You are a beautiful human being also, Beer!!!
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Three Claims of Uniformitarian Naturalism
- Thread starter SetiAlpha6
- Start date
You are a beautiful human being also, Beer!!!
Thanks!
But still no one cares about what you say as you make up your own rules and religion.
Write4U
Valued Senior Member
With Beer flattery will get you nowhere.......
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
I hope to have a microscope within a month, two people have each said they would give me one, so I may end up with two, but I will get a trinocular and do some photography...they are not that expensive these days.
You should get one for your kids.
You know if you go with the intelligent design notion it is hard to comprehend why there would be so much life... it is incredible the tiny world...so many different creatures.
But I need to learn biology and the ins and outs of microscopy... There is so much nature to look into I dont know how you have time to think outside natural things...particularly when there is nothing to look at...I mean imagine saying that supernatural was your hobby and some one asks to see some photos...and if you tell them about miracles everyone will say..why didnt god save everyone? Or why did he let all those children die...seems all you would be doing is making excuses for god letting thousands of humans die each month with maybe a miracle..well if you could show that it was a miracle..we all know how hard that is...you cant for example.
How come you are working on a Sunday?
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
You really don't need to read them as you won't gain anything, because you will reject anything I say...you need to understand that...But I am not offended..I post for no one else but me..posting consolidates the thoughts I have about religion in some degree...I know you can't take notice and even if you agreed 100% with me the reality is you must toe the line else you will be outcast from your group.
I am fortunate that I am a hermit so I lose no one no matter what I say...and if radicals wanted to hunt me down and kill me it really would be more time than it is worth...and who cares as clearly I am crazy.
My point with the bible is to read it and understand references to god really can be ignored on the basis that the authors all were trying to give something useful to those who got to hear what they said but as it goes with humans you won't listen to another humans views but you will listen and follow direction if from a god. That is the only reason to include a non existent god...authority...it just saves time..God said it..we obey..Alex said it..why should we listen to that old fart...the tribe leaders understood this.
Tell your kids to do something..stuff you dad..God said so..thing done...
So much of the bible is fable, make believe and some actually nonsense..but it is a beautiful thing if you understand a few things...what one must do is sift through and find the wisdom and not dwell upon the small matters...and if you find something impossible say the flood or the whale story be ready to abandon it else the defence hides the important things..even the new testament which is a total fraud has good messages..those messages came from the Romans who really although politically motivated simply wanted to educate folk to move into a future free of the really silly superstition... the Romans tried to move folk past rather barbaric approaches even by their standards..and this movement goes on even today..you know when I was young it was considered a man's right to kill his woman if he found her with another man..that was acceptable.. we have moved on if you see what I mean...
I try to make this simple and it is...there does not have to be a god or a son of God.. that is not important..what is important is the advice contained that is good advice in both the Old and the new testament... its like some structure no matter how bad is better than no structure...we all need simple rules to keep on ticking...simple mantras that keep us going..mine are..your hair is getting blacker, your legs are getting stronger, your eyes see more than before..I don't need more..but it is like a prayer..the power of prayer is not that it is heard by any Devine entity but that it is heard by you...many things can not be reached by this prayer or as I call itself talk but if one accepts that most things are within ones personal control this self talk can really help..but when it works it is not a god helping out it is you building strength to endure until you arrive at a successful outcome.
But I do say read that bible cover to cover, and after it the next book you can find for it is knowledge of everything one can learn about that will equip you for a decent life. I believe the more you learn the more humble you can become and the more humble you become the more power you will have..for everything and for satisfaction..more power than other humans,...humility is the most powereful quality as it leaves men competing as to who will be the prize fool.
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
Another thing that I thought of was maybe the key is just to continue to learn new things, read more, look at different cultures, look at history, try astronomy, try microscopy, get a chemistry set, visit a temple, visit a tomb, visit a museum, visit a meat factory, visit the stock exchange , visit the animal refuge, there are so many things to look at it would seem immoral to get tied up in just thinking about god or his obvious non existence....
most folk suffer from not thinking outside their little box..now that's not a call to do better science but a call to recognise most folk have no idea there is more world than the few blocks they move around...the universe is bigger than where you live and to where you go on holidays..much bigger...do you know how big is the biggest star? .do you know how many galaxies in the ,local group, do you know the field in Hubble Deep Sky photos...do you know how many galaxies in the universe, how many planets, how many tear drops, how many empty bellies... do you think about what is, what is not and what could be? Do you think. Do you imagine? Can you realise how much time there is and how much space and things there are a nd realise your absolute insignificance yet grasp the fact you have a moment to exists?
Or do you waste your ,I've on superstition ignorance and subservience to a non existent entity that really gives you nothing?
Think it's free but returns treasures that are priceless.
Alex
most folk suffer from not thinking outside their little box..now that's not a call to do better science but a call to recognise most folk have no idea there is more world than the few blocks they move around...the universe is bigger than where you live and to where you go on holidays..much bigger...do you know how big is the biggest star? .do you know how many galaxies in the ,local group, do you know the field in Hubble Deep Sky photos...do you know how many galaxies in the universe, how many planets, how many tear drops, how many empty bellies... do you think about what is, what is not and what could be? Do you think. Do you imagine? Can you realise how much time there is and how much space and things there are a nd realise your absolute insignificance yet grasp the fact you have a moment to exists?
Or do you waste your ,I've on superstition ignorance and subservience to a non existent entity that really gives you nothing?
Think it's free but returns treasures that are priceless.
Alex
They might help make the magical unicorns dance around your head too!
Try not to overindulge. We don't want this place overrun by beautiful people who all love each other. It would change the character of the whole place and none of us would know what to do. We'd have to think of nice things to say, or something, rather than insulting one another as is the standard practice.
He's not joking.
Yazata
Valued Senior Member
Exactly! That was my point. It's why I'm skeptical that self-styled "skeptics" will be able to "debunk" miracles quite as easily as many of them seem to believe they can.
Yazata
Valued Senior Member
It's me! ME!!!!
Seriously, the problem with Sciforums is that it's divided itself up into sides. Atheists vs theists in this philosophy of religion forum.
And the assumption seems to be that any argument for one's chosen 'side' will be a good argument just because it's being deployed against perceived enemies.
People come here to battle and seemingly for no other reason.
Intellectual life isn't a first-person-shooter video game, Alex. The goal isn't to score points by shooting down as many enemies as possible. (James' "Gish Gallop" in reverse.) The goal should be to craft good arguments and hopefully come to a deeper understanding of the subject being discussed.
When we don't know the answers to the deepest and most fundamental questions, then basic intellectual honesty would seem to require that we don't pretend that we do.
That looks like an accusation of disloyalty. If you aren't one of us, then you must be one of them. Once again, intelligent discussion isn't about sides, it's about quality arguments.
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I can't speak for others, but I would be forever grateful if you could convince theists here to follow that advice.
Didn't you know? There are two sides in Sciforums... those that think it is divided into sides, and those that don't.
That holds true for any questions, doesn't it?
Love One Another
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
Sorry for not addressing your post earlier..I wanted to think about all that you said.
That is your opinion perhaps shared by many others but I fail to see how your parrallel applies in any event because I have no experience with either "intellectual life" or " first person video games"... so whatever point you sort to make I missed.
Why? In general we get theists making unsupported claims and trying to move arguements on to understanding the mind of god I suspect because they believe waffling will somehow relieve them of the necessity to support their initial claim.
Now I really do enjoy a good discussion and indeed arguement but really in this forum one sides general behaviour makes it impossible and for me... I then treat it all as trivial fun...maybe a game...maybe your reference to a video game is you picking up on that..however really how can you be serious with folk who will not answer anything you put to them? I say their rudeness deserves being treated the way I treat them...and to suggest that we should elevate discussion to some intellectual level really requires some very serious input from folk who will not discuss a damn thing outside of the matters they have come here to raise..and I generalise I see that but really after some time I think I identify the rule rather than the exception...in any event I have no intention of treating in any way serious the conversations that speculate on what god has for breakfast unless there is a very credible presentation that the god being discussed is somehow real.
Anyone with basic intellectual honesty would not ask these "fundamental questions" or at the very least would not ask these questions with an answer backed up ready to roll.
The only folk who ask "fundamental questions" are the folk who already have an answer in mind...they are never interested to hear an answer that in effect says..there is nothing and it is all meaningless...no they will not entertain that in the following discussion but their first sentence will start..if there is a god...
And you say that we should not pretend we have answers..it is those who ask the questions that you should be looking at...
There have been thousands of gods invented and not one can be placed above the other.
It is possible to trace the development of religions where they start, and why, the history of religions and how a few gods made it to the modern era but the fact is there is not one thing to indicate that gods are more than a human invention..that is the position of honesty and to take the matter past that any claim to the contrary must be supported with extrodinary evidence...a claim that one knows the creator of the universe requires much more than an expectation that others must treat the belief as reasonable in any form at all...no... just because you believe it or it makes sense to you one need realise the fundamental questions really are not fundamental questions at all to anyone who has bothered to put in the time to place religion in some greater context ..one which those asking the questions just never ever do...if they did they would not need to ask the questions because they can only conclude gods are no more than human invention and they are doing no more than playing make believe.
It is rather easy to look at the history of religion and the thousands of invented gods and draw a reasonable conclusion that until someone offers extrodinary proof to show us something different to what the history shows us, that we need not sit on the fence...
Agnostic is in no way clever , or does it demonstrate high intellect it if anything shows an inability to make an informed decision.
Sure..but there is no quality arguement for the prospect that gods invented by humans are real...those who want a god to be real complain about quality of arguement and yet they can not establish that there is anything to discuss.
However if you wish to discuss the fundamental questions please go ahead, if you wish to discuss why fence sitting is admirable please go ahead.
I am no intellectual but I can hold my own in a discussion so if you wish to show me that religion is deserving of anything at all then go ahead.
Alex
Huh?? If it was acting through the medium of natural laws, why would it be a miracle? Maybe to some ignorant of physics perhaps, but there would always be a logical answer.
And from what I know, all sections should need to stand up to the scrutiny of any claims, under the scientific methodology.
Some at least try to employ that...others hide from it.
You see, speaking for myself, I don't really equate myself with being labeled an atheist. I simply enjoy the marvels and awesome nature of science, do my best to employ the scientific method, and as is plainly evident in many posts, readily admit [along with most other lovers of science] that science does not know everything. What I do know, is that the trillion to one chance [ in a universe of many trillions of planetary objects] of life arising from non life via chemistry, is a 100% certainty, considering the unscientific alternative.
It seems to me that the pretense is solely on the religious fanatics that we do have [three of them?] and the occasional fence sitting philosopher.
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
Well it seems you have offended him deeply as he is gone and presumably not coming back.("Hey, won't you play another "somebody done somebody wrong song")
Sorry, no offense intended. Just popped up in my mind.....
At least it's nothing that I have said.
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
What folk forget is science just builds reality.
In law there are most reasonable rules of evidence ...beyond a reasonable doubt..and..what a reasonable man would expect...and yet call upon a theist to match such simple requirements and ... well you know as well as I do...if in court the judge would get tired of " would the witness please answer the question"...
And I would love some of these folk on trial for a murder they did not commit and see how comfortable they are will heresay evidence and make believe..how would they respond to being sentencing via a testimony that the witness says no more than.." I didn't see him do it but I have faith he was responsible" .. " and please respect my faith".
Last night I was watching something on the Inquisition..I think it was Carl Sagan...and witch burning and general horrors of mad god disease...I can not see how the church should be allowed to exist..the horror in the name of god..absolute evidence of the insanity of religion...and you get sweet folk pointing out it is not about sides etc...where is their head? I must put up a neat video for you..let me look.
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
This guy has many enjoyable videos.
Did you read the rest of my post that you quoted there? The rest - especially what came after the part you quoted - isn't worthy of any comment from you? Okay, then.
Technically, this isn't the philosophy of religion forum. That kind of discussion might be better suited to the Comparative Religion forum. This one is just the plain old Religion forum. Here, things like evidence and rational argument tend to play second fiddle to things like claiming to "just know" stuff and "having faith" and the like - at least if you're on one of the "sides" you mention.
I think that, with some justification, sciforums is perceived to be a forum stacked with anti-religionists (which, incidentally, is not quite the same thing as atheists, even though many religionists don't regard the difference as important or relevant). Some religionists here seem to think that the important thing is to "witness" for their Faith and they have no real desire to engage in honest debate or discussion. They are here to tell us all what they believe, but they avoid questions that seek to uncover why they believe it. The usual pattern is not outright refusal to address such matters, but rather a pattern of pretending that such questions haven't been put to them at all.
It's almost part and parcel of religion that one is required to pretend that one has some Big Answers to Big Questions. Admitting that you don't know for sure, when it's written right there in your favorite holy book, is not the sort of thing that certain brands of religion encourage. In practice, of course, there's often some cherry picking that goes on; it's a problem that one almost inevitably faces when dealing with holy texts written 2000 years or more ago: some of the stuff in those books is absurdly and obviously wrong, in the light of current knowledge. If you insist on being the sort of religionist who holds that the holy book has all the answers, then you inevitably find yourself having to make weak excuses for all kinds of inexcusable things.