role in the daily lives of the Japanese until after World War II. A similar trend has occurred in Western Europe, which many social scientists now characterize as “post-Christian.”
The United States, with its high standard of living and high religiosity, is the glaring exception. However, as Mercier and his colleagues point out, Japan and Western European have universal health care and extensive social safety nets, as opposed to the U.S. The Japanese and the Europeans know their governments will come to their aid in their hour of need. But the laissez-faire attitudes of American society make people’s futures less certain and the belief in a benevolent God more attractive.
Although many people in industrialized societies have abandoned traditional organized religion, many of them still confess to some sort of spiritual belief, such as a life-force or divine spirit that pervades nature and humanity. As societies become affluent and egalitarian, perhaps people perceive less need for a benevolent God to keep watch over us. Organized religion may no longer be needed in such societies, but it’s still human nature to perceive agency in the complexity and unpredictability of the world, even when there is none.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
It is pretty self explanatory, and in my opinion applicable in line with the philosophical nature this debate has moved into..
I find my comments quite relevant to what Yazata has said, although possibly it was poorly worded. my comment thus "Does your same lack of standards, credibility and empirical evidence, also apply to those pushing conspiracies?" was in relation to seemingly taking a hard line on science, the scientific methodology and scientific evidence with regards to definitions and other aspects, yet seems to not be holding the same standards to the existence of deities and/or IDers.
Similar in many ways to how creationists react and believe themselves.
Or alternatively due to those observations, maintains the position of a fence sitter, with possibly a particular leaning he does not want revealed.
Perhaps this is due to the more philosophical nature of his post, which seems open to interpretation/s.
I certainly do have shortcomings!!!
Coming here helps me to learn how to think about all of it. The things I agree with and the things I disagree with.
I grow far more from the people I disagree with than I ever could from the people I agree with.
Coming here helps me find the weakness and error, in my own mind and heart. Which is a selfish blessing to me and possibly a blessing to the people around me.
And would you please forgive me for the ways I have offended you?
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
First of all may I thank you for giving the matter some thought and presenting your thoughts.
And thinking about it an additional consideration may be which gods do miracles...there are perhaps thousands of individual considerations to be made.
I think all we need is just one miracle claimed as such for a start attributed to any of the thousands of gods taking any form whatsoever.
For example Seti claims that his father was involved in a miracle perhaps he could present his case.
Perhaps we could sift through the various miracles required for sainthood.
Miracles seem abundant can we not find just one then note which god is responsible and how those convinced of the miracle know it is their god and why...
A miracle claim is after all a claim...a big one...so specifics and evidence of a link to a god must be mandatory else we can write it off as just more make believe.
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
Was the realisation that evolution was the mechanism for the origin of species a miracle?
Alex
Alex
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Exactly!
What does the prevalence of a belief (or lack of belief) have to do with the veracity of a Miracle of God?
Which god? The jar of spaghetti?
So do I.
That would be rather nice if you didn't already have an agenda and baggage.
You havn't offended me in the least. I was of the opinion that you were offended by me critiquing your creationists views.
Great!
Nope! No offense taken!
Please Critique Away!!!
There was a time when I did the same.
Still do sometimes.