And here you are. preaching your religion again and you can't even get that right. Lol.
Three Claims of Uniformitarian Naturalism
- Thread starter SetiAlpha6
- Start date
And here you are. preaching your religion again and you can't even get that right. Lol.
So, am I correct that you are actually looking back in time millions, perhaps even billions of years?
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
You would need to be more specific for me to comment.
But say as an example my photo of the Andromeda galaxy apparently uses photons that left that gallaxy between two and two and a half million years ago...
But I digress...I need to ask have you selected your single bestest miracle?
Alex
If there was evidence, the entire scientific community would know it. You wouldn't know about that because you're a liar and a fraud whose only interest is to preach your religion.
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
You mean like all the evidence showing gods are merely a human invention?
Evidence showing the origins of the bible and the god therein?
Evidence that shows the bible is wrong suggestive that it can not be written by divine guidance.
Or do you mean lack of evidence like no evidence of a soul, or an after life, and lack for miracles.
Anyways we can forget all that as Seti tells us one miracle will get rid of atheism and his next post no doubt will set out that miracle.
Then I expect we will have our evidence.
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
Seti I thought you might like this...
Alex
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
So Seti...this is your mob...make you feel proud?
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
And you need to see this.
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
But this should give you hope..pity it is clearly made up and part of the con job.
Alex
Alex
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
Also Seti...do you think the fraud,that is the shroud of Turin,should be called such by the church ..that is should they admit it is a fraud or do you think it is best to let the lie continue rather than confuse believers.
Alex
Alex
SetiAlpha6:
On the other hand, the fact that you're unwilling to even discuss a number of important topics might go a long way towards explaining why you're stuck in the religious quagmire you find yourself in.
When you are selective in what you choose to answer - responding to what you think are the easy questions while ignoring all the hard ones - that smacks of intellectual dishonesty. To others - like myself - you appear evasive and unable to defend your own belief system effectively. But more importantly, you do yourself a disservice, because you're not willing to let your own mind consider certain questions in an honest way.
It's probably not entirely your fault. This is what religious indoctrination does to people. It can teach you to close your mind and just accept what you're told "on faith". In some cases it even teaches you that it's okay to tell lies in defence of the Faith.
Notice that I - the evil atheist - have never once questioned your right to live as you please, or your choice to believe any nonsense you want to believe. I'm not making any threats to your way of life. I'm just urging you to take a good hard look at your beliefs. If you find that threatening, it's not because of anything I did.
There are two really big problems that stick out in Duffin's attitude to miracles. The first one is exemplified by this statement:
The second problem is related to the first one. Duffin says:
I should also add that a priori, a person recovering from an illness due to natural causes is a commonly-observed occurrence, whereas there is not a single confirmed instance of a person recovering from an illness because God healed them. There are lots of unsupported beliefs that people have been healed by God, but I've discussed those in the previous paragraph.
That's a bit off-topic, though, so try this one as well: Did God want Jesus to be nailed to a cross? I think your bible says that this was God's plan. Why, then, should human beings take the blame for "rejecting" Christ by nailing him to a cross? Do we have the power to thwart God's plan? If this God existed, he could have easily prevented the crucifixion if he had wanted to - perhaps by means of one of His miracles. He could surely have taken a few moments away from curing all those ill people to pay a little attention to the plight of his Son? Why should we humans take the blame for God's plan?
You might be right about the difficulty of breaking free from a commitment to metaphysical naturalism. I don't know much about how hard that would be because I'm not especially committed to that philosophy. I'm honestly open to being convinced either way on that. I can say that, so far, nobody has shown me any evidence that convinces me that anything supernatural is real. Maybe that will happen today, or tomorrow, or some time in the future. Is so, I'll be quite happy to incorporate that into my belief system.
It seems to me that religious belief systems an be particularly difficult to break free from - some more than others. How difficult do you think it would be for you to break free of your religious beliefs? What would you require to stop believing in your religion?
Right. You're not obliged in any way to pay attention to anything that might potentially undermine your faith. Nor are you obliged to ask yourself sensible questions like how you know that what you believe is actually true. You 100% have the right to stick your head in the sand and block your ears and refuse to respond to evil atheists like me.
On the other hand, the fact that you're unwilling to even discuss a number of important topics might go a long way towards explaining why you're stuck in the religious quagmire you find yourself in.
When you are selective in what you choose to answer - responding to what you think are the easy questions while ignoring all the hard ones - that smacks of intellectual dishonesty. To others - like myself - you appear evasive and unable to defend your own belief system effectively. But more importantly, you do yourself a disservice, because you're not willing to let your own mind consider certain questions in an honest way.
It's probably not entirely your fault. This is what religious indoctrination does to people. It can teach you to close your mind and just accept what you're told "on faith". In some cases it even teaches you that it's okay to tell lies in defence of the Faith.
That sounds worrying. Would you set out to be a threat to my way of life as an atheist? In what way would you threaten my way of life, in the name of your religion? Is that kind of thing acceptable in your religion?
Notice that I - the evil atheist - have never once questioned your right to live as you please, or your choice to believe any nonsense you want to believe. I'm not making any threats to your way of life. I'm just urging you to take a good hard look at your beliefs. If you find that threatening, it's not because of anything I did.
Wow! Thanks for that. It almost deserves a thread of its own, there's so much to unpack in that article.
There are two really big problems that stick out in Duffin's attitude to miracles. The first one is exemplified by this statement:
"And I, as a non-believer am forced to say 'I don't have an explanation',"
The problem is that she is claiming that these things are miracles, while simultaneously claiming that they are unexplained. Doesn't that strike you as odd? A miracle is supposed to be an act of God. If something could be confirmed to be an act of God then we'd have an explanation, namely God Did It. An unexplained thing, on the other hand, can't be put down to an act of God, without confirming evidence. It's just an unexplained thing.
The second problem is related to the first one. Duffin says:
"To believe there is a natural explanation is a belief," she says.
"And if you can't explain it who are you to say that you belief should trump the belief of your patient, who firmly believes that God did it."
The problem here is that no atheist is saying that an unsupported belief that something has a natural cause should trump the unsupported belief that God did it. Unsupported beliefs can't be meaningfully compared. If there's evidence that God did it, then it should trump an unsupported belief that the cause was natural. Similarly, if there's evidence that the cause was natural, then it should trump an unsupported belief that the cause was God. And if there appears to be contradictory evidence showing that God did it or the cause was natural, then the task becomes weighing up the strength of the evidence on both sides to reach a reasonable conclusion."And if you can't explain it who are you to say that you belief should trump the belief of your patient, who firmly believes that God did it."
I should also add that a priori, a person recovering from an illness due to natural causes is a commonly-observed occurrence, whereas there is not a single confirmed instance of a person recovering from an illness because God healed them. There are lots of unsupported beliefs that people have been healed by God, but I've discussed those in the previous paragraph.
But if Good exists here, it's all because of God, right? Count the hits and forget the misses.
How do you know the Christian religion is the correct one? How did you rule out the possibility that Hinduism is the correct religion, say?
That's a bit off-topic, though, so try this one as well: Did God want Jesus to be nailed to a cross? I think your bible says that this was God's plan. Why, then, should human beings take the blame for "rejecting" Christ by nailing him to a cross? Do we have the power to thwart God's plan? If this God existed, he could have easily prevented the crucifixion if he had wanted to - perhaps by means of one of His miracles. He could surely have taken a few moments away from curing all those ill people to pay a little attention to the plight of his Son? Why should we humans take the blame for God's plan?
Why are we obligated to worship a God who blames us for things that are beyond our control? He might as well expect us to worship him because we can't stop the tide from coming in.
Is killing evil people good, then? I thought your God had a few things to say about killing in general, like it wasn't generally allowed. But if people are evil then it's okay, as far as your God is concerned? Or is God allowed to kill but humans aren't, or something? I guess God can have double standards, since he makes all the rules. Is that how it works?
Why would being religious be a career-limiting move if one was, say, a scientist, in your opinion? Do people have to choose between science and religion? Are the two things incompatible in your opinion? What about all the scientists who claim to be Christians? Have they all had their careers limited by some controlling atheist cabal because they dared to believe in God?
Not at all. That's one of the things that makes conversations with you theists so interesting to me. I can completely understand what's outside my narrative box and what's inside yours. I was once approximately where you are now - in that same box you're trapped in. Maybe not quite so stuck as you are, because I was always willing to be honest with myself and to take a rational approach to evaluating claims, but in the box nonetheless. Now, of course, I've seen both of the relevant "boxes". For me to think outside my box and into yours is easy. As for you, it seems to me that you won't even allow yourself to look outside your box, for real. I think you're afraid of what might be out there.
Well, before we go down that road, we need to distinguish methodological naturalism from metaphysical naturalism. Only the latter of the two is a "belief system"; the former is just a method for searching out the truth. I agree with you that it is difficult to "unlearn" things like rational, critical thinking and how to use the scientific method, but I can't really see why anybody would want to unlearn such things, what with their being so fabulously useful for getting along in the real world.
You might be right about the difficulty of breaking free from a commitment to metaphysical naturalism. I don't know much about how hard that would be because I'm not especially committed to that philosophy. I'm honestly open to being convinced either way on that. I can say that, so far, nobody has shown me any evidence that convinces me that anything supernatural is real. Maybe that will happen today, or tomorrow, or some time in the future. Is so, I'll be quite happy to incorporate that into my belief system.
It seems to me that religious belief systems an be particularly difficult to break free from - some more than others. How difficult do you think it would be for you to break free of your religious beliefs? What would you require to stop believing in your religion?
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Yes, this guy is wicked or possibly insane, or both.
And I despise him greatly, the same as you do Alex.
This is not convenient character assassination, regarding him, in my opinion, to suppress information, or to slander a good person, like is so often done here.
That usually occurs here, as an emotional response when a person feels threatened in some way. As a way to deflect or avoid the consideration of information.
I keep tabs on people like him and others, like you perhaps would, just to keep informed about the world.
There is no equivalent to him in Science.
As you know, in Science, there certainly are things like fraud, unwarranted extrapolation, the exaggeration of the promise of inflated results, especially to keep the money rolling in.
There are things like that, but I am so thankful that people like him are not allowed to exist in the Scientific community.
He needs to be arrested and thrown in jail, for fraud and theft, probably much more, IMO.
Thanks very much for the video.
And I am disgusted like you are, even ashamed, and certainly not proud.
There are many, many more like him!!!
If I may, hopefully give you a chuckle to hopefully brighten your day a bit...
Behold...
https://www.google.com/search?q=the farting preacher&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
...hope you enjoy
...just try and not laugh out loud!
I don’t want the shaking to blur any of your beautiful Work!
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I honestly do not think that it is a fraud or a hoax.
So, the rest would not follow for me, as it might for you.
I understand why you, perhaps, have to think that though.
In the reduction of reality to Naturalism, which is clearly unproven, is unfalsifiable by the Scientific Method itself, and is even unprovable, ...even one miracle cannot exist.
So, as I have witnessed and found here many times, ...a miracle does not exist, because a miracle cannot exist.
If I were to say this to my Dad, it would not change what happened to him at all.
In other words, this is not a particularly impressive or persuasive argument, in my opinion.
I am allowed to consider and seriously study the Supernatural, while the Scientist is not permitted to do that. I find Naturalism to be limiting to the overall understanding and investigation of reality.
In other words, I can appreciate and value both Naturalism and Supernaturalism in my life, and I try and balance them.
I find that to be freeing, not in any way restricting.
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He should run for GOP President.
There are a number of good reasons not to respond to questions or comments.
The questions are often excellent and appropriate, but not always.
You do the same kind of time management...
Reasons not to answer questions...
I don’t have time to answer them all, even if I wanted to.
I believe that people not only should, but have to ultimately, answer their own questions anyway.
I do not believe that I am the best person to answer every question.
I don’t always know the answer to a question.
My personal ignorance, as a limited and finite human being, does not in any way mean that an answer does not exist, as I have found to be true many times. This is also true of everyone else here.
...and more... insert your own reasons here...
Sometimes people don’t actually want the answer because it is a threat to their lifestyle, and no I am not threatening anyone by stating that.
And you do know that.
Sometimes I don’t answer a question because I am concerned that the answer might hurt a person in some way or other.
People have to decide things for themselves. I can only provide my view, I cannot provide ultimate truth.
We are all stuck in the same boat and trying to figure the Universe out.
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You do that word a great disservice as it is a word you have no concept of its meaning.
You have demonstrated time and again you are very ignorant of the world around you so your claim that nature is limiting to understanding reality is quite hilarious considering you don't know anything about nature.
And please explain how you study the Supernatural and tell us what you have learned about it?
So, you find lying, dishonesty and unethical behavior to be freeing? You appear to have the mindset of a con man. This is the damage religion has done to your mind.
No, your religion has already decided how the Universe works and that's what you believe. You're not interested in the least to figure out anything about the Universe, you could care less. Your one and only explanation to everything is, "God did it!"
We are certainly not in that boat.
Thank You so much for your many excellent comments James!!!
I don’t have time to respond to them all.
But I will try and respond to a few when I can.
I agree with some of your comments!
You Rock!!!